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Anniversary of Harrow Rail Crash

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Jimbob52

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Just a reminder that today, 8th October, is the anniversary of the double collision at Harrow and Wealdstone. Please spare a thought for those involved or affected in some way.

Does anyone know what happened to the poor signalman who witnessed the crash?
 
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Became Station Master at a station in the Peak District then at Harlington near Luton Beds.
Finally became a pub landlord at The Red Lion in Dunstable and passed away in 1991.
 

Jimbob52

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Thank you for the information.
A straightforward SPAD that had terrible consequences.
It is sad that even The Times does not mention the UK's worst peacetime railway accident in its 'On This day' column.
 

Foxcote

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I knew Alf Armitage when he was Station Master at Cromford, as I was S.M.next door at Whatstandwell in 1960/61. We met for the odd drink from time to time when he was not ‘on call’ and I visited him after he moved to Harlington.

I was privileged to be allowed to read all the documents Alf had kept on the Harrow accident, including a pile of letters from the public.

I recall being surprised that the letters he had received fell into three categories. The first category formed the largest number of letters and expressed sympathy for Alf and his family and some included offers of holidays. The second category were of a variety of ideas and sketches on how such accidents could be avoided. The third category numbered only a few letters, (none of which I would ever have considered keeping) which were abusive and blamed Alf for the accident.
 

Cowley

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I knew Alf Armitage when he was Station Master at Cromford, as I was S.M.next door at Whatstandwell in 1960/61. We met for the odd drink from time to time when he was not ‘on call’ and I visited him after he moved to Harlington.

I was privileged to be allowed to read all the documents Alf had kept on the Harrow accident, including a pile of letters from the public.

I recall being surprised that the letters he had received fell into three categories. The first category formed the largest number of letters and expressed sympathy for Alf and his family and some included offers of holidays. The second category were of a variety of ideas and sketches on how such accidents could be avoided. The third category numbered only a few letters, (none of which I would ever have considered keeping) which were abusive and blamed Alf for the accident.
What an amazing insight Foxcote, thanks for sharing it with us.

A few years ago I was chatting to my Dads cousin - Graham about his parents, and he told me that at the time of the crash their garden backed onto the railway about a mile south of the station. He (although quite young) actually heard the accident and they all rushed outside to try and work out what had caused the terrible noise in the distance that morning.
Peggy (my great aunt) who was a trained nurse then rushed off to the station to give assistance.
I didn’t actually know about this when Peggy was still alive, so unfortunately I didn’t ever get a chance to ask her about it.
 

Busaholic

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What an amazing insight Foxcote, thanks for sharing it with us.

A few years ago I was chatting to my Dads cousin - Graham about his parents, and he told me that at the time of the crash their garden backed onto the railway about a mile south of the station. He (although quite young) actually heard the accident and they all rushed outside to try and work out what had caused the terrible noise in the distance that morning.
Peggy (my great aunt) who was a trained nurse then rushed off to the station to give assistance.
I didn’t actually know about this when Peggy was still alive, so unfortunately I didn’t ever get a chance to ask her about it.
Obviously I didn't know your great aunt, Peggy, but I wonder whether she would have talked about it, even if specifically asked to. I say this because people in earlier generations than ours were, if not actively discouraged from talking about sad events they'd witnessed or experienced, accepted they'd happened and tried to put them behind them. This could, of course, go to what we'd call ludicrous extremes, where death of a family member, for instance, could lead to that person's existence almost being expunged from history.
 

RichmondCommu

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I seem to remember reading that the driver of the Perth train (who was based at Crewe) had been busy with DIY at his home hours before signing on; the suggestion being that perhaps he had not had enough sleep.
 

Cowley

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Obviously I didn't know your great aunt, Peggy, but I wonder whether she would have talked about it, even if specifically asked to. I say this because people in earlier generations than ours were, if not actively discouraged from talking about sad events they'd witnessed or experienced, accepted they'd happened and tried to put them behind them. This could, of course, go to what we'd call ludicrous extremes, where death of a family member, for instance, could lead to that person's existence almost being expunged from history.
I must admit that I almost added that to what I’d posted...
There’s something in there about the fact that my wonderful Aunt Peggy despite always being encouraging of my railway hobby didn’t mention once. Not once, this extraordinarily dreadful event that must have played over in her mind many a time over the years..
 

