This service really needs looking at. It is a daily occurrence now (Probably multiple times a day) for the service to terminate a 350 full of passengers at South Parkway on platform 4 and send them over to platform 2 for the next service on to Lime Strert. Today in the evening peak the next service was a single Northern 150 which was already full. Not everyone could fit on so loads of people left behind got on the following service which was a short formed EMR single 158 which was again already full. The Euston to Lime Street service may be convenient for LNWR stock utilisation but it certainly isn't convenient for their passengers or those of the other TOCs passing through South Parkway.
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LNWR service from Liverpool to Birmingham and London.
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Presumably because:
- It is a very long walk, and there are 3 lifts or a large number of stairs to negotiate.
- Trains don't go to Liverpool Lime Street but nearby Liverpool Central
- The service from platform 6 is less frequent, making it more likely that they will have to wait longer
Finally, London Northwestern Railway might have put ticket acceptance in place with Northern, Transport for Wales and East Midlands Trains but not Merseyrail.
Good point. Once you take out the LNWR services that keep getting cancelled there are still 5 an hour from platform 2. On the downside 4 of those are grouped relatively close together.
That would be an idea, they'd have to make it all the way to Liverpool first though. Ha ha.
I guess crewing issues could come in to it but I would say the fact it is a four hour journey from Euston to Lime Street stopping at some ridiculous places like Canley. Why does it stop at Canley and not West Allerton or Mossley Hill. (I'm not seriously asking for it to stop at those stations of course. Ha ha).
Impacted on me the other month. Morning meeting in Liverpool, PM in Birmingham. Waiting at Lime Street, incoming train only about 15 minutes late. Then... my train is cancelled! Look online and it's showing as due to leave Liverpool South Parkway on time, with just Lime Street cancelled.
Now I'm not saying that it's wrong to turn a late service into an on time one, but the very least they could have let people at Lime Street know in plenty of time so they can get to South Parkway by other means.
But generally speaking yes it's bad. I can't see how having all these late trains is better for Birmingham New Street than having a bit of platform maths to do.
Put it back how it was, and do as London Midland asked years ago and extend the London-Crewe to Liverpool as well.
jamesst
Member
Personally (&I'm not saying its right) but I'd definitely recommend going for Merseyrail from platform 6 in this circumstance. Every 15 mins,the service originates from Hunts Cross one station back so its practically a given you'll get a seat and Liverpool Lime Street/ Liverpool Central are fairly close.
Just my personal opinion though!
It does seem to take ages though, especially if you just missed the previous train...
Shambolic since it was extended to Euston (always an issue between Birmingham and Euston which then impacts on this service). Plus its still usually the same carriages as before.
Absolutely ruined a perfectly good service (on the whole) and for no good reason.
Absolutely ruined a perfectly good service (on the whole) and for no good reason.
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50010 Monarch
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It was obvious that combining New St to Euston with New St to Liverpool was never going to work. The obsession with not having services start & terminate at New St has led to absolute carnage.
Bevan Price
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Was the change a TOC suggestion - or a DfT brainwave ??
A combination I expect. Changes were made to the plans to placate Stoke, who weren't happy about the changes proposed. Perhaps that mandated some of the other things. I read that the TOC has said that some of the changes are "trying new things".
The original TOC ask for extension back in the London Midland days was simply to extend the semi-fast Crewe to London to Liverpool, to run in addition to the two Birmingham - Liverpool services. That wouldn't have presented any issue, but the government said no at the time.
That of course wouldn't have done anything about platform occupancy at New Street.
Does anyone have a genuine view on New Street capacity? Whenever I've been there most of the platforms are empty
The original TOC ask for extension back in the London Midland days was simply to extend the semi-fast Crewe to London to Liverpool, to run in addition to the two Birmingham - Liverpool services. That wouldn't have presented any issue, but the government said no at the time.
That of course wouldn't have done anything about platform occupancy at New Street.
Does anyone have a genuine view on New Street capacity? Whenever I've been there most of the platforms are empty
londonmidland
Established Member
New Street can look empty at times if you arrive at 'certain times' although that is definitely not the case if you were to stay for a while and look how fast the platforms get occupied.
Another issue is the very low permitted line speed trains are allowed to travel at when arriving/departing the station. 10 miles per hour is it? So it can take quite long for a train to clear that block of the line, which has a snowball effect on other services if that service is late arriving or leaving.
The Planner
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Put it this way, it runs more trains than it was ever planned to. The re-signalling in 2022 has had to jump through a lot of hoops to keep it at a level playing field due to it not having AWS or overlaps.
You cannot reoccupy a platform in the same direction for 3 minutes, in the opposite direction it tends to be 4 minutes, 5 in some cases. Platform end margin is arriving 1 minute before a departure or 3 minutes after one. You have to have a 3 minute dwell in most cases.
It is like knitting fog sometimes and there is a team that does nothing else but platform the station. Download the Timetable Planning Rules to see the details.
You cannot reoccupy a platform in the same direction for 3 minutes, in the opposite direction it tends to be 4 minutes, 5 in some cases. Platform end margin is arriving 1 minute before a departure or 3 minutes after one. You have to have a 3 minute dwell in most cases.
It is like knitting fog sometimes and there is a team that does nothing else but platform the station. Download the Timetable Planning Rules to see the details.
Sweetjesus
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Are two train services arriving into/departing from the same platform at New Street allowed? I don't see this occurring when I'm there.
The Planner
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You cannot arrive from the opposite directions at the same time, you need a 4 minute margin.
Because it's a Liverpool to Birmingham service joined up with a Birmingham to Northampton stopping service joined up with a Northampton to London semi-fast service.
RealTrains07
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firstly, canley needs the Birmingham services. Second, its a WMT station. West Allerton is not. One of the reasons why the service is done like this is most likely for pure convenience as changing trains is not something customers want and LNR probably have lost customers to cross country or virgin who need to travel further than Birmingham in the past??
RealTrains07
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The liverpool service isnt a lone wolf. Rugeley and crewe suffer just as much
NewSt
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Shrewsbury services quite often terminate there.
There seems to be more pressure to do something about Rugeley service though and they should both just be changed back.
The Lime Street-Euston via New Street is the ultimate creating a problem where there wasn't one. If anything just extend it to Birmingham International.
Bletchleyite
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To be fair, this is barely any further from the concourse at Lime St than Manchester Picc platforms 13/14 are from that concourse
Old Yard Dog
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As I found out to my cost recently and mentioned on another thread, there may also be a toilet tank capacity problem on journeys as long and as slow as the Euston to Liverpool stopper
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/important-stations-with-no-toilets.191824/#post-4194869
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/important-stations-with-no-toilets.191824/#post-4194869
It's a lot further if you struggle to walk far, though. There are inclines, several roads to cross, and no lift or travellator access. If your onward train is from Liverpool Lime Street, or if you're being met there, or for any reason you need to be back there, then going to Liverpool Central instead isn't really a substitute. Customers could have been advised to change at Moorfields and go up in the lifts from Liverpool Lime Street low level though provided they're working. Crucially, WMT need to ensure that ticket acceptance is at least requested with Merseyrail and the others in all cases of one of their trains turning short in this way.To be fair, this is barely any further from the concourse at Lime St than Manchester Picc platforms 13/14 are from that concourse
That's not the length of the journey per se it's the length of time between tanking. Partly due to the late running all the time units go long periods without tanking.
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