LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

3973EXL · 4 Oct 2019

5Q82 Merchant Park - Doncaster
800208
5Q83 Doncaster - Acton
5X85 Acton - Eastleigh
800109 800208

Also for the record 801209 moved to Eastleigh 27/09

RailUK Forums

Marton · 4 Oct 2019

Failed Unit said:
They both have the balance wrong. Azuma from memory has a single pair of 2. The mk4s were about right. Hopefully this is easy to fix.

Agree.

route101 said:
Will try and try first class . Anybody like having a stranger opposite on the single pair of seats ?

Happy to sit opposite someone. Probably easier in first though.

trebor79 said:
No. It's awkward, particularly when eating. Had that experience on a Virgin train from Penrith to Euston.

I have had some remarkable conversations when eating. After all eating is a social activity.

Fuzzytop · 4 Oct 2019

Failed Unit said:
They both have the balance wrong. Azuma from memory has a single pair of 2. The mk4s were about right. Hopefully this is easy to fix.

One pair in a five-car (D8/9 or K8/9), two in a nine-car (L26/27, K8/9).

Perfectly fine when travelling alone as the singles feel spacious to me - so much so, it masks the fact that there are far fewer first class seats than on the Mk4s. Dreadful for couples though! Especially annoying that the east side with all the good views is the side with all the single seats...

trebor79 · 4 Oct 2019

Are the single seats any good for working on the move? Quite often the table and the seat in front conspire to make it impossible to sensibly use a laptop.

Failed Unit · 5 Oct 2019

Fuzzytop said:
One pair in a five-car (D8/9 or K8/9), two in a nine-car (L26/27, K8/9).

Perfectly fine when travelling alone as the singles feel spacious to me - so much so, it masks the fact that there are far fewer first class seats than on the Mk4s. Dreadful for couples though! Especially annoying that the east side with all the good views is the side with all the single seats...

I bet if they charge. The pair will be £10 per seat extra on the reservation. I was put into 2x singles and needed to move 2 a table of 4. May 5 pairs per coach would be better.

westv · 5 Oct 2019

hooverboy said:
I would say precisely the same about an airline who didn't offer reclining seats etc on a flight over 3 hours(choose your poison...ryanair,easyjet etc etc all guilty as charged)

Do you not think reclining your seat on a plane with limited seat pitch is rather anti social?
Sorry to go off topic!

Rob F · 5 Oct 2019

Marton said:
I have had some remarkable conversations when eating. After all eating is a social activity.

I hope you weren’t talking with your mouth full!!

47271 · 5 Oct 2019

Older couples are a huge section of LNER's First Class market, so I don't understand why they've provided so few facing pairs.

I know that a lot of business people prefer single seats, but I don't get on with them at all. I find the table too small for my laptop and other stuff and I don't like being hemmed in by a seat back. I'd rather take the chance of sitting opposite someone else.

Can I recommend seat K30 to anyone else who thinks the same way? This is a single that backs on to the partition between First and Standard, so a nice smooth ride mid coach, but is part of a full size table with two seats opposite. The only slight drawback is that they turn the service trolleys on your left hand side, but in terms of workspace and room to move around it's great.

Meerkat · 5 Oct 2019

Is it a given that couple want to face each other?
Both might not like going backwards. Sitting next to each other means they can read/watch the same media and can talk to each other more quietly so fewer people can hear, and can cuddle up/fall asleep on each other if they get on that well.

ainsworth74 · 5 Oct 2019

47271 said:
Older couples are a huge section of LNER's First Class market, so I don't understand why they've provided so few facing pairs.

Of course it wasn't LNER's decision as to the seating configuration. That was set by the DfT a very long time ago...

That being said I do agree that there aren't enough pairs of seats in 1st class. I still think that the Mk4s had just about the right mix of pairs to singles. Possibly one or two pairs too many but just about right. On the other hand I think the blend of airline to table seats in standard class is just about spot on with the Azuma's.

In terms of "fixing" the layout in 1st class I can't imagine that practically it would be particularly difficult but contractually I'm sure it'll be an utter nightmare and will no doubt have a large number of £££ attached to it.

47271 · 5 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Is it a given that couple want to face each other?

I agree, but neither is it a given that a couple don't want to face each other, which is what the Azuma layout more or less implies.

ainsworth74 said:
Of course it wasn't LNER's decision as to the seating configuration. That was set by the DfT a very long time ago...

That being said I do agree that there aren't enough pairs of seats in 1st class. I still think that the Mk4s had just about the right mix of pairs to singles. Possibly one or two pairs too many but just about right. On the other hand I think the blend of airline to table seats in standard class is just about spot on with the Azuma's.

In terms of "fixing" the layout in 1st class I can't imagine that practically it would be particularly difficult but contractually I'm sure it'll be an utter nightmare and will no doubt have a large number of £££ attached to it.

Ah, yes, of course, the DfT.

