But Shotts was essentially a fill-in scheme joining other electrified lines. EGIP included Queen Street and its tunnel, and Winchburgh.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Most/least successful recent large infrastructure project?
- Thread starter nuneatonmark
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Failed Unit
Established Member
Many would say Edinburgh. From the airport the bus is quicker off peak for example. But over budget and not delivered what it should.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The construction of the Edinburgh tram system and the contractual relations supporting that construction were not easy or cheap!
eastdyke
Established Member
And if no tenants had ever 'signed on the dotted line' I have to ask would the money (spent on the project) have been wisely invested?
Brings to mind an old favourite of mine:
'The operation was successful but the patient died'
Agreed - the only negative was there was quite along snagging period with some of the platforms virtually complete but not signed off for quite a while.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Luckily they did! The originally proposed tenants went bust before completion and it was easier to finish the job than stop, so we did. The entire building was commissioned and ready to go on schedule and ( just) under budget.
Separating the delivery from the actual performance of the system though, the Edinburgh tram has been extremely popular and beaten all demand forecasts.
there have been opportunities though, and I can’t be bothered digging through, but I seem to recall a few posts saying that some of the operators on the west coast weren’t happy with some alternative suggestions to get it put in. If you look long term, the disruption has been worse on the WCML because of not taking a short term hit of blocking it and getting it done.
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 15,934
Unless its a christmas or bank holiday we get knocked back on taking all line blocks of the WCML, operators refuse the access. Watford isnt a weekend job.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Agreed - but, again, very popular with the customers and the politicos in particular. Could there be a trend here?
(Scotland route are also very happy)
But less happy are those whose projects were deferred/cancelled because EGIP/GW/NW electrification projects stole their budget.
The railway is a zero-sum game, most of the time.
Well we can start with the obvious one, Edinburgh
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/edinburgh-tram-developments.69463/page-18#post-2041389
Well I'm glad you had all the building services up and running. You probably had the roof on as well. A railway viaduct with no track (and hence no signalling) installed on it is obviously not yet a railway viaduct. There are no rails. The clue is in the name
For the best "it's not my department" claim about a project I always like this one. Nothing to do with railways though
DarloRich
Veteran Member
You are talking like politicians care about other parts of the country. They got the money. That is all that matters
But if the scope of your project is to only construct a viaduct then you have delivered your project. You can commission that viaduct to receive the rails later. Perhaps we should look at programme management
And GW included Box Tunnel, Severn Tunnel, etc etc. Guess which was the more expensive?
My point is that every electrification scheme has some big issues to deal with. Some more than others. But at the end of the day EGIP was late, over budget and expensive, as was GWEP. So why is the former thought of as a success and the latter a failure?
thenorthern
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 May 2013
- Messages
- 4,114
Sure
Edinburgh Tram - Over budget and late, yes passenger numbers are good but the network is still small.
Midland Metro - For many years was not getting anywhere near as many passengers as projected and was costing much more to run that it was expected to.
Sheffield Supertram - at first was losing massive amounts of money and still not doing as well as it was expected to.
Merseytram, Leeds Supertram, Bristol Supertram and others canceled after millions spent on them.
Old Yard Dog
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Aug 2011
- Messages
- 1,482
The Ordsall chord has been disappointing because the powers-that-be have given TPE paths to run Leeds - Huddersfield - Manchester Airport trains via Victoria before allocating paths to Calder Valley trains. Huddersfield - Manchester Airport trains do not need to run via Victoria. Calder Valley trains do and should have been given first dibs.
ohgoditsjames
Member
Electrification of the GWL has to be one of the biggest failures. It has caused the cancellation of multiple electrification schemes and ended the “electric spine” aspiration. Not only that but it’s jeopardised any possibility of future electrification.
I’m pretty sure at one point the business case for the electrification of the MML was stronger than the GWL and the MML was due to be electrified before the GWL yet it somehow leap frogged it.
I’m pretty sure at one point the business case for the electrification of the MML was stronger than the GWL and the MML was due to be electrified before the GWL yet it somehow leap frogged it.
That’s correct, based on early estimates (which were woefully wrong, because they weren’t done properly) but the GWML fleet needed replacing, whilst the MML fleet didn’t. Hence the former came first.
Deepgreen
Established Member
This may be too small to qualify, but Redhill's platform 0 has been very poor. It is badly-designed, and was the result of a half-baked scheme which could have achieved so much more if it had been funded properly. The signalling and junction alterations to permit all platforms to be through ones could not be afforded so we now have a sub-optimal layout, with platform 1 a 10 car bay. The new platform itself has a ridiculously short canopy, and, for the want of a simple 2/3car stopping board, all GWR trains stop at the GTR 4/5car board, outside the canopy and a long way from the exit, meaning passengers get wet, have to walk far further than necessary and are more likely to miss connections. There is also not a single poster frame on the platform, so posters are taped to cabinets, etc!
