edwin_m
Veteran Member
No you can't, but it hasn't exactly behaved any better since then has it?That article is dated 7 Dec 2018, so you can't really use the poor behaviour of the UK Government since then as a reason
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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DynamicSpirit
Established Member
I think the point is that most of the worst behaviour by the UK Government towards the EU has been since December last year - when it became apparent that the carefully negotiated Brexit agreement wouldn't get past the Commons, resulting in the Government trying to go back on a deal that they and the EU had spent 18 months on. And then of course Boris became PM, and any sense of honesty in the UK Government's dealings disappeared overnight.
I'm therefore struggling to see that bad behaviour by the British Government can be seen as a reason for EFTA countries being reluctant in December 2018 for the UK to join.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
If they were reluctant then when the UK Government approximated to a sane and civilized entity, I think they would be even more so now when the toys have been thrown out of the pram.
Puffing Devil
Established Member
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Any of our staunch Brexiteers care to comment on the massive changes to business and personal relations with the EU post-Brexit recently published by the government:
https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/1181948079467053056
(Twitter link to the announcement and a series of 11 videos describing the huge changes to working, trading and visiting with the EU)
No doubt this will all be dismissed as project fear, even though it's from the Government! Didn't see any of this on the side of the bus.....
https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/1181948079467053056
(Twitter link to the announcement and a series of 11 videos describing the huge changes to working, trading and visiting with the EU)
No doubt this will all be dismissed as project fear, even though it's from the Government! Didn't see any of this on the side of the bus.....
Esker-pades
Established Member
I think the message now is that we're being forced to do it because the EU won't accept Mr Johnson's 'deal'.
Meanwhile, according to the lunchtime news, the negotiations are going to disappear down a 'tunnel' which is an EU term for talking in secret to avoid all the distractions from outsiders. There may be a scintilla of common ground following Johnson's talks with the Taoiseach, but on the other hand, the EU may be avoiding taking the blame for what is to them an unacceptable offer presented by the UK team.
Puffing Devil
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Even though it will all apply if we go with the deal - we're out the Customs Union and Single Market.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Yes, the Northern Ireland bit has overshadowed everything else and it looks as if they may pull a rather mangy rabbit out of a hat on that topic and hope nobody notices all the other really bad features of the deal. Meanwhile the aerospace and medical industries are raising concerns about the UK deviating from European standards and leaving the respective standards agencies. Clearly the government is expecting us to make our own planes, probably using only Imperial nuts and bolts, and there's no risk at all when medicines have to be measured in fluid ounces instead of the millilitres we're all used to.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I've just recently responded to someone on Twitter arguing, or at least trying to argue with Prof. Brian Cox that Brexit wouldn't affect her because she never goes aboard, after he posted just one of these videos. Yeah you read that correctly, Brexit won't affect her because she doesn't go abroad. This is the depth this country is allowing itself to sink to, we are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of Europe, and having spent a few days in Vienna & talking to not just the locals, but other Europeans visiting that city this really is what they think of us now, at least as a nation. Ill informed, ignorant, & arrogant. This is how the UK is rapidly becoming to be seen as, which in turn I'm sure is having an effect on getting any kind of a reasonably negotiated way out of this in a form of a deal. And the damage done by this Brexiteer nonsense will hurt us for many years to come, no matter what the outcome.
Thank goodness were shedding ourselves of that Unelected Eurocrat imposed Beauracracy and Red Tape!!!!
(Being replaced by even more UK beauracracy and red tape, obvs...)
That's before we get in to the whole 'Well I don't use my freedom of movement anyway' argument. You may not use it, but you do *benefit* from it (in a way you may not even be aware of).
Killingworth
Established Member
I'm afraid the rest of Europe isn't alone. Across the globe most who can understand think we've lost our collective sanity. Those who are in business will be planning how to take advantage. As will those already marvelling at a country with two large aircraft carriers with few planes and a shortage of escort and patrol craft, and an under equipped army way below establishment. Our negotiating skills are an open joke where we can't get one citizen back from Iran, and try to persuade the US to hand back one of theirs. Negotiating good deals with the EU is way beyond our capacity, in or out of the EU. Anyway, we proved what we thought of Europe by raising two fingers of support and electing a superb group of EU enthusiasts to look after our interests in the European Parliament. But I'm rambling too far.
We'll just have to muddle through. We'd pull up the drawbridge if we could, but the mechanism's broken, and the ropes are too frayed. At times like this all we can do is laugh and carry on regardless. Chins up. We're British. Until the Scots and Irish go their own ways, then we're the brave English with only the Welsh left to upset. (Although Yorkshire and Cornwall could be next. Bring back Mercia.)