I'm not suggesting they change it until it's due for a major refurb, I've found a way of making the layout work for me.

At least Azuma First is worth paying the extra for because of the decent service you get on LNER - not something you can say for GWR.

jimm · 6 Oct 2019

47271 said:
Older couples are a huge section of LNER's First Class market, so I don't understand why they've provided so few facing pairs.

I know that a lot of business people prefer single seats.

You answered your own question.

Business travellers on top-whack first class fares in the peak periods earn LNER (and GWR) lots of money, As you say, many of them like to have their own private space to work in (like airline business and first class or first class on European high-speed trains), so that's what is provided for them. Other people travelling first class off-peak on advances bring in rather less money, so don't count so much when it comes to deciding on the seating layout.

FGW/GWR's 2014 refurbishment of first class on HSTs had much the same arrangement on that side of the first class coaches as the 80x family and FGW decided on that seating layout, not the DfT.

Those single seats have always filled up fast on GW peak trains ever since they first appeared, in the same way that many standard class passengers make a beeline for the airline seats in preference to playing footsie with strangers under a table, so don't expect them to disappear any time soon.

47271 · 6 Oct 2019

jimm said:
You answered your own question.

Business travellers on top-whack first class fares in the peak periods earn LNER (and GWR) lots of money, As you say, many of them like to have their own private space to work in (like airline business and first class or first class on European high-speed trains), so that's what is provided for them. Other people travelling first class off-peak on advances bring in rather less money, so don't count so much when it comes to deciding on the seating layout.

FGW/GWR's 2014 refurbishment of first class on HSTs had much the same arrangement on that side of the first class coaches as the 80x family and FGW decided on that seating layout, not the DfT.

Those single seats have always filled up fast on GW peak trains ever since they first appeared, in the same way that many standard class passengers make a beeline for the airline seats in preference to playing footsie with strangers under a table, so don't expect them to disappear any time soon.

Well, I'm one business user paying plenty who doesn't want a single seat with a tiny shelf for a table. I've found a way round it on LNER so it's fine.

My workround on GWR is not to bother with First Class at all.

As for facing pairs generally, my view from observing LNER First, mainly on Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness services, is that a better balance would have been to have one more facing pair per coach. I realise however that the stock has to be used throughout the operator's network and what I see on the way to Scotland might not be right for Leeds, York or Newcastle.

WAB · 6 Oct 2019

And so it continues. 18.45 Leeds to Kings X 2x5 vice 9, therefore, reservation changes and no catering in rear 5 coaches. How utterly predictable.

Failed Unit · 6 Oct 2019

LatymerKing said:
And so it continues. 18.45 Leeds to Kings X 2x5 vice 9, therefore, reservation changes and no catering in rear 5 coaches. How utterly predictable.

Definitely was expecting to have only 1 set with catering even when the trains are diagrammed for 2 sets. At least the number of seats is about the same.
I really don’t get the half sets. Lincoln sort of makes sense and they are at the moment self contained (or easy to make them). But I understand that they don’t plan on splitting or joining in service so a standard fleet must be better.

most operators I have experienced that use 2x sets with no corridor connection make the experience worse for the people in the wrong set.

JonathanH · 6 Oct 2019

Failed Unit said:
But I understand that they don’t plan on splitting or joining in service so a standard fleet must be better.

How are they going to increase the service to Harrogate in December without splitting at Leeds? The timetabling allows for the 5-car 800/2 to leave an 801/1 at Leeds to couple to the next incoming 800/2 unit from Harrogate and go to London.

Running a 9-car to Harrogate during the off-peak would just be wasteful.

Failed Unit · 6 Oct 2019

JonathanH said:
How are they going to increase the service to Harrogate in December without splitting at Leeds? The timetabling allows for the 5-car 800/2 to leave an 801/1 at Leeds to couple to the next incoming 800/2 unit from Harrogate and go to London.

Running a 9-car to Harrogate during the off-peak would just be wasteful.

More trains?

It is possible that it may work. But I will be avoiding services with 2x 5 cars where possible. I am the type of person that always gets stuck in the set with no catering.

Harrogate isn’t that far to consider it wasteful. But it does offer a more consistent service.

route101 · 6 Oct 2019

Had my first Azuma ride yesterday on the 1650 from Newcastle to Edinburgh via Carlisle . Train was very quiet , may of been due to the service starting from York . I was sat in coach B in airline seat , seats firm , not any different to GWR ones . Diesel engine was noticeable in coach B .
Faster up the WCML , buffet was open but cash only . Seat layout fine mixture of airline and table . Is there an unreserved coach on these ?

What is the max speed on the WCML on the 800s?

TT-ONR-NRN · 6 Oct 2019

route101 said:
Had my first Azuma ride yesterday on the 1650 from Newcastle to Edinburgh via Carlisle . Train was very quiet , may of been due to the service starting from York . I was sat in coach B in airline seat , seats firm , not any different to GWR ones . Diesel engine was noticeable in coach B .
Faster up the WCML , buffet was open but cash only . Seat layout fine mixture of airline and table . Is there an unreserved coach on these ?