The train indicators on p0 are placed in very poor positions such that passengers are simply not provided with the information they need where they need it. For example, passengers coming up the stairs to the platform are presented with a screen listing all trains from the whole station, when what they really need is confirmation of the next train from p0. I've witnessed people trying to establish from the long list of all departures if the GWR train they can see way down the platform is the one they want, only for it to leave without them! Conversely, passengers arriving by train at the platform have to go towards the exit and turn round (it faces away from the platform) to read that same screen for their connections, causing obstructions in the process!
Some GWR trains are diagrammed to use platform 0, even though nothing is scheduled at platform 1 at those times, meaning a needless change of platform for the many people needing to change trains to those using p2 (to London), when a cross-platform interchange would be easily achievable.
In short, the under-funded project has been designed purely from an operator's (and an 'armchair' operator at that!) viewpoint, rather than including the passengers' needs properly. When I've raised the issues with GTR, they aren't interested even in the tiny things like the 2/3car stop board, let alone the bigger design failings. GWR simply say it's GTR's station and they can do nothing, which is clearly nonsense as they could easily ask GTR to consider improvements which would cost almost nothing. Privatised silo thinking has meant GTR has looked after itself and ignored the 'irritant' of GWR!
The train indicators on p0 are placed in very poor positions such that passengers are simply not provided with the information they need where they need it. For example, passengers coming up the stairs to the platform are presented with a screen listing all trains from the whole station, when what they really need is confirmation of the next train from p0. I've witnessed people trying to establish from the long list of all departures if the GWR train they can see way down the platform is the one they want, only for it to leave without them! Conversely, passengers arriving by train at the platform have to go towards the exit and turn round (it faces away from the platform) to read that same screen for their connections, causing obstructions in the process!
Some GWR trains are diagrammed to use platform 0, even though nothing is scheduled at platform 1 at those times, meaning a needless change of platform for the many people needing to change trains to those using p2 (to London), when a cross-platform interchange would be easily achievable.
In short, the under-funded project has been designed purely from an operator's (and an 'armchair' operator at that!) viewpoint, rather than including the passengers' needs properly. When I've raised the issues with GTR, they aren't interested even in the tiny things like the 2/3car stop board, let alone the bigger design failings. GWR simply say it's GTR's station and they can do nothing, which is clearly nonsense as they could easily ask GTR to consider improvements which would cost almost nothing. Privatised silo thinking has meant GTR has looked after itself and ignored the 'irritant' of GWR!
theageofthetra
On Moderation
- Joined
- 27 May 2012
- Messages
- 3,504
Can't think of anything worse than the Brandenburg Airport fiasco in Berlin!
work-traveller
Member
- Joined
- 18 May 2012
- Messages
- 411
East West Rail Phase 1 (Oxford - Bicester - Chiltern Line - Marylebone) has been a success for passenger options, flexibility and capacity.
Project Evergreen Phase 1 (Birmingham - Bicester - Marylebone) has also been a success for passenger options, flexibility and capacity.
Proof House Junction (Birmingham New Street North/East approach) has been a success for capacity and operational resilience.
Project Evergreen Phase 1 (Birmingham - Bicester - Marylebone) has also been a success for passenger options, flexibility and capacity.
Proof House Junction (Birmingham New Street North/East approach) has been a success for capacity and operational resilience.
telstarbox
Established Member
How about Tanners Hill Flydown (near St Johns station)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Johns_railway_station#Layout
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Johns_railway_station#Layout
Polish airports funded by the EU?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nd-build-ghost-airports-idUSKBN0JS06K20141214
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
New Shortlands area dive under was an excellent and timely project. (must have been some ex BR South Eastern engineers around
) - helped Eurostar but left great benefits ?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Reminds me of that airport in Spain which was built but never opened (featured on an old episode of Top Gear)
It was indeed. Fortunately people have forgotten about the big cable cut on day 1 of the blockade, the overrun at the end, it being rather more than the original budget, and a year late!
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The Ordsall Chord was brought in to relieve congestion across the Piccadilly station throat. That was the whole point of it. And to that aim, it has worked. There is less congestion across the throat.
The downside is that the Castlefield corridor doesn't quite work, but some of the operational decisions seem odd. If they used platforms 1 and 3 at Oxford Road it'd help, and if 13/14 were split in half it'd help with crowding.
Last edited:
theageofthetra
On Moderation
- Joined
- 27 May 2012
- Messages
- 3,504
Just as we subsidised in Spain too. Remember some of those white elephants all too well.
tsr
Established Member
Quite so. Probably the one route in the south-east which has always been least-suited for electrification. It freezes up numerous times even during a mild winter, the third rail is so badly installed that it occasionally falls over (literally - last occasion was in Bletchingley Tunnel a couple of weeks ago), it’s got numerous foot crossings and entirely unstaffed stations where people have historically come to grief on the third rail - and virtually all the freight needs to be diesel-hauled anyway, with only an hourly passenger train service most of the time, too.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Doesn't fit the narrative!
- Status