Ianno87

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The third category numbered only a few letters, (none of which I would ever have considered keeping) which were abusive and blamed Alf for the accident.

Blimey - the sort of folk who would now be Twitter trolls.
 

Busaholic

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I must admit that I almost added that to what I’d posted...
There’s something in there about the fact that my wonderful Aunt Peggy despite always being encouraging of my railway hobby didn’t mention once. Not once, this extraordinarily dreadful event that must have played over in her mind many a time over the years..
I know my father was on the Dartford line train immediately behind the Ramsgate steam train that crashed into a Hayes line train at St John's, Lewisham, in thick fog in 1957. The Dartford electric, driven by a young driver, was able to stop just short of the wreckage. 50 people died in that crash. I remember that evening, aged 9 and waiting at home with my (never well) mother, wondering where my father, always home by 6.30 p.m. could possibly be: no immediate news of anything like that in those days, in fact I think it was only radio news at 9 or 10 p.m. that stated the bold facts that there'd been a fatal crash. I think it was midnight or later when my father's key was heard in the door, and the tears flowed, but not from my cool as a cucumber father who, in his usual understated way, said there'd been a few problems getting home, or words to that effect. He went off to work again a few hours later, and the accident was never, ever, mentioned again in my house, despite my father's interest in railways and steam engines in particular. Later on, years after his death, I found out why he'd always seemed to hate Italy and anything Italian, even though I'd thought he'd never been there. He'd actually been involved in the Battle of Montecassino in WW2 as a tank commander, I discovered. Family secrets!
 

Busaholic

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Yep. ‘Postal Warriors’ they must have called them back then...
They were called 'poison pen' letter writers, an incredible number of whom were women, often spinsters, and almost all would be anonymous.
 

Cowley

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I know my father was on the Dartford line train immediately behind the Ramsgate steam train that crashed into a Hayes line train at St John's, Lewisham, in thick fog in 1957. The Dartford electric, driven by a young driver, was able to stop just short of the wreckage. 50 people died in that crash. I remember that evening, aged 9 and waiting at home with my (never well) mother, wondering where my father, always home by 6.30 p.m. could possibly be: no immediate news of anything like that in those days, in fact I think it was only radio news at 9 or 10 p.m. that stated the bold facts that there'd been a fatal crash. I think it was midnight or later when my father's key was heard in the door, and the tears flowed, but not from my cool as a cucumber father who, in his usual understated way, said there'd been a few problems getting home, or words to that effect. He went off to work again a few hours later, and the accident was never, ever, mentioned again in my house, despite my father's interest in railways and steam engines in particular. Later on, years after his death, I found out why he'd always seemed to hate Italy and anything Italian, even though I'd thought he'd never been there. He'd actually been involved in the Battle of Montecassino in WW2 as a tank commander, I discovered. Family secrets!
Sobering stuff.
It makes me think about how it was when I was a teenager back in the 1980s and there just seemed to be one terrible disaster after another every few months - Hillsborough, Kings Cross, Zeebrugge etc.
When you look back at the 1950s there were so many rail accidents (particularly on the former LMS lines), but then there were other terrible events like the Lynmouth floods, the North Sea floods etc that must have filled the papers also.
Most of these would I guess be avoidable nowadays. Although what happened at Grenfell Tower shows that if a route through a connection of mistakes lines up it’s still possible to have such a dramatic disaster in the modern age.
 

DerekC

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My dad went to school in Berkhamsted in the 1930s. He had a picture of his class and several pf them were killed at Harrow. Evidently they all regularly sat together in the last coach of the Tring to Euston train.
 

RichmondCommu

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Sobering stuff.
It makes me think about how it was when I was a teenager back in the 1980s and there just seemed to be one terrible disaster after another every few months - Hillsborough, Kings Cross, Zeebrugge etc.
When you look back at the 1950s there were so many rail accidents (particularly on the former LMS lines), but then there were other terrible events like the Lynmouth floods, the North Sea floods etc that must have filled the papers also.
Most of these would I guess be avoidable nowadays. Although what happened at Grenfell Tower shows that if a route through a connection of mistakes lines up it’s still possible to have such a dramatic disaster in the modern age.
I know this is off topic but for some time after the KX disaster there were Met Police posters on the Underground asking for help to identify an unknown soul who had perished. Desperately sad stuff.

