Nottingham 'Bus War'

Deerfold said:

Not good and that looks like a long list, but it's about 14 buses.

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Yes, lots of lower frequency stuff and interworking.

winston270twm said:

Someone will cover them, give them chance! Yourbus only ceased trading this morning....

There's currently a load of unemployed Yourbus drivers..... so drivers shouldn't currently be an issue.

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There is the short term issue but yes, you’d expect emergency contracts to be sorted. The longer term is that invariably new contracts will be more expensive and so services may need to be trimmed.

TheGrandWazoo said:

There is the short term issue but yes, you’d expect emergency contracts to be sorted. The longer term is that invariably new contracts will be more expensive and so services may need to be trimmed.

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Surely, any re-tendered contract runs the risk of being more expensive for the council, even if they run for the full term ?

TheGrandWazoo said:

There is the short term issue but yes, you’d expect emergency contracts to be sorted. The longer term is that invariably new contracts will be more expensive and so services may need to be trimmed.

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Depends, there's the new Government pot of funding that may help balance any cost increases longer term & reverse previous route cuts around the UK.

ag51ruk said:

In separate news, Trent are launching their new ticket machines on Sunday 6th October. Had an email from them today saying the new machines can't accept Mango or Robin Hood cards so they are also leaving the old machines (presumably just the readers currently used to check out but modified to check in as well?) All seems a bit odd, will be interested to see how it works in practice.

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According to a staff notice I saw, the full init machines will be staying in place including the console itself as the drivers will have to sign in to them to allow the cards to be recognised. The init machines will also still control real time information at bus stops and on the website for now.

ag51ruk said:

In separate news, Trent are launching their new ticket machines on Sunday 6th October. Had an email from them today saying the new machines can't accept Mango or Robin Hood cards so they are also leaving the old machines (presumably just the readers currently used to check out but modified to check in as well?) All seems a bit odd, will be interested to see how it works in practice.

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They've already made the changeover at Kinchbus Loughborough. The original ticket machine remains on the bus to read "legacy" cards, but sits on the dash on the passenger door end of the new ticket machine.

ag51ruk said:

Trent are launching their new ticket machines on Sunday 6th October. Had an email from them today saying the new machines can't accept Mango or Robin Hood cards so they are also leaving the old machines

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Kinchbus have the old machines left in place and wired into the new Ticketer machines.

Yourbus have ceased trading, as of this morning Tuesday 4th October

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/live-updates-yourbus-ceases-trading-3391653


Bus operator Yourbus has announced on social media that it has ceased trading as of today.

Yourbus was founded by former Dunn-Line managing director Scott Dunn in May 2009 and has its headquarters in Heanor.

People who used its services are alarmed by the news which has left many wondering how they would be able to access credit they already have on travel cards or get to schools from some of Derbyshire's country villages.

Since late in 2016, Yourbus has been competitively operating the same routes as Arriva Derby in some areas of the city.

• 11:10

13:09KEY EVENT
Arriva offers Yourbus ticket exchange

Bus company Arriva has pledged to support Yourbus customers. Its statement reads: “Following the sad news this morning that Yourbus has ceased trading in Derby, Arriva is pledging to support affected customers by announcing the launch of a ticket exchange service in Derby Bus Station. On Saturday 5th, Monday 7th, and Tuesday 8th October, from 8am until 6pm, Arriva staff will be on hand at the Bus Station to swap any valid Yourbus Genie cards, weekly and 4 weekly tickets for a voucher that will provide a week’s unlimited travel on board all Arriva Derby services.” Details are available here: www.arrivabus.co.uk/yourbusderby

13:01KEY EVENT
School head teacher says Yourbus collapse an unexpected challenge
Head teacher of Queen Elizabeth’s Grammar School in Ashbourne, Scott Garrity, says the Yourbus collapse has been an “unexpected challenge”, but staff have been working to ensure the students are not stranded.

According to reports on social media, children were dropped off by bus drivers this morning, but told they would not be collected.
Mr Garrity said: “It’s all in hand and alternative arrangements have been made to get students home today and for Monday to and from school.

“New arrangements have been made by Derbyshire County Council going forward so we do not expect any gaps in provision.”


Queen Elizabeth's Grammar School (Image: Graham Hobster)
12:42KEY EVENT
How will children get home from school?
Work is underway to make sure that school children are able to get home from lessons later this afternoon after Derbyshire bus operator Yourbus announced it had ceased trading. You can read about the plans here: https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/what-council-says-getting-school-3392666

11:51KEY EVENT
Yourbus employee speaks out
A Yourbus engineer, who gave his name as Bill, said: “We had absolutely no idea. I’ve worked here for four days and three hours. I left my other job, a good job, as this is three miles from home. We found out this morning. I’m gutted. I thought it (the company) had potential.” He said the site employs around 100 people.


