Didn't some Shef to Brid services extend to scarborough anyway
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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates
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MickeyClass37
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Hi
Has anyone got upto date Diagrams for 195 that are running presently?
Have theys on the Blackpool York service yet?
Cheers
Has anyone got upto date Diagrams for 195 that are running presently?
Have theys on the Blackpool York service yet?
Cheers
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What's that doing there? A trial run for doing Liverpool-Notts with 195s? Or does one of the already planned Northern Connect services go there?
ohgoditsjames
Member
Leeds to Nottingham is a connect service
I think the question that should be being asked is, what's 195121 doing there? I thought it was standard practice to use on exploratory/familiarisation runs units which hadn't yet been used in service, but 195121 is one of the twelve 195/1s which are theoretically available for use, with ten being diagrammed for daily service! No wonder there's a shortage.
What are thought to be current are given in post #528 on the '195: Initial Diagrams' thread, quoted herewith.
I'll start with the Sunday diagrams for Barrow/Windermere, which, up to now, haven't been posted here in their entirety.
First of all, mikemcniven gave us three of the original diagrams (i.e. those effective from Sunday 7/7/19) in post #116.
There are a couple of corrections to make to 'Circuit 1'. The 1851 journey ex-Barrow terminates at Preston, and the 2046 journey starts there. If 'Circuit 1' and 'Circuit 2' are both operating (a big 'if') then the unit operating 'Circuit 2' attaches at Preston to the rear of the unit operating 'Circuit 1'. Any passengers in the rear unit (i.e. those coming from south of Preston) are required to transfer to the front unit and the rear unit is locked out of use for the journey to Barrow.
There was a fourth diagram effective from the same date, or, at least, it was covered by a 195 on that day and has since proved to be just as much a 195 diagram as the other three. This was given by myself in post #197, from information contained in 'Realtime Trains' and personal observation - I've since added ECS movements. I'll call it Diagram 4.
Diagram 4
0832 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0840 Barrow - Manchester Oxford Road*
1102 Manchester Oxford Road - Manchester Oxford Road via Trafford Park East Junction ECS
1153 Manchester Oxford Road - Windermere*
1358 Windermere - Oxenholme
1423 Oxenholme - Windermere
1449 Windermere - Oxenholme
1535 Oxenholme - Windermere
1606 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1833 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2123 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
*Prior to 15/9/19 these journeys continued to/started from Manchester Airport (1133 Airport to Windermere)
A further three Barrow/Windermere diagrams went 195-operated from 18/8/19, although one of those was covered by a 156 that day. All Sunday journeys venturing south of Lancaster were then scheduled to be 195-operated. I'll call them Diagrams 5-7.
Diagram 5
0719 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Piccadilly ECS
0736 Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport*
0833 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1055 Windermere - Oxenholme
1118 Oxenholme - Windermere
1140 Windermere - Oxenholme
1201 Oxenholme - Windermere
1223 Windermere - Oxenholme
1247 Oxenholme - Windermere
1308 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1533 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1822 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
* This journey added 15/9/19
Diagram 6
0739 Allerton Depot - Liverpool Lime Street ECS
0821 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
0935 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1210 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1342 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1347 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1633 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1947 Barrow - Manchester Airport
2239 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
or
2251 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0012 Liverpool Lime Street - Allerton Depot ECS
(The above will probably vary week to week)
Diagram 7
1129 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1137 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1433 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1709 Windermere - Oxenholme
1739 Oxenholme - Windermere
1800 Windermere - Oxenholme
1830 Oxenholme - Windermere
1901 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2125 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
When 195s were introduced to the North West they were not initially used on Liverpool to Manchester Airport diagrams on Sundays. The first diagram to go 195-operated did so with effect from 18/8/19. Actually, whether it constitutes one diagram or two is arguable, since I am assured that it is scheduled for a double 195/0 which is planned to split at one point (thereby making it two diagrams), however by virtue of the fact that the diagram has not yet been actually operated by a double 195/0 (a single 195/0 may have operated it, I'm not sure about that) I'll consider it a single diagram for now, and call it Diagram 8.
Diagram 8
0934 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Oxford Road ECS
1018 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
1116 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Oxford Road*
1217 Manchester Oxford Road - Manchester Oxford Road via Trafford Park East Junction ECS
1313 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street*
1416 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1716 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1851 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2016 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2151 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
Should then do 0337 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport (Monday to Friday Diagram 11)
* Prior to 15/9/19 these journeys continued to/started from Manchester Airport (1248 Airport to Liverpool)
The remaining diagrams on Liverpool - Manchester Airport have subsequently gone over to 195 operation, probably from 15/9/19. I'll call them Diagrams 9 & 10.
