Train 18 mins late....then 12..then 6?

Howardh · 9 Oct 2019

Last night the 2054 Bolton - Manchester was on the screen as arriving delayed at something like 2112. Now normally that figure moves up or down a minute or so as you wait, but last night it changed so as I waited it moved back 6 minutes, and then announced the train was arriving at 2100 or 2001; in other words the 18 minute delay had been reduced to six.

(I was just about to not buy the ticket and walk away when I saw the first delay, but as I was walking away the first change occured).

I can understand trains catching up a few minutes between stations, but not to this extent! Was the problem something expected on the line to delay the train - but it was cleared before it reached (or was cleared quicker than anticipated)?

Thinking maybe if there's a known obstruction which could be cleared before the train arrives, there should be station announcements telling pax to remain in situ as the arrival time could well be brought forward - to prevent them leaving the station (ie for a drink) and returning at 2110 expecting a 2112 departure and it's been and gone!!

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notlob.divad · 9 Oct 2019

Howardh said:
Last night the 2054 Bolton - Manchester was on the screen as arriving delayed at something like 2112. Now normally that figure moves up or down a minute or so as you wait, but last night it changed so as I waited it moved back 6 minutes, and then announced the train was arriving at 2100 or 2001; in other words the 18 minute delay had been reduced to six.

(I was just about to not buy the ticket and walk away when I saw the first delay, but as I was walking away the first change occured).

I can understand trains catching up a few minutes between stations, but not to this extent! Was the problem something expected on the line to delay the train - but it was cleared before it reached (or was cleared quicker than anticipated)?

Thinking maybe if there's a known obstruction which could be cleared before the train arrives, there should be station announcements telling pax to remain in situ as the arrival time could well be brought forward - to prevent them leaving the station (ie for a drink) and returning at 2110 expecting a 2112 departure and it's been and gone!!

Looks like it ran non stop Leyland to Lostock - Skipping Buckshaw, Chorley and Horwich. As a result it went from 19 mins late to 11 mins late. Would that account for your experience?

rg177 · 9 Oct 2019

The train ran fast from Leyland to Lostock, so made up 10 minutes or so, then there appears to have been a couple of extra minutes pathing allowance outside Bolton.

*edit* beaten to it

Howardh · 9 Oct 2019

notlob.divad said:
Looks like it ran non stop Leyland to Lostock - Skipping Buckshaw, Chorley and Horwich. As a result it went from 19 mins late to 11 mins late. Would that account for your experience?

Did it? Thanks for that - so for pax standing at those stops the train was effectively "cancelled"? Not sure I like that as a solution unless there was a stopper following within a few minutes!

rg177 · 9 Oct 2019

There wasn't particularly. The train for example was scheduled into Chorley for 2037, passed at 2053 and while there was in theory a stopper to Hazel Grove at 2103 it didn't rock up until 2126.

yorkie · 9 Oct 2019

With the 2024 behind it, it makes perfect sense to me.

Edit: they were only 5 min apart departing Blackpool however the stopper appears to have lost more time at Euxton Jn, which was unfortunate. That may not have been known when the decision was made

Whisky Papa · 9 Oct 2019

A somewhat similar situation at Aberystwyth in August.
I'd seen on my phone that the 2030 departure was expected to be delayed to 2046 due to on-train signalling equipment problems. We still made sure we got back to the station by 2030, and the delayed inward train arrived at 2033 as my phone had predicted. About ten passengers boarded, the crew changed ends and at 2037 the doors closed and off we went, with the platform indicators still showing "Expected 2046". I wonder how many passengers were left in the adjacent Wetherspoons as a result?

Howardh · 9 Oct 2019

Whisky Papa said:
A somewhat similar situation at Aberystwyth in August.
I'd seen on my phone that the 2030 departure was expected to be delayed to 2046 due to on-train signalling equipment problems. We still made sure we got back to the station by 2030, and the delayed inward train arrived at 2033 as my phone had predicted. About ten passengers boarded, the crew changed ends and at 2037 the doors closed and off we went, with the platform indicators still showing "Expected 2046". I wonder how many passengers were left in the adjacent Wetherspoons as a result?

