Europhoenix acquire Class 91s for use overseas

fgwrich · 4 Oct 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
Certainly would have thought 90s would be a better fit, and the GA examples will be freed up in the coming months. The only reason to select 91s instead (unless they're also significantly cheaper than 90s would be) would be if they're needed before any 90s become available.

I believe Porterbrook may have a use lined up for their 90s, whereas Eversholt clearly doesn't have as much use for the 91s.

RailUK Forums

westcoaster · 4 Oct 2019

I spoke to a colleague the other day who said ROG were getting 2X91's for testing the new wires on the MML.

davewolves · 4 Oct 2019

as for selling Mk4 coaches with them, the problem is there long-wheelbase probably won't fit into many on their stations that are on tight curves seem to remember something about them having clearance issues on some UK lines

ainsworth74 · 4 Oct 2019

Why would they want narrow bodied non-standard coaching stock?

davewolves · 4 Oct 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Why would they want narrow bodied non-standard coaching stock?

maybe going cheap to match the 91's but i seem to remember somewhere they were going to be used for a london-blackpool service in the near future

LOL The Irony · 4 Oct 2019

davewolves said:
maybe going cheap to match the 91's but i seem to remember somewhere they were going to be used for a london-blackpool service in the near future

They've been replaced with 90's as they'll only operate at 110 and 90's are faster to 110 than 91's.

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

LOL The Irony said:
They've been replaced with 90's as they'll only operate at 110 and 90's are faster to 110 than 91's.

Not sure about that actually, certainly to at least 80 but then the 91 starts catching up

davewolves said:
as for selling Mk4 coaches with them, the problem is there long-wheelbase probably won't fit into many on their stations that are on tight curves seem to remember something about them having clearance issues on some UK lines

I thought they had plenty of ex-DB/DR 26m stuff? Surely that's got a longer wheelbase than our Mk4s?

ExRes · 4 Oct 2019

WNXX update this evening says that this is a joint venture with Voith for up to 20 Class 91s to be re-geared after export as freight hauling pairs in blunt end to blunt end formation

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

ExRes said:
WNXX update this evening says that this is a joint venture with Voith for up to 20 Class 91s to be re-geared after export as freight hauling pairs in blunt end to blunt end formation

Be quite punchy with over 12,000hp!

hwl · 4 Oct 2019

hexagon789 said:
Be quite punchy with over 12,000hp!

If they re-gear for 70mph (down from the current 140mph max) then the pairing should have roughly the same continuous tractive effort as 2.5 of the latest spec GE/EMD locos in the states at the same speed so pretty useful for freight on the continent.

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

hwl said:
If they re-gear for 70mph (down from the current 140mph max) then the pairing should have roughly the same continuous tractive effort as 2.5 of the latest spec GE/EMD locos in the states at the same speed so pretty useful for freight on the continent.

I'm not sure how fast freight can run in Bulgaria, but 100km/h max seems typical. I could see a regearing to say 120-130km/h though.

Richard Scott · 4 Oct 2019

hexagon789 said:
I'm not sure how fast freight can run in Bulgaria, but 100km/h max seems typical. I could see a regearing to say 120-130km/h though.

Having travelled on a few lines in Bulgaria even 100km/h seems optimistic!

hooverboy · 4 Oct 2019

ExRes said:
Just as a thought, I'm a master at knowing nothing about the technical side of things, if we put a 91 against a 90 as a passenger loco then the 91 is obviously in the lead but a 90 is perfectly capable, what though if we were to compare the two as freight locos? how would a 91 perform given a couple of thousand tons to haul? if you needed an available electric loco for freight would a 91 be worth the effort?

the gearing is different.
cl90's are very quick off the blocks but not so good high end.as freight loco's they are pretty well proven workhorses,and a good cl86 replacement.

no reason why cl91 coudn't be regeared. ok lower speed but extra poles in traction motors= way extra torque.
for freight use realistically only 75mph/90mph operation required.
they can pull 500t at 140mph with existing setup, so 1000t at 75mph is not that far off with new traction motors.

91108 · 4 Oct 2019

I thought they were knackered....

malc-c · 4 Oct 2019

ExRes said:
There is a report on WNXX this morning that 91120 is to transfer tomorrow to Leicester in Europhoenix livery, coincidentally there is an 0857 0Z91 Bounds Green to Leicester LIP being operated by GBRf, fact or fiction? could be a few people on the platforms at Leicester around 1215 tomorrow ....