Diagram 9
0752 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Oxford Road ECS
0817 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
0916 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1050 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1216 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1351 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1516 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1651 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1816 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1950 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2119 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2239 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
or
2251 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0012 Liverpool Lime Street - Allerton Depot ECS
(The above will probably vary week to week)
Diagram 10
0945 Allerton Depot - Liverpool Lime Street ECS
1016 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1151 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1316 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1451 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1614 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1751 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1916 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2051 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2216 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2344 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
Now for Saturday diagrams. Here again, mikemcniven has got us off to a good start in post #116 with six of the originals, i.e. those effective from 6/7/19.
A few corrections are required, as follows.
Circuit 1: 1634 Manchester Airport to Barrow should read 1629 Manchester Airport to Barrow
Circuit 2: 1943 Barrow to Manchester Airport should have read 1934 Barrow to Manchester Airport - but see below
Circuit 5: 2143 Manchester Airport to Liverpool should read 2148 Manchester Airport to Liverpool
Circuit 6: 0613 Liverpool to Wilmslow should read 0613 Liverpool to Manchester Airport
Circuit 6: 0748 Wilmslow to Liverpool should read 0750 Manchester Airport to Liverpool
Circuit 6: 2129 Liverpool to Wilmslow should read 2129 Liverpool to Manchester Airport
Circuit 6: 2249 Wilmslow to Liverpool should read 2249 Manchester Airport to Liverpool
Other amendments are necessary by virtue of service changes.
Circuit 1: From 14/9/19 2210 Manchester Airport to Barrow becomes 2210 Manchester Airport to Preston
Circuit 2: The 1934 Barrow to Manchester Airport and 2210 return appear on both Circuit 1 and Circuit 2. It was intended that this journey should run as a double unit throughout - this generally hasn't happened but it has run as a double at least once. Circuit 2 therefore, should presumably now be regarded as finishing after completing the 1530 Manchester Airport - Barrow
Circuit 4: From 14/9/19 2044 Windermere to Oxenholme becomes 2043 Windermere to Lancaster, and all subsequent journeys on the diagram are cancelled. From Lancaster unit operates 2226 Lancaster - Barrow
The new 2210 Manchester Airport to Preston does have a bus connection for Lancaster, but not Barrow, apparently. The cancelled journeys on Circuit 4 all have bus replacements.
A seventh Saturday diagram went 195-operated at a very early date, probably from 6/7/19. This may have been a consequence of a late decision, it may have been realised that because Diagram 6 didn't need to be strengthened (unlike Mondays to Fridays) there would be a 195 available, therefore may as well use it. This additional diagram I'll call Diagram 7.
Diagram 7
0337 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0709 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Oxford Road
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
1016 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1316 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1616 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1915 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2224 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
2344 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
From 7/7/19 all Saturday semi-fast journeys between Manchester Airport and Liverpool Lime Street were scheduled to be 195-operated, but there were three diagrams on the main Barrow/Windermere circuit which were still non-195. These went 195-operated from 17/8/19, I'll call them Diagrams 8-10.
Diagram 8
0457 Blackpool North CMD - Lancaster ECS
0559 Lancaster - Windermere
0643 Windermere - Oxenholme
0728 Oxenholme - Windermere
0755 Windermere - Oxenholme
0827 Oxenholme - Windermere
0851 Windermere - Oxenholme
0920 Oxenholme - Windermere
1008 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1229 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1507 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1850 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1903 Barrow - Preston
2036 Preston - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
Diagram 9
0702 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0708 Barrow - Lancaster
0823 Lancaster - Barrow
0934 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1135 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1146 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1429 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1706 Windermere - Oxenholme
1736 Oxenholme - Windermere
1801 Windermere - Oxenholme
1829 Oxenholme - Windermere
1855 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2234 Manchester Airport - Blackpool North
0028 Blackpool North - Blackpool North CMD ECS
Diagram 10
0449 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0522 Manchester Airport - Barrow
0811 Barrow - Barrow via Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
0846 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1129 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1407 Windermere - Oxenholme
1438 Oxenholme - Windermere
1459 Windermere - Oxenholme
1532 Oxenholme - Windermere
1605 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1829 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2117 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
After the changes of 12-18/8/19 all journeys to/from Windermere were scheduled to be 195-operated, as were all journeys to/from Barrow running south of Lancaster, apart from an afternoon NSu Preston - Carlisle journey. Apart from three single journeys (listed above), all Barrow - Lancaster journeys (and the Preston-Carlisle) remain 156-operated.
Lastly, Monday to Friday diagrams. I've left them until last because they are actually all currently posted within this thread, somewhere, but unless you know where to look you would struggle to find them. So here's my attempt at getting them together.