And for Hillsborough. The police cover up was an absolute disgrace and I fear that those poor families will never see the justice that they yearn for.
 

citycat

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I know my father was on the Dartford line train immediately behind the Ramsgate steam train that crashed into a Hayes line train at St John's, Lewisham, in thick fog in 1957. The Dartford electric, driven by a young driver, was able to stop just short of the wreckage. 50 people died in that crash. I remember that evening, aged 9 and waiting at home with my (never well) mother, wondering where my father, always home by 6.30 p.m. could possibly be: no immediate news of anything like that in those days, in fact I think it was only radio news at 9 or 10 p.m. that stated the bold facts that there'd been a fatal crash. I think it was midnight or later when my father's key was heard in the door, and the tears flowed, but not from my cool as a cucumber father who, in his usual understated way, said there'd been a few problems getting home, or words to that effect. He went off to work again a few hours later, and the accident was never, ever, mentioned again in my house, despite my father's interest in railways and steam engines in particular. Later on, years after his death, I found out why he'd always seemed to hate Italy and anything Italian, even though I'd thought he'd never been there. He'd actually been involved in the Battle of Montecassino in WW2 as a tank commander, I discovered. Family secrets!

Similar to my dad then who was never very keen on the Italians. Turns out he was on the troop ship Empress of Canada which was sunk in the early hours of 13th March 1943, torpedoed by the Italian submarine Leonardo da Vinci which surfaced as they were desperately trying to stay alive in the water off South Africa. He always remembered seeing the name plate on the side of the sub. My dad survived three days on a raft but many more were lost to the sharks. He never talked about it either until near the end of his life.

Sorry, bit off topic.
 

ChiefPlanner

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My dad went to school in Berkhamsted in the 1930s. He had a picture of his class and several pf them were killed at Harrow. Evidently they all regularly sat together in the last coach of the Tring to Euston train.

The well known railway photographer , H C Casserley was normally a patron of the last coaches of the Tring local , but had flu that day and did not travel to work. ....
 

CarltonA

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On thing to come out of the H&W crash was a major revamp of the British ambulance service. Up to that point the ambulances were often run as a part of the fire brigade and casualties were collected with the minimum of treatment and rushed to hospital. There was an American military hospital nearby and they sent several ambulances to the scene. It was found that the survival rate of the casualties treated by the US medics was better than those collected by the local ambulances. This appeared to be down to the more comprehensive teatment given before setting off to hospital.
 

ChiefPlanner

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On thing to come out of the H&W crash was a major revamp of the British ambulance service. Up to that point the ambulances were often run as a part of the fire brigade and casualties were collected with the minimum of treatment and rushed to hospital. There was an American military hospital nearby and they sent several ambulances to the scene. It was found that the survival rate of the casualties treated by the US medics was better than those collected by the local ambulances. This appeared to be down to the more comprehensive teatment given before setting off to hospital.

The abondonment of "scoop and run" - though in the case of Harrow , lightly injured victims were taken to various hospitals , forcing the use of a 142 bus , a removal van and various cars to assist in the movement of other patients.

Many of the original papers of the internal BR enquiry were rescued from Euston , further rescued from Watford and reside in the local archives in Harrow library. (having been scanned and put onto the Railways Archive website) - this was done by one of my ex workmates.
 

swt_passenger

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On thing to come out of the H&W crash was a major revamp of the British ambulance service. Up to that point the ambulances were often run as a part of the fire brigade and casualties were collected with the minimum of treatment and rushed to hospital. There was an American military hospital nearby and they sent several ambulances to the scene. It was found that the survival rate of the casualties treated by the US medics was better than those collected by the local ambulances. This appeared to be down to the more comprehensive teatment given before setting off to hospital.
There’s a good article which has a significant section about this very subject on the London Reconnections site:
https://www.londonreconnections.com...ldstone-disaster-helped-shape-modern-britain/
...well worth a read, it was written for the 60th anniversary.
 

