LNWR service from Liverpool to Birmingham and London.

RealTrains07 · 6 Oct 2019

I presume none of you have checked RTT recently??

from December liverpool is losing a london service monday - saturday so their will be 1 tph to new street and 1tph to euston unlike the 2 euston services now

going back to liverpool however is the same as now

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GW43125 · 6 Oct 2019

RealTrains07 said:
from December liverpool is losing a london service monday - saturday so their will be 1 tph to new street and 1tph to euston unlike the 2 euston services now

Nope, that's just how the attachment is shown-they still run though, portion working with the Crewe service from New St.

RealTrains07 · 6 Oct 2019

GW43125 said:
Nope, that's just how the attachment is shown-they still run though, portion working with the Crewe service from New St.

Well unfortunately its gonna get worse from December as well they will finally be introducing Sunday through services to london

fowler9 · 6 Oct 2019

RealTrains07 said:
I presume none of you have checked RTT recently??

from December liverpool is losing a london service monday - saturday so their will be 1 tph to new street and 1tph to euston unlike the 2 euston services now

going back to liverpool however is the same as now

It's only 1 tph now to Euston and it is carnage.

frodshamfella · 7 Oct 2019

Having the Liverpool to Birmingham service running through to International is good, because of airport access at Birmingham. Met someone at Runcorn Saturday night who had come off a flight at Birmingham so this is handy, all be it the train arrived 30 mins late.. However I'd say terminate the service there, going onwards to London Euston has made the service much more delayed and unreliable.

Aictos · 7 Oct 2019

8J said:
There's a lot of issues at LNWR at the moment mainly with crewing problems. The turnover of staff is quite high at some depots.

I think a traincrew depot at Lime Street with stabling and tanking done at Edge Hill would be a good start.

Why not tank if need be at Liverpool Lime Street? Yes this depends on infrastructure but Peterborough, Kings Cross etc all have the facility to do this so why not a major terminating station such as Lime Street?

londonmidland · 7 Oct 2019

11:15 Euston to Crewe and Rugeley Trent Valley terminating short at Northampton due to lack of train crew.

No mention as to whether the service restarts at Northampton or what to do once arrived there.

All in all it’s quite a poor experience.

ah-media · 7 Oct 2019

In recent weeks I have been unfortunate enough to have to take the 0705 service from Hemel to Liv Lime St.

Often it is 7 or 8 mins late at Hemel after being stuck behind a late running Freightliner coming off the North London Line.

At least 3 occasions we have run fast from Coventry to New Street because it was running over 10 minutes late and the knock on effect would be crippling heading on the second part of the journey.

It is even worse on the way back, to the point where I will now get a Virgin service to Watford and double back to save time and frustration!

ElectroSoldier · 7 Oct 2019

The only way to remove the problem is the give Liverpool another Limited stop Intercity service.
Its not like there isnt call for it, and its been asked for for years but they do nothing about it, so these services are being over stretched, and the result is trying to decide whether to nip down to Merseyrail or slug it ou on 2 and hope you fit in on the next one.

RealTrains07 · 7 Oct 2019

ElectroSoldier said:
The only way to remove the problem is the give Liverpool another Limited stop Intercity service.
Its not like there isnt call for it, and its been asked for for years but they do nothing about it, so these services are being over stretched, and the result is trying to decide whether to nip down to Merseyrail or slug it ou on 2 and hope you fit in on the next one.

It was suggested by LM before they lost the west midland franchise to extend the trent valley service to liverpool

6Gman · 7 Oct 2019

ElectroSoldier said:
The only way to remove the problem is the give Liverpool another Limited stop Intercity service.
Its not like there isnt call for it, and its been asked for for years but they do nothing about it, so these services are being over stretched, and the result is trying to decide whether to nip down to Merseyrail or slug it ou on 2 and hope you fit in on the next one.

Surely the problem is delay being transferred across the system. (A delay at Rugby leads to a train being turned short at South Parkway.)