As always, mikemcniven got us off to a great start (in post #1) with the seven original diagrams - these were effective from 1/7/19, although in the early days 195 availability was poor.
One or two early errors were quickly corrected, leaving the above to prove virtually infallible. The only remaining errors I can find are:
Circuit 2: Train reporting number 2X09 should read 2C09 (and we haven't bothered with reporting numbers since, anyway)
Circuit 5: 2143 Manchester Airport - Liverpool should read 2148 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
Note that 'Circuit 7' simply doubles up with 'Circuit 6' for one return trip in the morning, and one in the afternoon.
A further five diagrams became 195-operated from 12/8/19. I'll call them Diagrams 8-12.
Diagram 8
0457 Blackpool North CMD - Lancaster ECS
0559 Lancaster - Windermere
0643 Windermere - Oxenholme
0728 Oxenholme - Windermere
0755 Windermere - Oxenholme
0827 Oxenholme - Windermere
0851 Windermere - Oxenholme
0930 Oxenholme - Windermere
0956 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1229 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1507 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1850 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1855 Barrow - Preston
2036 Preston - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
Diagram 9
0702 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0708 Barrow - Lancaster
0823 Lancaster - Barrow
0934 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1135 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1146 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1429 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1706 Windermere - Oxenholme
1742 Oxenholme - Windermere
1807 Windermere - Oxenholme
1829 Oxenholme - Windermere
1855 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2234 Manchester Airport - Blackpool North (via Bolton)
0029 Blackpool North - Blackpool North CMD ECS
Diagram 10
0449 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0522 Manchester Airport - Barrow
0811 Barrow - Barrow via Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
0846 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1129 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1407 Windermere - Oxenholme
1438 Oxenholme - Windermere
1459 Windermere - Oxenholme
1532 Oxenholme - Windermere
1605 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1829 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2117 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
Diagram 11
0337 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road (Front Unit)
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1915 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
2224 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0017 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
Diagram 12
0507 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road (Rear Unit)
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1916 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
Diagrams 11 and 12 are booked for 195/0s. If two 195/0s are not available then Diagram 11 will usually run with a single 195/0, or a single 195/1, and Diagram 12 will not operate.
At 2224 only the unit operating Diagram 11 departs Liverpool for Manchester Airport, the unit operating Diagram 12 remains in the platform at Lime Street ready to work the next morning's 0337 departure, (i.e. Diagram 11). This arrangement is thought to not apply on Friday nights/Saturday mornings.
(Q: On Friday night, is Diagram 12 scheduled to remain with Diagram 11 and finish at Newton Heath?)
Note that, if the above routine continues uninterrupted, each unit gets back to Newton Heath every other night.
Thanks are obviously due to mikemcniven for getting us off to such a good start. Additional information is mainly from information contained in 'Realtime Trains' and from personal observation, but additional information has been provided by NWR001, 156420, 37078xotTE, and others.
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This is the most recent information to have been posted on the forum, to the best of my knowledge.
Presumably, in order that they could be doubled up to make four-car sets - which is what the 1715 is diagrammed to be operated by.
EDIT: Sorry, my mistake, it's the 1616 which should have been a four-car set. It's coming up on 'Journey Check' as being formed of two carriages - so is the 'other' 195/0 working it?
The 1715 departure is diagrammed for a three-car 195/1.
EDIT 2: The 1616 departed Lime Street at 1629, 13L, ten minutes behind the 1619 CLC stopper, which departed on time, and which the 1616 had as good as caught by Warrington. The 1616 arrived the Airport at 1802, 34L, and the 1750 return has been cancelled. I can't, at the moment, see what's happened to the stock.
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I mean stuff goes wrong but it just permanently seems to go wrong at the minute. The stopper after the 17:16 heading to Oxford Road was a pair of 156's. It was empty.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Earlier this week, we chose to travel on the 1029 Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness train as far as the stop at Wigan North Western. We were very surprised to find a 195/0 2-car unit had been deemed acceptable for such a journey that prior to the franchise remits, had been the preserve of a 3-car Class 185 of TPE. There must have been a number of incoming flights around this time and the train had heavy loading of people with large items of luggage, returning to Manchester Airport when it departed.
The 195s are great ... but for two weeks running now the 0709 semi fast train from Lime St to Manchester Oxford Road has been badly delayed or (today) cancelled by a problem with the inbound 195 from the Airport. Last Saturday in the platform the electronics wouldn’t boot, this morning a problem with the brakes.
In last week’s case Northern responded really well - they quickly gave up on the defective 195 in Platform 7 and split the following double-sprinter 0719 stopper already in Platform 6, so the front portion formed the fast 0709, and the rear formed the stopper 0719. The guard walked through both portions checking destinations and moving people between the stopper and semi-fast as needed.