Yourbus head office in Heanor
11:35
Buses parked at Yourbus HQ
Buses that would normally be busily transporting passengers around Derbyshire are empty and parked up at Yourbus headquarters in Heanor.


Buses parked up at Yourbus headquarters
11:10KEY EVENT
We speak to Yourbus HQ
We called Yourbus and the person we spoke to initially said that there was no official comment. A second individual said she was one of the management team and that they were in the office ‘sorting out drivers and staff’. She refused to offer any more details and there is no official comment beyond this morning’s Facebook post and the signs at bus stations and bus stops.

10:54
Genie card passengers
A screen at Derby bus station says that Genie card passengers will get updates. It is unclear who will provide these updates.


An update from Yourbus at Derby bus station
10:28
Messages of support from customers
Former Yourbus customers have been commenting on the failed company’s Facebook page. One said: “I just wanted to say a big big thank you to all the drivers from the Y5 service. You are all fantastic and some have become friends over the past few years. I hope you all find good jobs and wish you all well. I will really miss you.” Another said: “Omg so sorry for all the drivers especially our lovely Martin. So many people rely on our local bus service.”

09:54
Statement from Derby City Council
Derby City Council leader Chris Poulter said that the council had no prior warning of problems at Yourbus. He said: “For us, there will inevitably be a loss of income from the fact that the company had a stand in Derby bus station. I understand the drivers were told not to come in this morning but that some went in anyway and took out buses on their normal run so people would not be inconvenienced. I think it will affect Derbyshire County Council more as it uses Yourbus for school runs.”


09:51KEY EVENT
Arriva accepting Yourbus tickets in Derby

09:38KEY EVENT
Trent Barton accepting Yourbus tickets
Bus company Trent Barton has said that it will be accepting “all valid Yourbus tickets and products today to help get customers where they need to be. Just show our drivers your product or ticket and hop on”

G0ORC said:

09:54
Statement from Derby City Council
Derby City Council leader Chris Poulter said that the council had no prior warning of problems at Yourbus. He said: “For us, there will inevitably be a loss of income from the fact that the company had a stand in Derby bus station. I understand the drivers were told not to come in this morning but that some went in anyway and took out buses on their normal run so people would not be inconvenienced. I think it will affect Derbyshire County Council more as it uses Yourbus for school runs.”

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'We're going to lose some stand income.' Nice to know the local Councillors have the general public's interest at heart!

Mitch in Notts said:

High Peak might consider the Matlock/Ashbourne but it's a fair way from Dove Holes.

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If High Peak does decide to take on the Matlock/Ashbourne services, could they somehow interwork them with the Transpeak service (i.e. a few short workings from Dove Holes to Matlock as positioning moves) or even an extra working on 442 to Ashbourne then onto the Ashbourne workings before running back as a 442?

Derbyshire County Council state on Twitter that ALL Yourbus routes in the county resume on Monday with existing timetables and new operators. Hulleys have stated they have the 11 on Sundays & 110-111 routes. Be interesting to see who gets the others. Wonder what Nottinghamshire will do with the Y10 at Eastwood?
https://twitter.com/Derbyshirecc/status/1180112071511465985

winston270twm said:

Depends, there's the new Government pot of funding that may help balance any cost increases longer term & reverse previous route cuts around the UK.

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That's not going to be available in the short term (and devil's in the detail)

Derbyshire CC have clarified their original statement to say that Y1, Y3 & Y5 will not be covered as they already have alternatives with other operators..

https://twitter.com/Derbyshirecc/status/1180118668258217984

The list of replacement operators from DCC website. Awkward how pdf is set out, though!

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Just watch TrentBarton cut some frequencies now, particularly on H1 and IF.

There's no way the current levels of service will be maintained now Yourbus have gone.

winterbanker said:

The list of replacement operators from DCC website. Awkward how pdf is set out, though!

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Soon replaced then! Most within 3 days....

Recently they took on many school services along with new 68 plate coaches. In fact they just took two 19 plate coaches!
However, majority contract companies that big cannot be sustained as evidenced by Doyles and Gills! Especially they invested heavily on contracted routes, its really strange to see 18/67/17/66 plates on contracted routes. I think when they lost the 822, 1 and Y36 it was clear that something was going on.

Attached is the DCC replacement list in a readily readable format

Yourbus came unstuck. They could have complemented the other operators in the area. All they ever did was pick up fights with other operators on the main routes. The minute they took on Arriva in Derby i knew it was not going to end well. You need a network not nit picking routes. The less i say about the management the better.

Mwanesh said:

Yourbus came unstuck. They could have complemented the other operators in the area. All they ever did was pick up fights with other operators on the main routes. The minute they took on Arriva in Derby i knew it was not going to end well. You need a network not nit picking routes. The less i say about the management the better.