Not sure how adding trains to the timetable helps with that even if stock and traincrew could be supplied?

6Gman · 7 Oct 2019

frodshamfella said:
Having the Liverpool to Birmingham service running through to International is good, because of airport access at Birmingham. Met someone at Runcorn Saturday night who had come off a flight at Birmingham so this is handy, all be it the train arrived 30 mins late.. However I'd say terminate the service there, going onwards to London Euston has made the service much more delayed and unreliable.

Surely there's no path available? (Unless you're suggesting the New Street - Northampton - Euston should start from International ... )

gazzaa2 · 7 Oct 2019

frodshamfella said:
Having the Liverpool to Birmingham service running through to International is good, because of airport access at Birmingham. Met someone at Runcorn Saturday night who had come off a flight at Birmingham so this is handy, all be it the train arrived 30 mins late.. However I'd say terminate the service there, going onwards to London Euston has made the service much more delayed and unreliable.

I actually commute typically once a fortnight to Birmingham International from the Liverpool train and while in theory it's great that there's a direct service, I preferred it before because it was easier to change at New Street coming back for a train onto Liverpool that was usually running okay, rather than having the direct service cancelled or heavily delayed.

I've often just took another train to New Street and then a train to Crewe/Warrington or Stafford and changed from there.

Fawkes Cat · 8 Oct 2019

Starmill said:
It's a lot further if you struggle to walk far, though. There are inclines, several roads to cross, and no lift or travellator access.

Where 'several' = 2 (Ranelagh Street and Lime Street).

I'm certainly not going to argue that changing Central - Lime Street is as convenient as an in-station change, and the lie of the land and state of the pavements certainly doesn't help, but let's not overstate the difficulty.

Camden · 8 Oct 2019

Difficult enough I'd say. And unpleasant. Certainly limiting the crossings to two would mean taking the most unpleasant route. Tramps, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics, smells, and not a walk you'd want to do at night either.

I'd still go rather than miss a train, but a Lime Street - Central interchange is not an acceptable substitute for a train that turns up on time, especially a long distance one.

ElectroSoldier · 8 Oct 2019

Camden said:
Difficult enough I'd say. And unpleasant. Certainly limiting the crossings to two would mean taking the most unpleasant route. Tramps, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics, smells, and not a walk you'd want to do at night either.

I'd still go rather than miss a train, but a Lime Street - Central interchange is not an acceptable substitute for a train that turns up on time, especially a long distance one.

You would have made a fantastic photographer the way you enlarge everything.

Its a 5 minute walk from Central station to Lime street, you cross Ranelagh street then along to Great Charlotte street then over Lime street to the station. Its a very well trodden walk and none of anything you mentioned at all!

And while we're talking about unless you plan on using Lime street as an interchange to go somewhere up the Chat moss line there is no need to double back to Lime street at all.
roughtly 12.5% us users use the station as an interchange, and a rather large portion of them use the Merseyrail link, either going over the the Wirral or stopping at Central to use the Northern line.

Bletchleyite · 8 Oct 2019

ElectroSoldier said:
The only way to remove the problem is the give Liverpool another Limited stop Intercity service.
Its not like there isnt call for it, and its been asked for for years but they do nothing about it, so these services are being over stretched, and the result is trying to decide whether to nip down to Merseyrail or slug it ou on 2 and hope you fit in on the next one.

It's getting one, it is part of First-Trenitalia's franchise bid for the former VTWC service.

Bletchleyite · 8 Oct 2019

Camden said:
Difficult enough I'd say. And unpleasant. Certainly limiting the crossings to two would mean taking the most unpleasant route. Tramps, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics, smells, and not a walk you'd want to do at night either.

It might not be a nice walk, but it is not one where you really need to worry for your safety. I've done it hundreds of times at all times of day and night, it takes about 6-7 minutes if that, and I have never had anyone even attempt to speak to me while doing it.

It's not an awful lot worse than walking to P13/14 at Manc Picc from the main trainshed.