What is the max speed on the WCML on the 800s?

110mph no tilt

route101 · 6 Oct 2019

TheAlbanach_ said:
Had my first Azuma experience, got to admit I really like the seats (I was in first class). But I'm the odd one that I hated the seats on the HSTs and MKIVs. Only complaint is the lighting is just too bright, bit that's common on all new stock these days, not too good for headache sufferers. Not a bad train, to me anyway. Just need a wee bit more luggage space.

Yes, the lighting was too bright , couldnt even see much outside

route101 · 6 Oct 2019

trebor79 said:
No. It's awkward, particularly when eating. Had that experience on a Virgin train from Penrith to Euston.

I suppose its like eating in a restaurant with a stranger . I appreciate its opposite as your facing someone. I guess if theirs space someone would move giving you both space .

47271 · 6 Oct 2019

route101 said:
Yes, the lighting was too bright , couldnt even see much outside

It's not just the excessive brightness. If they would even put a bit of colour into the light, like VTEC did with the down lighters in their HST and mk3 refurb, then it would take the edge off it a bit. Even a tiny tweak would take us away from dentists surgery conditions.

hooverboy · 6 Oct 2019

westv said:
Do you not think reclining your seat on a plane with limited seat pitch is rather anti social?
Sorry to go off topic!

on a short hop 1-2hrs it is bearable to have upright, but any more than that is very uncomfortable.

deltic08 · 6 Oct 2019

JonathanH said:
How are they going to increase the service to Harrogate in December without splitting at Leeds? The timetabling allows for the 5-car 800/2 to leave an 801/1 at Leeds to couple to the next incoming 800/2 unit from Harrogate and go to London.

Running a 9-car to Harrogate during the off-peak would just be wasteful.

Having had a recent meeting with LNER about the through trains to Harrogate, it is their intention to run 9-car sets although running 2x5-cars without splitting in Leeds is not ruled out.

Harbon 1 · 7 Oct 2019

I must admit, I’m more impressed with the LNER IETs over the GWR ones, though I’ve only had one trip on the latter.

After a few ‘positioning moves’ while chasing the 91s, I don’t find them that bad to travel on.

Interior is more welcoming and warm than the GWR kind, and the seats feel slightly comfier.

Seats if you’re sat upright are quite comfortable, and plenty of leg room, though this is for a max 50 minute journey, and don’t sit on your wallet!

Luggage space as other posters have mentioned seems too low, though I rarely travel on that route with more than a small bag.

My only complaint is the air con seems far to warm most of the time.

My dad on the other hand who travels regularly in first, and has recently gone from 9 car to 2x5, has mentioned that the ride is awful at the front of the rear unit, but fine at the very front.

I think after they bed in they will be a good replacement, however for LNER, it’s worrying how many 5 cars have been ordered. I understand it for the Lincoln services and those extending further than Leeds, but they aren’t the bulk of the trains run.

Seehof · 7 Oct 2019

Is it the intention to run full length trains to Aberdeen etc or will they be 5 coach trains having left the other half at Edinburgh? Thanks

ainsworth74 · 7 Oct 2019

Harbon 1 said:
I think after they bed in they will be a good replacement, however for LNER, it’s worrying how many 5 cars have been ordered. I understand it for the Lincoln services and those extending further than Leeds, but they aren’t the bulk of the trains run.

Before this stared LNER had, roughly, fourteen HSTs and thirty one Mk4 sets. They have had ordered for them thirteen 9-car bi-modes and thirty 9-car EMUs. I.e. basically their entire existing fleet has been replaced one for one with full length trains. On top of that they then have a further ten 5-car bi-modes and twelve 5-car EMUs. Considering that we have a near one for one replacement of full length trains with full length trains I'm not sure there is much reason to worry. Remember that we haven't seen any of the 9-car 801 EMUs in service yet so that's another thirty full length trains we're still waiting for.

ainsworth74 · 7 Oct 2019

Seehof said:
Is it the intention to run full length trains to Aberdeen etc or will they be 5 coach trains having left the other half at Edinburgh? Thanks

I can't lay my hand on it right now but I'm sure I've read somewhere that LNER have confirmed that they'll be 9-car trains to Aberdeen and Inverness.

Failed Unit · 7 Oct 2019

ainsworth74 said:
I can't lay my hand on it right now but I'm sure I've read somewhere that LNER have confirmed that they'll be 9-car trains to Aberdeen and Inverness.

Loadings on the Inverness train are too high for 5-car. Not sure about the Aberdeen on. It arrives full at Edinburgh but not sure how much of the loading is “170” avoiding.

westv · 7 Oct 2019

I can imagine having a 2x5 coach service may cause a problem for last minute arrivals at Kings X if they expect to jump on the first door but their booked seats are in the second train!

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