Dr_Paul

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One of my dad's work colleagues was on the up suburban train that was involved in the Harrow accident. He was at the front of the train and was not injured. He turned up at work somewhat late but not apparently shaken by the experience, something I find quite remarkable when the damage to humans, rolling stock and infrastructure just a few yards behind him is taken into consideration. He must have walked past all the destruction on his way out of the station. Another of his work colleagues was involved in the Lewisham accident. He was quite badly injured, being mostly thrown out of a window and then trapped for some time hanging upside down with his knees over a window frame and his feet still inside the carriage. He was fortunate not to have been killed, other people around him did not survive.
 

Cowley

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One of my dad's work colleagues was on the up suburban train that was involved in the Harrow accident. He was at the front of the train and was not injured. He turned up at work somewhat late but not apparently shaken by the experience, something I find quite remarkable when the damage to humans, rolling stock and infrastructure just a few yards behind him is taken into consideration. He must have walked past all the destruction on his way out of the station. Another of his work colleagues was involved in the Lewisham accident. He was quite badly injured, being mostly thrown out of a window and then trapped for some time hanging upside down with his knees over a window frame and his feet still inside the carriage. He was fortunate not to have been killed, other people around him did not survive.
Astonishing. That generation never fall to amaze me.
 

matchmaker

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I know my father was on the Dartford line train immediately behind the Ramsgate steam train that crashed into a Hayes line train at St John's, Lewisham, in thick fog in 1957. The Dartford electric, driven by a young driver, was able to stop just short of the wreckage. 50 people died in that crash. I remember that evening, aged 9 and waiting at home with my (never well) mother, wondering where my father, always home by 6.30 p.m. could possibly be: no immediate news of anything like that in those days, in fact I think it was only radio news at 9 or 10 p.m. that stated the bold facts that there'd been a fatal crash. I think it was midnight or later when my father's key was heard in the door, and the tears flowed, but not from my cool as a cucumber father who, in his usual understated way, said there'd been a few problems getting home, or words to that effect. He went off to work again a few hours later, and the accident was never, ever, mentioned again in my house, despite my father's interest in railways and steam engines in particular. Later on, years after his death, I found out why he'd always seemed to hate Italy and anything Italian, even though I'd thought he'd never been there. He'd actually been involved in the Battle of Montecassino in WW2 as a tank commander, I discovered. Family secrets!

90 died at St Johns. Only Harrow and of course Quintinshill had a greater death toll.
 

Lucan

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One of my dad's work colleagues was on the up suburban train that was involved in the Harrow accident. He was at the front of the train and was not injured. He turned up at work somewhat late but not apparently shaken by the experience, something I find quite remarkable
Different people react in different ways. I am not one to show emotion myself but that does not mean I am not feeling it inside. A neighbour of mine was in the 1988 Clapham crash, unhurt, and he seemed completely unfazed about it.
 

Busaholic

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I concur. It's worth remembering that many people involved that morning would have seen action during WW2 and so perhaps for them it wasn't so much of a shock.
Not just those who were directly involved in WW2, either. The S.E. London house I was born in was opposite a group of prefabs, which replaced houses destroyed by rockets a few years previously. They were yards from a local Water Works, and the Woolwich Arsenal was only a very few miles away: when I was about four we moved a few hundred yards to a house that had its own small bomb shelter attached. My parents met when my father got sent (never heard why) to stay in the Royal Herbert Military Hospital during WW2, where my mother was a V.A.D. Air raids were daily events for weeks on end in London, and other cities of course, so people did get inured to them, just as those benighted souls in Syria and other war zones do now.
 

DerekC

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Not just those who were directly involved in WW2, either. The S.E. London house I was born in was opposite a group of prefabs, which replaced houses destroyed by rockets a few years previously. They were yards from a local Water Works, and the Woolwich Arsenal was only a very few miles away: when I was about four we moved a few hundred yards to a house that had its own small bomb shelter attached. My parents met when my father got sent (never heard why) to stay in the Royal Herbert Military Hospital during WW2, where my mother was a V.A.D. Air raids were daily events for weeks on end in London, and other cities of course, so people did get inured to them, just as those benighted souls in Syria and other war zones do now.

That may have made a difference. The photographs in the accident report are absolutely horrific. I do think though that even now, when faced directly with a horrifying situation most people do react sensibly - apart from the ones who stand around videoing the scene instead of helping or getting out of the way.
 
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