Statto · 8 Oct 2019

You don't even have to get off the train at Central, if you want, you can stay on the train to Moorfields, get the Wirral line to Lime Street.

Fawkes Cat · 8 Oct 2019

Camden said:
Difficult enough I'd say. And unpleasant. Certainly limiting the crossings to two would mean taking the most unpleasant route. Tramps, beggars, drug addicts, alcoholics, smells, and not a walk you'd want to do at night either.

Get a grip. From Central, one walks straight forward past Sainsbury's to the pedestrian lights on Ranelagh Street. Cross and turn right past some rather noisy pubs whose clientele are inside (Liverpool Council enforces their rule against street drinking). Left into Great Charlotte Street. You are on the same side of the road as the bus stops, and as the arcade into Boots back door. You will find homeless people sleeping in the arcade. Bear right without crossing the road past more bus stops and (another) Sainsbury's. Now take the pedestrian crossing over Lime Street and walk across the plaza to the station.

I do this walk each way as part of my work commute three times a week. I have never felt intimidated or unsafe. If it's safe enough to queue for a bus, it's even safer if you are on the move through it.

Is it the nicest walk in Liverpool? No.

Am I constantly dodging low life? No.

Would I advise someone at South Parkway to avoid travelling via Central because of the walk? No.

Camden · 8 Oct 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
Get a grip. From Central, one walks straight forward past Sainsbury's to the pedestrian lights on Ranelagh Street. Cross and turn right past some rather noisy pubs whose clientele are inside (Liverpool Council enforces their rule against street drinking). Left into Great Charlotte Street. You are on the same side of the road as the bus stops, and as the arcade into Boots back door. You will find homeless people sleeping in the arcade. Bear right without crossing the road past more bus stops and (another) Sainsbury's. Now take the pedestrian crossing over Lime Street and walk across the plaza to the station.

I do this walk each way as part of my work commute three times a week. I have never felt intimidated or unsafe. If it's safe enough to queue for a bus, it's even safer if you are on the move through it.

Is it the nicest walk in Liverpool? No.

Am I constantly dodging low life? No.

Would I advise someone at South Parkway to avoid travelling via Central because of the walk? No.

Don't speak to me like that.

FYI I last did the walk last night at 9pm.

I was accosted for change before I even descended the steps at Lime Street (and verbally abused for ignoring), crossed the road to Sainsbury's, walked past the smelly bus stops where more down and outs were hanging around, round the bend to see two people dossing in sleeping bags in an alcove (again the place smelling of pee), again asked for money by other tramps/alkies/druggies, walked past the entrance to a car park where there were three such individuals engaged in furtive meeting, one of who glowered at me making it clear I'm to carry on walking. Past the various pubs of inequity containing various middle aged/old men crooning their addled hearts out (into the street), finally crossing the street to central, past two final down and outs (and amid a cacophany of druggie shouting coming from further down the street at the Church Street intersection).

Rancid, is what I'd call that, and embarrassed is what you should be.

There's no way I'd suggest anyone walk that route, if they had a choice. And if it was an old person I would actually tell them not to, whether that offends your inverse snobbery or not.

Concentrate your anger on those who have the power to clean your city up, not someone who simply has eyes, ears and a working sense of smell.

ElectroSoldier · 8 Oct 2019

Ive done the walk myself, I think youre exaggerating however

So youre talking about making the walk from Lime street to Central there...
So why is it a bad thing to change at Liverpool South station?

Camden · 8 Oct 2019

ElectroSoldier said:
Ive done the walk myself, I think youre exaggerating however

A blow by blow, factual account of my 7 minute walk cannot be called an exaggeration.

frodshamfella · 8 Oct 2019

6Gman said:
Surely there's no path available? (Unless you're suggesting the New Street - Northampton - Euston should start from International ... )

I believe that the Liverpool services terminate at International now, if they aren't going through to Euston, could be wrong.

frodshamfella · 8 Oct 2019

gazzaa2 said:
I actually commute typically once a fortnight to Birmingham International from the Liverpool train and while in theory it's great that there's a direct service, I preferred it before because it was easier to change at New Street coming back for a train onto Liverpool that was usually running okay, rather than having the direct service cancelled or heavily delayed.