Peter Kelford
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China solved their similarly farcical problem with air carriers (not having capable generators for hotel power) by building two new carriers that are by all definitions a bit excessively equipped.
Whilst Australia repatriated two in a matter of weeks.
Who, whilst arguing that the EU is an illegal, anti-democratic superstate desecrated its anthem. Despite this, they astonishingly were still afforded the respect
of 'Madame l'Eurodéputé' at a charity gala. Quite different to a dictatorship which would have jailed them.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I just hope the Europeans are enlightened enough to see that many people in the UK are horrified by the behavior or our government and of other pro-Brexit factions, and that it isn't representative of the country as a whole.
Struner
Member
Aren’t you a European yourself?
Struner
Member
Indeed! 
I'm intrigued by the DUP getting excited about any possibility of NI remaining in (some kind) of customs union with the EU and insisting they will withhold support for any agreement that included this.
The fact that NI voted to remain in the EU and the customs union resulting therefrom appears to have escaped the members of a party which has "democratic" in its name...
The fact that NI voted to remain in the EU and the customs union resulting therefrom appears to have escaped the members of a party which has "democratic" in its name...
Sticking Democratic in the name of your country has a history of being anything but. North Korea, East Germany.
Peter Kelford
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The 'Democratic' Republic of the Congo to name another.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Indeed, it is the sot of thing that should have been debated back in early 2016. Sadly both campaigns instead chose to engage in a playground spat.
I know, a bit like the US the rest of the world is looking at the UK chuckling whilst slowly shaking their heads. It is incredible to think that there are people in this country that actually want a no deal scenario to happen, one which pretty much anyone with a few operational brain cells can see will leave us worse off than we are now. Brexit has made this country a laughing stock, and the pathetic attempts at negotiation from BoJo and his troop of clowns has weakened our future negotiations with just about every nation. And for what? Well so far, blue passport covers that are due to go into circulation soon, and we don't even produce those in this country!
But hey, Dunkirk spirit and all that. We'll suffer the consequences in the hope that others will too, except they won't. And this time the only relief we'll get from over the Atlantic is low quality, chlorine washed chicken. Whoopie-blumming-do.....!!!!
Quite honestly, given the fact that we are still stumbling towards a chaotic exit, and that Nigel <insert expletive here> Farage is still getting cult like status from a significant minority of this country, & still being in charge of the majority of our MEPs, I honestly think they really do believe we are a nation of idiots. Certainly from those people I've talked too in a number of EU countries really struggle to understand quite what we are doing to ourselves. And they are not alone, because I'm really struggling to understand it myself. I'm just going to put it out there that quite honestly the only reason I can see for anyone still banging the Brexit drum is some kind of ill conceived jingoism.
thejuggler
Member
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The fact this has been "agreed" so quickly to enter intense negotiations suggests it is a solution which is in no way novel.
Once the details come out I suspect it will be either a backstop solution, or customs in the Irish Sea, but both termed differently. Regardless it won't take long for someone to call out the King for having no clothes on.
Boris is now on 'election' mode. He needs a deal to get voted in for 5 years and any old deal will do.
Once the details come out I suspect it will be either a backstop solution, or customs in the Irish Sea, but both termed differently. Regardless it won't take long for someone to call out the King for having no clothes on.
Boris is now on 'election' mode. He needs a deal to get voted in for 5 years and any old deal will do.
Who exactly?
No-one apart from some extreme right wing nutter elements. Even relatively right wing 'ruling' parties in Italy, Hungary, Poland etc have rowed back from many of their anti-EU positions. Its just a Brexiteer wet dream that the whole EUs about to fall apart, part of their echo chamber bullcr@p that they meme to each other constantly.
cactustwirly
Established Member
I don't believe for a second that Italy were genuinely considering leaving the EU, same goes for Hungary
DaleCooper
Established Member
Who remembers "Nexit" being a thing? How was a hard border going to work for Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau?
Is that the place with a fragmented border?
Howardh
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In the old days it had it's complications. Although you were unlikely to be asked for your passport to being the milk in, shops and restaurants that straddled the border had (a) parts of the shops where stuff was sold under one tax regime, and where there were laws regarding opening/closing time you could only have a beer on one side of the room. people straddling the border could decide which country they paid tax to by altering the position of their front door - ie if it were cheaper to be in Belgium then you built your front door on the Belgian side of the line.Who remembers "Nexit" being a thing? How was a hard border going to work for Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau?
Wish we had something similar here after Brexit where your own house could be either inside or outside the EU!
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