These days, I suppose, we are expected to be sat in the pub with the app showing exactly where the train is so we know it's on final approach!
But if they are thinking of "speeding up" an incoming train, especially when the original ETA's already been shown at the station, surely there should be announcements telling pax to hang around as the ETA could be brought forward?
Last night I could easily have popped out for a half in Piggy's and got back in time only to find the train had gone (although to be honest Piggy's has free wifi and I would have RTT or Northern's app on)

paddington · 9 Oct 2019

I check RTT before even heading to the station because of this sort of thing. Makes me feel rather smug when I rock up to a station with an hourly service just in time for a delayed train, and everyone else has been twiddling their thumbs for 20 mins. Of course as in this thread you do need to pay attention to make sure that they haven't decided to do something like skipping stops at the last minute.

RTT has also allowed me to do some Mersey-style tarting when there are delays, as in I normally wouldn't have time to leave an interchange station to see what's in the area but if I know it's impossible for the train to arrive before a certain time then I know how far I can walk and turn back.

Bletchleyite · 9 Oct 2019

Services operated using Class 195s on Class 14x/15x timings will catch up like this even without dropping stops - the EMU like performance allows them to easily gain back time.

LancasterRed · 10 Oct 2019

Howardh said:
Did it? Thanks for that - so for pax standing at those stops the train was effectively "cancelled"? Not sure I like that as a solution unless there was a stopper following within a few minutes!

Similar happened to me at Bamber Bridge the other week. Colne-Blackpool service skipped Brig and Lostock Hall without even announcement (it sped through as everyone was getting ready to go for it, not good!) then the York express a few minutes behind sped through (no announcement, but people just assumed it was the Colne train and so the same happened again)
Left a packed Brig waiting an hour for the train before the next one was even further delayed due to an incident on board!
Seems to be a thing with Northern.

Bletchleyite · 10 Oct 2019

LancasterRed said:
Similar happened to me at Bamber Bridge the other week. Colne-Blackpool service skipped Brig and Lostock Hall without even announcement (it sped through as everyone was getting ready to go for it, not good!) then the York express a few minutes behind sped through (no announcement, but people just assumed it was the Colne train and so the same happened again)
Left a packed Brig waiting an hour for the train before the next one was even further delayed due to an incident on board!
Seems to be a thing with Northern.

Skipped where, sorry? Have the Alps relocated themselves to north Lancashire?

Howardh · 10 Oct 2019

LancasterRed said:
Similar happened to me at Bamber Bridge the other week. Colne-Blackpool service skipped Brig and Lostock Hall without even announcement (it sped through as everyone was getting ready to go for it, not good!) then the York express a few minutes behind sped through (no announcement, but people just assumed it was the Colne train and so the same happened again)
Left a packed Brig waiting an hour for the train before the next one was even further delayed due to an incident on board!
Seems to be a thing with Northern.

It's a pity passengers get in the way of running a train service. Maybe they would be better off if we didn't bother them?

Nymanic · 11 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Services operated using Class 195s on Class 14x/15x timings will catch up like this even without dropping stops - the EMU like performance allows them to easily gain back time.

Being timetabled to run from Wigan to Preston in 24 minutes, when most trains can manage it in half the time, might also be a factor. At present, Barrow and Windermere timings are particularly slack - Some journeys take half an hour longer between Manchester and Lancaster than you'd expect for a modern 100mph train. But perhaps that'll change in December?

Here's a case in point from today - good recovery, but you'd hope for nothing less.

There's similar opportunity to claw back time on the Airport-Liverpool stretch too, partly as the timings seem to take a Warrington West call into account (which isn't yet in use). Here's an example. When running to time, it's not unusual to arrive 4 or 5 minutes early at Warrington Central - even the 156s could manage it!

Train 18 mins late....then 12..then 6?

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