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Europhoenix acquire Class 91s for use overseas
- Thread starter SPADTrap
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Is there a source for this?
Not that I know of yet but sure it'll appear soon.
Entertexthere
Member
It has been said before on this thread, there is no use for a high-geared racehorse that was designed to race up the ECML with no other intentions. There is no market for these kind of locomotives in Eastern Europe (If anybody can prove me otherwise then fire away!) Also they're incredibly knackered, so I doubt they would get far in Mainland Europe.
I can't imagine what else Europhoenix will do with them? I guess the two cabs make them usable? Bulgaria took 87s so..
ExRes
Established Member
There is a report on WNXX this morning that 91120 is to transfer tomorrow to Leicester in Europhoenix livery, coincidentally there is an 0857 0Z91 Bounds Green to Leicester LIP being operated by GBRf, fact or fiction? could be a few people on the platforms at Leicester around 1215 tomorrow ....
Ooh interesting! I'm sure and I and others wait with bated breath for photos!
ExRes
Established Member
They took 47s and 87s so why wouldn't they take 91s as well? there'll be no answer of course unless Europhoenix can convince the Bulgarians that they actually do want/need them
ExRes
Established Member
Just as a thought, I'm a master at knowing nothing about the technical side of things, if we put a 91 against a 90 as a passenger loco then the 91 is obviously in the lead but a 90 is perfectly capable, what though if we were to compare the two as freight locos? how would a 91 perform given a couple of thousand tons to haul? if you needed an available electric loco for freight would a 91 be worth the effort?
59CosG95
Established Member
Are you sure that's *just* the Bulgarians? That said, they have recently opened a stretch of faster route between Septemvri and Pazardzhik - 160km/h (100mph), which is pretty fast for Bulgarian standards. Currently there are no locomotives in Bulgaria capable of such speeds (excepting the ex-UK 86s and 87s)...
87015
Established Member
Bulmarket and DB Bulgaria EAs are 100mph as are 3 uprated BDZ Cargo 46s, various Vectrons and OBB taurus.
BDZ would however struggle to get a set of 100mph stock together regardless of loco provided.
Given most Bulmarket freights are overweight for a single 86/87 and most of the BZK 87 fleet is idle due to loss of work, a single 91 seems an odd fit to me, but money talks!
BDZ would however struggle to get a set of 100mph stock together regardless of loco provided.
Given most Bulmarket freights are overweight for a single 86/87 and most of the BZK 87 fleet is idle due to loss of work, a single 91 seems an odd fit to me, but money talks!
ExRes
Established Member
Thank goodness we still have some companies in this country that are prepared to 'think outside the box', if you have assets that are at the end of their life for the purpose they were built then why not improvise? as a country we need to do it more instead of leaving things to sit idle rotting away
On the re-gearing side, could they be crossed with a re-geared 60?
The 91s are higher geared, which is why slower 90s can keep time on ECML stopping duties. I would not personally use a racehorse to do cart horse work.
fgwrich
Established Member
There is also a tweet by Richard Clinnick confirming that 91117 & 91120 have been sold by their ROSCO (Eversholt) and are both expected to be exported soon.
Would you be able to share it on here please?
59CosG95
Established Member
tbtc
Veteran Member
Good news - did a decent enough job in the UK when we needed them - but now we don't need them - I'd rather that the Bulgarians got some use out of them than some of the ideas I've seen on here, which seem to involve preserving at least twenty of them in a museum (because they all seem to have claim to one bit of supposed significance or another). Focus on the AT300s instead; they are the future.
Why not improvise?
Great idea, as long as you ignore the problems trying to "improvise" with 230s, 319s, HST and other attempts to make old stock fit for modern purpose.
I applaud the imagination on the Forum but the clear difficulties in trying to upgrade ancient trains (and the relative ease of production lines for modern ones) means there seems to be good reason to scrap old sow's ears and build brand new silk purses from scratch.
Why not improvise?
Great idea, as long as you ignore the problems trying to "improvise" with 230s, 319s, HST and other attempts to make old stock fit for modern purpose.
I applaud the imagination on the Forum but the clear difficulties in trying to upgrade ancient trains (and the relative ease of production lines for modern ones) means there seems to be good reason to scrap old sow's ears and build brand new silk purses from scratch.
jonesy3001
Established Member
which facebook group are the pictures in please?
They've been taken down now, screenshots are above.
Aictos
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 10,403
If they’re exporting Class 91s and post 14 seems to give off the impression that they’re (Bulgarians) are lacking 100mph rolling stock? Why not export the MK4s and DVTs to Bulgaria instead of scrapping them?
Just curious to see what services the 91s would be used on?
Just curious to see what services the 91s would be used on?
malc-c
Member
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 990
OK I'm going to show my ignorance here. So the 91 is intended for overseas use not the UK? If so, in what capacity would it be used as (and I'm not expert) there surely differences in design between say a 66 and 91 due to their intended use. I see someone mentioned re-gearing, presumably as there would be no need for 125mph freight trains ? - Just curious as to why they chose the 91 and what's the intended use.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Certainly would have thought 90s would be a better fit, and the GA examples will be freed up in the coming months. The only reason to select 91s instead (unless they're also significantly cheaper than 90s would be) would be if they're needed before any 90s become available.
Thank you for that - looks great in the new livery!
That does look good in that colour
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