This morning though was a shambles - no information, the (genuinely concerned) platform staff obviously desperate for information from control, and eventually everyone getting on the front two coaches anyway out of desperation just before it departed as the delayed 0719 stopper. So all the way up until 0721, when the 0719 departed, there was no information at all for passengers waiting for the 0709, at a busy Northern hub. In the end the 0709 was cancelled. I just hope no-one was left waiting for it.
On these forums we can see quite intuitively what’s going to happen in these situations - but it’s sad to hear the young family member who needs to get to Manchester each Saturday ask me if she can not go by train in future. It’s not the delays, it’s the fact Northern simply don’t prioritise getting information to passengers consistently that causes the stress that put people off the service...sorry, I know this isn’t new...
In last week’s case Northern responded really well - they quickly gave up on the defective 195 in Platform 7 and split the following double-sprinter 0719 stopper already in Platform 6, so the front portion formed the fast 0709, and the rear formed the stopper 0719. The guard walked through both portions checking destinations and moving people between the stopper and semi-fast as needed.
This morning though was a shambles - no information, the (genuinely concerned) platform staff obviously desperate for information from control, and eventually everyone getting on the front two coaches anyway out of desperation just before it departed as the delayed 0719 stopper. So all the way up until 0721, when the 0719 departed, there was no information at all for passengers waiting for the 0709, at a busy Northern hub. In the end the 0709 was cancelled. I just hope no-one was left waiting for it.
On these forums we can see quite intuitively what’s going to happen in these situations - but it’s sad to hear the young family member who needs to get to Manchester each Saturday ask me if she can not go by train in future. It’s not the delays, it’s the fact Northern simply don’t prioritise getting information to passengers consistently that causes the stress that put people off the service...sorry, I know this isn’t new...
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N17236/2019/10/09/advanced
Calder Valley preview service, probably for stakeholders and the like.
Calder Valley preview service, probably for stakeholders and the like.
86247
Member
it arrived on October 2nd i saw a 195 on a low loader at edge hill but without fleet number then someone on train logger saw it through roby the day after
That's brilliant, thanks.
superkev
Established Member
I understand theres another stakeholder preview trip on fri 18th Oct Bradford to Hebden Bridge return followed with a bun fight at Halifax piece hall.
K
mikemcniven
Member
Today 195103 ran a press launch run between Manchester Victoria and Rochdale ahead of introduction into service between Leeds and Chester, it was also combined with the 1 millionth passenger to use the new Civity fleet
Northern 195103 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
Northern 195103 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
ScottGallagher
Member
- Joined
- 9 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 596
Thumbs up ish for me today socket was a struggle , 1st time on one from Barrow. No Wi-Fi though! Compared a half baked refurbed 156 almost luxury !
I see that 21/10 and 11/11 are both Mondays, but 15/12 is a Sunday. It is, however, the day the next timetable starts. So does 15/12 mean 15/12, or 16/12?
59CosG95
Established Member
I'd assume, based on past introductions, that 15/12 might be a "soft launch" or similar, based purely around the timetable change. 16/12 for full steam ahead.
For most of the day, scheduled 195 departures are concentrated in the part of the hour xx.47 to xx.13, so I'll slightly exaggerate your time frame. All departures are booked for a single 195/1 (i.e. 3-car), except where stated.
1147 Windermere (ex-Manchester Airport)
1200 Manchester Airport (ex-Windermere)
1209 Liverpool Lime Street (ex-Manchester Airport) - this is booked for a double 195/0, but it won't necessarily be
1213 Manchester Airport (ex-Liverpool Lime Street)
1247 Barrow (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same unit as 1200
1300 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow)
1309 Liverpool Lime Street (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same unit as 1213
1313 Manchester Airport (ex-Liverpool Lime Street)
1347 Barrow (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same unit as 1300
1400 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow)
1409 Liverpool Lime Street (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same unit as 1313
1413 Manchester Airport (ex-Liverpool Lime Street) - should be same set as 1209
1447 Windermere (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same unit as 1400
1500 Manchester Airport (ex-Windermere)
1509 Liverpool Lime Street (ex-Manchester Airport) - should be same set as 1209/1413
1513 Manchester Airport (ex-Liverpool Street) - should be same unit as 1213/1309
If you last out, by 1500 you should have seen all three units/sets on the Liverpool circuit, and 4/5 of the seven on Barrow/Windermere.
If you can manage to hang on until 1613, you might even see a double 195/1 (six-car set) - that's what the departure is diagrammed for, but it's not guaranteed that that's what will turn up. If it is indeed a double, the unit leading should be the one which did 1313 & 1409. The 1600 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow) would also be new to you.
Be warned, cancellations are a hazard.
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