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Looking down on people paying to travel 1st class: Why?

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trainophile

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #14 originally in this thread.

It’s called entitlement?

I don't quite understand why people have a downer on those who choose to pay for 1st Class travel, it's an option open to everyone but some prefer to spend their money in other ways. How is it different from choosing to eat in Wetherspoons rather than some swanky Michelin starred restaurant? How is it different from driving a car that gets you around rather than showing off your Jaguar?
 
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I don't quite understand why people have a downer on those who choose to pay for 1st Class travel, it's an option open to everyone but some prefer to spend their money in other ways. How is it different from choosing to eat in Wetherspoons rather than some swanky Michelin starred restaurant? How is it different from driving a car that gets you around rather than showing off your Jaguar?

The issue is that in all the examples you quote the option is not realistically available to everyone due to financial constraints.
 

43096

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I don't quite understand why people have a downer on those who choose to pay for 1st Class travel, it's an option open to everyone but some prefer to spend their money in other ways. How is it different from choosing to eat in Wetherspoons rather than some swanky Michelin starred restaurant? How is it different from driving a car that gets you around rather than showing off your Jaguar?
It’s jealousy, pure and simple. “If I can’t have/afford it, why should you have it.”
 

dk1

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It’s jealousy, pure and simple. “If I can’t have/afford it, why should you have it.”
My sentiments exactly. Just sour grapes. Some people shop at Lidl or Aldi but I prefer M&S or Sainsburys but it's up to me where I spend my money if I can afford it.
 

DarloRich

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Exactly my point, yet you don't get sarcasm directed at those who can afford to patronise expensive restaurants, or run big cars.

It’s jealousy, pure and simple. “If I can’t have/afford it, why should you have it.”

My sentiments exactly. Just sour grapes. Some people shop at Lidl or Aldi but I prefer M&S or Sainsburys but it's up to me where I spend my money if I can afford it.

I disagree but do not feel I am able to say more.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's a free country. What's the worst that could happen?

We'll rip him to bits? :D

(Much as I respect @DarloRich he does, on these forums, often act with somewhat of a "reverse snobbery" approach, not really understanding that some of us travel First Class from time to time not to be a snob or to wave our fat wallets around, but because we find that some of its features, such as legroom, seat width, seats that are both window and aisle, a less crowded and quieter environment, inclusive food/drinks or whatever are additional features that we consider to be worth the extra cost on that occasion)
 

dk1

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We'll rip him to bits? :D

(Much as I respect @DarloRich he does, on these forums, often act with somewhat of a "reverse snobbery" approach, not really understanding that some of us travel First Class from time to time not to be a snob or to wave our fat wallets around, but because we find that some of its features, such as legroom, seat width, seats that are both window and aisle, a less crowded and quieter environment, inclusive food/drinks or whatever are additional features that we consider to be worth the extra cost on that occasion)
Each to their own I say & if you can afford something nicer in life then go for it. I apologise to nobody for what I've worked for. They either like it or lump it.
 

DarloRich

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We'll rip him to bits? :D

(Much as I respect @DarloRich he does, on these forums, often act with somewhat of a "reverse snobbery" approach, not really understanding that some of us travel First Class from time to time not to be a snob or to wave our fat wallets around, but because we find that some of its features, such as legroom, seat width, seats that are both window and aisle, a less crowded and quieter environment, inclusive food/drinks or whatever are additional features that we consider to be worth the extra cost on that occasion)

That is a misrepresentation of my view. There is much I would like to say but do not feel I can beyond the fact that I have absolutely no issue with people paying a full first class fare.
 
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trainophile

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Fair enough I am too stupid to expect people to say what they mean.

Other people seemed to get it :s .

I just booked Plymouth to Newton Abbot (37 minutes) for a midweek evening journey in less than three weeks time. Advance 1st was 75p dearer than Standard (with railcard). Nothing to do with snobbery, just I know GWR will be rammed at that time of day, and at least we should be able to access our reserved seats.
 

Spamcan81

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Now I have a senior railcard I will book first class wherever possible for long journeys as there can be sone very attractive advance fares when my "old fart's discount" is applied. More legroom, slightly wider seats and less crowded. Sometimes the difference in fare is minimal. One one trip from Stevenage to Darlington the discounted advance 1st fare was just £2 more than standard.
 

Failed Unit

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I have in the past found 1st class fares cheaper than standard. I have also found the difference so small £5 ish that you think the “free” food is worth paying for.
 

centraltrains

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Exactly my point, yet you don't get sarcasm directed at those who can afford to patronise expensive restaurants, or run big cars.

There definitely is, maybe it's just not as vocalized or behind the back.

I think trains have this problem more so than other examples because trains tend not to be a choice compared to eating out or owning a car, and capacity is so limited away - they feel it should be a matter of equality of who gets the seats rather than how much you can pay.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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I don't think many people resent first class passengers who are paying their own way.

There used to be resentment when people on the public payroll travelled in the big seats but these day most public sector organisations expect their employees to travel in standard class. Even M.Ps can only claim for standard class fares these days.
 

al78

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Exactly my point, yet you don't get sarcasm directed at those who can afford to patronise expensive restaurants, or run big cars.

You can get negative stereotypes directed at people who run big cars, e.g. BMW drivers are poor drivers is a classic example. Big cars = higher fuel consumption = more pollution + space consumption so there is the elevated externalised cost aspect as well. I wasn't aware 1st class passengers were looked down on, if anything on this forum it is the other way around (plenty of phrases like "great unwashed" used on here).