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Perfectly true Mwanesh. Instead of creating their own network, they simply cherry picked successful routes from other operators, principally TrentBarton, Arriva Derby and NCT and operated five minutes in front of them in order to cream off the other other operators' profit margin on the route hoping that the other operators would then pull out. However the operators they took on were the big boys in the area and were well able to withstand Yourbus's assault on their routes, indeed TB particularly fought them really hard.

I can't speak for the Nottingham area, but certainly in the Derby area where they competed with TB and Arriva there was a heavy brand loyalty to the existing operator and Yourbus frequently ran with very few passengers, even at peak times. They couldn't be bothered to operate most routes in the evenings but on those routes where they tried to compete off-peak they ran virtually empty, especially on the H1 where TB pushed them very hard. Its not a cheap business running virtually empty new buses around, as they found out.

As usual in these cases though its the employees that have paid for Yourbus's management style and policies with their jobs. Existing operators may take up a bit of the slack, indeed TB have already invited YourBus drivers to apply for jobs with them and I'm sure some of the maintenance staff will also find work with TB and Arriva who are perennially short of staff. But the fact is many administrative staff are now out of work with little chance of employment in the short term.

I'm certainly not sorry they've gone under, but sad for their staff. Predatory operators like them almost inevitably live by the sword and die by the sword. I'm just amazed that they've lasted this long, many of us locally have been saying that it was clearly obvious they were not doing well, and haven't been for many years. Then every time we said that they would take on more contract routes and another batch of new(ish) vehicles would appear. We all wondered, and are still wondering, just who was bankrolling them.

The one good thing in all of this is that at least YourBus's demise will reduce the congestion that frequently happens in Derby's Bus Station. It was due to the council accepting YourBus into the bus station (.....maybe they didn't have a choice, under competition rules?) that meant it was operating all day at well over its planned capacity with the resultant gridlock.

Were they still in the process of taking NatEx to court?

Trentbarton have outstations in Ashbourne and Matlock.

NorthernSpirit said:

If High Peak does decide to take on the Matlock/Ashbourne services, could they somehow interwork them with the Transpeak service (i.e. a few short workings from Dove Holes to Matlock as positioning moves) or even an extra working on 442 to Ashbourne then onto the Ashbourne workings before running back as a 442?

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Simon75 said:

Trentbarton have outstations in Ashbourne and Matlock.

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Sorry no. TB have not had an outstation at Ashbourne for many a long year (maybe the 70s or 80s when it was just TRENT) although I'm not really up to date after the Sixes timetable change, I believe the outstation, if you could call it that, at Matlock consists of one vehicle (the "Little Sixes" Solo) which lays over overnight.

There are no TB facilities of any sort at either place.

G0ORC said:

Sorry no. TB have not had an outstation at Ashbourne for many a long year (maybe the 70s or 80s when it was just TRENT) although I'm not really up to date after the Sixes timetable change, I believe the outstation, if you could call it that, at Matlock consists of one vehicle (the "Little Sixes" Solo) which lays over overnight.

There are no TB facilities of any sort at either place.

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Trent Barton operate the SWIFT from some sort of base 'layover' at Ashbourne and the SIXES have a presence at Matlock. That is what an outstation is (the original poster didn't mention any facilities) - just a corner of a yard usually with no facilities, though I believe Trents original 'outstation' at Bradwell (ex North Western) many years ago had a building until they moved the vehicle(s) to a car park at Hope.

G0ORC said:

The one good thing in all of this is that at least YourBus's demise will reduce the congestion that frequently happens in Derby's Bus Station. It was due to the council accepting YourBus into the bus station (.....maybe they didn't have a choice, under competition rules?) that meant it was operating all day at well over its planned capacity with the resultant gridlock.

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Given the comments from the local Councillor the council were less interested in congestion and more interested in getting the fees for use of the bus station!

SCH117X said:

Attached is the DCC replacement list in a readily readable formatView attachment 69046

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Thank you, the original was really doing my head in!

G0ORC said:

Sorry no. TB have not had an outstation at Ashbourne for many a long year (maybe the 70s or 80s when it was just TRENT) although I'm not really up to date after the Sixes timetable change, I believe the outstation, if you could call it that, at Matlock consists of one vehicle (the "Little Sixes" Solo) which lays over overnight.

There are no TB facilities of any sort at either place.

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Don’t think that’s right. The old Trent Ashbourne depot was subdivided and they kept the left hand third for 3 buses on the 107 until the early 2000s (I think).

Sure they had parking for two Swift vehicles until recently.

cnjb8 said:

Were they still in the process of taking NatEx to court?

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I understand that court case fell apart.

G0ORC said:

I believe the outstation, if you could call it that, at Matlock consists of one vehicle (the "Little Sixes" Solo) which lays over overnight.

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They keep at least 3 vehicles at Matlock overnight. I often walk past as they are putting them to bed.