I've often just took another train to New Street and then a train to Crewe/Warrington or Stafford and changed from there.

Yeah understand you, I was just picking up someone at Runcorn who had got off a Delhi flight at Birmingham, so not having to change at New Street with luggage is a bonus.

frodshamfella · 8 Oct 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
Where 'several' = 2 (Ranelagh Street and Lime Street).

I'm certainly not going to argue that changing Central - Lime Street is as convenient as an in-station change, and the lie of the land and state of the pavements certainly doesn't help, but let's not overstate the difficulty.

I do it quite often, id rather do that than take the Merseyrail one stop.

Bletchleyite · 8 Oct 2019

frodshamfella said:
I do it quite often, id rather do that than take the Merseyrail one stop.

Almost nobody uses the Loop to connect between the Northern Line and Lime St. They walk. It's quicker and more reliable and while it's not a nice walk it's not the worst in the world. I feel safer[1] doing that than walking among the spiceheads at Piccadilly Gardens at t'other end of Chat Moss.

[1] Declaration: 6' 4" and rugby player build, but I do also like to be streetwise and avoid confrontations, and obviously height doesn't do a lot against someone with a knife.

Bletchleyite · 8 Oct 2019

frodshamfella said:
Yeah understand you, I was just picking up someone at Runcorn who had got off a Delhi flight at Birmingham, so not having to change at New Street with luggage is a bonus.

It's fine these days, there are lifts and escalators. I used to avoid it but I now deliberately change there to use the extensive catering offering.

Bletchleyite · 8 Oct 2019

Camden said:
A blow by blow, factual account of my 7 minute walk cannot be called an exaggeration.

It's not nice, but you basically described a walk through just about every British city centre at the moment. It's not great fun, but people are not getting beaten up and having their wallets nicked at the rate of one an hour, not even at 11pm.

If you fear that, better use the Loop instead (though the very quiet nature of the stations off-peak may also put the nerves up some) - but you are really not likely to come to actual harm.

ivanhoe · 8 Oct 2019

Camden said:
Don't speak to me like that.

FYI I last did the walk last night at 9pm.

I was accosted for change before I even descended the steps at Lime Street (and verbally abused for ignoring), crossed the road to Sainsbury's, walked past the smelly bus stops where more down and outs were hanging around, round the bend to see two people dossing in sleeping bags in an alcove (again the place smelling of pee), again asked for money by other tramps/alkies/druggies, walked past the entrance to a car park where there were three such individuals engaged in furtive meeting, one of who glowered at me making it clear I'm to carry on walking. Past the various pubs of inequity containing various middle aged/old men crooning their addled hearts out (into the street), finally crossing the street to central, past two final down and outs (and amid a cacophany of druggie shouting coming from further down the street at the Church Street intersection).

Rancid, is what I'd call that, and embarrassed is what you should be.

There's no way I'd suggest anyone walk that route, if they had a choice. And if it was an old person I would actually tell them not to, whether that offends your inverse snobbery or not.

Concentrate your anger on those who have the power to clean your city up, not someone who simply has eyes, ears and a working sense of smell.

It’s amazing how a discussion about LNWR service Liverpool to London, becomes an exaggerated rant by somebody who’s had a bad day. I suspect that you rarely frequent, Coopers, Globe or the Midland pubs but they have always been full of middle aged men and women who strangely like to enjoy themselves. It’s a city that attracts a lot of young people who also like to enjoy themselves. Now as for the LNWR service, it could do better and I seriously hope it does. It gives people with limited budgets, opportunities to get to London, who currently may have to use the National Express service. Mind you, once you step out of Euston, it’s really terrific, isn’t it? Not a vagrant, druggy or inebriated over 40/person in sight!

LNWR service from Liverpool to Birmingham and London.

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