It is interesting why some people like to play the jealousy card whenever they get called out on certain activities which are classed as luxury/expensive, but may have increased externalised costs associated with them. You know nothing about me and my wealth, and are not in a position to claim I cannot afford 1st class travel or a luxury car. Such an attitude is just another flavour of snobbery, as though owning a luxury item somehow makes you a better person. The fact is, a prat with money is a wealthy prat, but they are still a prat, money can't buy you a decent personality.
 

bionic

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Try getting on to a forum such as this in China, North Korea etc etc. Never mind being able to comment at all.

I love the fact that someone can make a valid point about the UK and, rather than just debating the point, the China and North Korea card gets played. Just because both of those countries have extremely controlling and repressive regimes does not prove anything about the extent of freedom within the UK. Of course the UK is far less controlled than those countries but comparing the UK to these extremes is not helpful and misses the point of the original remark.

Train fares are much cheaper in China and North Korea than they are in the UK, shall I use that as the basis of an argument relating to UK train fares?
 

PR1Berske

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This discussion could only happen on a UK forum! Nobody obsesses over class quite like the British.
 

ComUtoR

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Train fares are much cheaper in China and North Korea than they are in the UK, shall I use that as the basis of an argument relating to UK train fares?

China is often compared to the UK because their railway works clock perfect and is never late or has any defects or crew problems. Germany often gets a mention as their railway seems to be much better than ours, their maps are better, and their numbering/line names are far superior. Their track is smoother too.
 

ExRes

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Try getting on to a forum such as this in China, North Korea etc etc. Never mind being able to comment at all.

I think you'll find that dk1 said "it's a free country", China and North Korea weren't in this country last time I looked at an atlas

I really don't know what the problem is here, if someone wants to pay for 1st Class then what's wrong with that? I wouldn't shop in Aldi or Lidl unless I was desperately short of money, nothing to do with status, class, snobbery or anything else, I just find their offerings dreadful compared with other shops, if I want a joint of meat I want a decent, edible and enjoyable joint not second choice, if I want to travel the length of the country in 1st rather than standard I'll choose the most comfortable way I can afford
 

nlogax

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There's a difference between spending all your money traveling in first class for every journey and just using it for either as an occasional treat or when you want a bit of additional legroom or peace and quiet - and of course using advanced fares or weekend first if it's available. I can't really afford to be in the former category, and being in the latter probably makes me appreciate first class a little more.
 

jfowkes

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I think there is a distinction between choice of supermarket, choice of car and choice to travel in 1st class.

By and large, person A's choice to shop in Aldi and person B's choice to shop in Waitrose do not really affect each other and have about the same level of negative externalities.
If person A has a Zoe and person B has a X5, you can make the argument that person B is taking up more space and producing more pollution and that some criticism on that basis is justified.
If person A is in standard and person B is in 1st, you can make the argument that person B is encouraging TOCs to allocate 1st class space that could be used for standard class space on a capacity-limited train/line/service.
 

Failed Unit

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I think some of the resentment comes from when the balance of the stock is wrong.

8 car pendo’s - 4 first and 4 standard? This was always wrong especially as people struggled to find reasonably priced APs despite 1st running nearly empty. Virgin converted coaches in the end but you can see why the resentment exists when standard is rammed and first have 5 people per coach.

I similar issue existed on GTR where first kept the same number of seats (nearly empty) and standard had significant reductions in seats when the 700s were introduced. I think if the seats were actually used the standard passengers would not be as annoyed.

the various east coast operators seem to do the yield management well.

I used to use weekend first but it is now too expensive on the routes I use for an impulse buy. I often find that buying at the time the difference is less than just buying the ticket.

Don’t get me started on seat frog.
 

trainophile

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I have just got off a VT where I had a reservation in coach A, the quiet coach. This seems like a reasonable compromise - at least it avoids the hen parties and screaming kids.

But tomorrow I will be in 1st on a TPE as it’s a long way from Liverpool to Scarborough, and I do like a cup of tea without having to pay £3 for it.

While there I will be looking for reduced sandwiches to eat in my hotel room, and buying 59p instant porridge pots for breakfast rather than pay a fiver for a hotel one. The savings virtually cover the difference between an Advance 1st and Standard.

Surely it boils down to each to their own.
 

AM9

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In general, those that want to pay more for a (notionally) better product or service should be free to do so. That includes higher classes of aircraft accomodation and larger cabins in ships.
There are cases where a finite availability or capacity of a product or service should rule against the offer to buy more or 'exclusivity'. They might include the provision of more spacious first class accommodation in trains whilst they are running at or above capacity on routes where there is no option to increase that capacity further. This is becoming true in the South-East, where it might be profitable for some TOCs to extract more revenue from wealthier passengers at the expense of the comfort or even the ability to get on trains for the rest. There is a general trend for some heavily loaded services into London to be standard class only. This might spread to other cities.
There are other things that irrespective of the ability to pay more, the law tries to ensure equal access. How would we feel if when a severe drought occurs, those who had a higher grade of water service weren't restericted and could water their lawns at will whilst those on the normal service queued up at the stand-pipe for their drinking water.
 

trainophile

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I am losing the gist of the discussion here :s .

While there IS 1st Class and people (not just the well heeled) are prepared to pay for it, what is the problem?
 
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