How certain are you that this will this run....

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

Richard Scott said:
Having travelled on a few lines in Bulgaria even 100km/h seems optimistic!

Just an arbitrary figure, not knowing which lines they'll run on or anything, but some short stints of 100km/h doesn't seem too unlikely.

Besides, if it's like the 87s, they might get used on rail tours.

hooverboy said:
they can pull 500t at 140mph with existing setup, so 1000t at 75mph is not that far off with new traction motors.

Likely more as they are being used in pairs.

ExRes · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
How certain are you that this will this run....

To quote from Europhoenix facebook this evening

"Look out for them tomorrow, as they are moving from Bounds Green to Leicester!"

malc-c · 4 Oct 2019

ExRes said:
To quote from Europhoenix facebook this evening

"Look out for them tomorrow, as they are moving from Bounds Green to Leicester!"

Them... how many are there ?

Darandio · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
Them... how many are there ?

Two currently? From reading back through the thread.

Entertexthere · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
Them... how many are there ?

Just the two- 117 and 120.

SPADTrap · 4 Oct 2019

Entertexthere said:
It has been said before on this thread, there is no use for a high-geared racehorse that was designed to race up the ECML with no other intentions. There is no market for these kind of locomotives in Eastern Europe (If anybody can prove me otherwise then fire away!) Also they're incredibly knackered, so I doubt they would get far in Mainland Europe.

No market you say? Any idea what they're going to do ?

malc-c · 4 Oct 2019

Ignore my post, see there are two 91's listed in their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/EurophoenixLtd/

I must say they look great - shame they are being exported and not used in the UK

LOL The Irony · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
I must say they look great - shame they are being exported and not used in the UK

Well they will for MML testing.

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
Ignore my post, see there are two 91's listed in their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/EurophoenixLtd/

I must say they look great - shame they are being exported and not used in the UK

Not immediately, they'll be here for a bit yet. If anything it's nice to see them going on to further use, though it's a bit of a shame it has to be abroad but better than the knacker's yard.

Darandio · 4 Oct 2019

SPADTrap said:
No market you say? Any idea what they're going to do ?

Not use them as a high-geared racehorse. @Entertexthere wasn't exactly wrong.

malc-c · 4 Oct 2019

hexagon789 said:
If anything it's nice to see them going on to further use, though it's a bit of a shame it has to be abroad but better than the knacker's yard.

I agree 100% - it's so sad seeing so much stock being dragged for scrap. I know the 91's are old and progress moves on, but it seems that the old trend of "repair and making do" has long gone for "throw it away and replace with new" - Nice to see Europhoenix bucking that trend and living up to their name. These two have certainly risen from the ashes in true phoenix style.

I assume by MML that will be the testing of the new OHLE on the midland line through Bedford ? - If so I'm going to make sure I get some video of them before they depart for Belgium.

Well done Europhoenix for giving these two a further lease of life.

hexagon789 · 4 Oct 2019

malc-c said:
I assume by MML that will be the testing of the new OHLE on the midland line through Bedford ? - If so I'm going to make sure I get some video of them before they depart for Belgium.

Believe so, yes.

malc-c said:
Well done Europhoenix for giving these two a further lease of life.

Seconded, and fingers crossed for another 18.

SPADTrap · 4 Oct 2019

Darandio said:
Not use them as a high-geared racehorse. @Entertexthere wasn't exactly wrong.

I think that much was obvious and implied.

malc-c · 4 Oct 2019

Well that will keep the guys at Bound Green Depot busy then...

Hopefully, with so much interest and support Europhoenix might make that a total of 21 and keep one running (geared or not) for use on the UK rail... maybe we should start a petition / campaign

Speed43125 · 4 Oct 2019

I would remain Hopeful with Europhoenix, they seem to know what they're doing, and much like ROG seem to do surprisingly well with old traction (I mean compare their 37s with DBs experience with them).
Are all of theirs going to be exported or is there a possibility of them working freights here?
If some stay here the irony of one standing in for a 90 on a mk4 rake when they're in for maintenance would be a joy to behold.

Europhoenix acquire Class 91s for use overseas

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