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Do Northern have an EMU shortage again?

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DJH1971

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Seems that more services of late that are usually booked for 319's and 323's are 2 car DMU's.

The 1528 Liverpool to Crewe on Thursday was just a 2 car 156 that was so badly packed staff could not let everyone on.

Today's 1645 Liverpool to Wigan and 1700 Liverpool to Earlestown are also 2 car DMU's.

Ate teething troubles flaring up again?
 
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js1000

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The 319s are suffering faults which is resulting in DMUs having to cover some services. The problems are substantial enough that they have been noted by certain parties - Transport for Greater Manchester for example in August meeting minutes. It's only going to get worse with 323s going for refurb, leaf season and the 331s may help somewhat but they are not going to faultless as teething problems are bound to occur.
 

DJH1971

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The 319s are suffering faults which is resulting in DMUs having to cover some services. The problems are substantial enough that they have been noted by certain parties - Transport for Greater Manchester for example in August meeting minutes. It's only going to get worse with 323s going for refurb, leaf season and the 331s may help somewhat but they are not going to faultless as teething problems are bound to occur.
Had a sneaking suspicion it would be the 319's again.

They should have ordered more 331's.
 

Bertie the bus

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They should have ordered more 331's.
Perhaps they should try getting some of the ones they've got in service. They've got enough of them. They claimed early last year 331s would be operating Manchester Airport - Blackpool services as soon as electrification was complete. It was complete about 7 months ago and not a single 331.
 

XC90

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Maybe they could lease some 365s to see them through winter?
 

507 001

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Maybe they could lease some 365s to see them through winter?

They’re in an even worse state by the sounds of it.

Things will be better once the 331s are introduced on more services. They’re only working LIV-Blackpools at the moment, but should be on the stoppers come December according to a friendly guard I know.
 

DJH1971

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They’re in an even worse state by the sounds of it.

Things will be better once the 331s are introduced on more services. They’re only working LIV-Blackpools at the moment, but should be on the stoppers come December according to a friendly guard I know.
There was a 331 put on the 1600 Liverpool to Earlestown service last Thursday though.
 

Kite159

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They’re in an even worse state by the sounds of it.

Things will be better once the 331s are introduced on more services. They’re only working LIV-Blackpools at the moment, but should be on the stoppers come December according to a friendly guard I know.

The 331s popped up on Wigan stopper yesterday and I think even one ended up on a Warrington stopper.
 

156420

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As mentioned in other threads, the above is booked to happen.

Should see a lot more in the next few weeks on the stoppers + Chat Moss services to Crewe.
 

Bovverboy

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The 331s popped up on Wigan stopper yesterday and I think even one ended up on a Warrington stopper.

331s have been diagrammed for Liverpool - Wigan since 9/9/19 (0546 & 0743 journeys) - I presume, Mondays to Saturdays. The 1045, 1515, and 1713 journeys were added w.e.f. 30/9/19. The 1302 Warrington was added 30/9/19, too.
The 1600 Earlestown isn't on a 331 diagram at the moment, as far as I know, so it would be interesting to know what else the one doing it last Thursday also did.
 

Bovverboy

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323s have suffered a nose dive in reliability also since being moved from Longsight.
Sam

I've been following Northern's 'Journey Check' and haven't seen any accounts of a 3-car unit having been substituted by a 2-car. That, of course, doesn't mean that a 319 couldn't have gone on to a 323 diagram and the 319 in turn been replaced by a DMU, but I don't think that would happen, I think a missing 323 would be directly replaced by a diesel.
The morning Alderley Edge to Piccadilly is still being DMU-operated, but that is ostensibly to cover the 323 currently away for refurb.
 

DJH1971

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331s have been diagrammed for Liverpool - Wigan since 9/9/19 (0546 & 0743 journeys) - I presume, Mondays to Saturdays. The 1045, 1515, and 1713 journeys were added w.e.f. 30/9/19. The 1302 Warrington was added 30/9/19, too.
The 1600 Earlestown isn't on a 331 diagram at the moment, as far as I know, so it would be interesting to know what else the one doing it last Thursday also did.

The destination display at the front of the train did show Earlestown.
 

Bovverboy

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319380 has failed on 5K61 05:33 SPT-SOT producing an interesting rescue by 323228.

Interesting from an enthusiast's viewpoint, no doubt, but not much fun for everyday travellers, whose first Northern train of the day to Manchester appears to have been the 0856. (0624 cancelled, 0658 & 0756 cancelled Stoke - Macclesfield). Whether or not they would have been able to use XC is something which would have had to be determined, but from Kidsgrove the first Manchester-bound train of any description appears to have been the 0903.
 

sprinterguy

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319380 has failed on 5K61 05:33 SPT-SOT producing an interesting rescue by 323228.
Ah, so that was the number of the 319 involved. I thought the sight of a 319 rolling into platform 1 at Stoke concurrent with my southbound train being routed into the 'Down' platform 2 was unusual, I didn't realise just how unusual until I saw what was hauling it!
 
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AMD

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Should see a lot more in the next few weeks on the stoppers + Chat Moss services to Crewe.
Can see them going out to Earlestown at short notice as it's a Lime Street job, however no 331s are planned on the Crewes as that would involve training up Piccadilly crew which hasn't happened.
Long term the 331s will be doing the Liverpool - Blackpools and Blackpool - Manchester routes with the 319s and 323s covering stoppers and Chat Moss work (and 2021 will see the back of the 319s).
 

Bovverboy

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There was a 331 put on the 1600 Liverpool to Earlestown service last Thursday though.

Can see them going out to Earlestown at short notice as it's a Lime Street job

According to RTT, whatever worked the 1600 Earlestown last Thursday continued with the normal progression, i.e. 1718 Lime Street - Manchester Victoria. Could a 331 have done that, or not? I appreciate that platform changes don't always show.

P.S. There looks to be two 2-car DMUs on Liverpool - Blackpool at the moment, one replacing a 331 and one a 319. There's also a 2-car diesel doing Blackpool - Hazel Grove (replacing a 319, of course).
 

Bovverboy

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319380 has failed on 5K61 05:33 SPT-SOT producing an interesting rescue by 323228.

Interesting from an enthusiast's viewpoint, no doubt, but not much fun for everyday travellers, whose first Northern train of the day to Manchester appears to have been the 0856. (0624 cancelled, 0658 & 0756 cancelled Stoke - Macclesfield). Whether or not they would have been able to use XC is something which would have had to be determined, but from Kidsgrove the first Manchester-bound train of any description appears to have been the 0903.

Regulars for the 0624 are having a rough time this week, it's been cancelled again today, this time through driver shortage. Strangely, the return working (0927 Blackpool North - Hazel Grove) is showing as operating.
 

Bovverboy

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The 2313 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport was apparently cancelled last night so an extra 319 would have stayed at Blackpool overnight, that is where the unit for the 0927 has been found. Makes you wonder if the cancellation of this morning's 0624 ex-Stoke was really down to driver shortage.
 

Energy

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Doesn't look good for Northern, just as operator of last resort is getting sorted out for them their 319s seem to be having issues...
 

Jamesrob637

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The 21:34 Wilmslow to Liverpool last night was a 156 vs 319. Hardly an issue at that time on a Wednesday evening, but would be an issue at other times.
 

Class455

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If Northern have an EMU shortage, it certainly hasn't been helped by the fact that 319446 has returned off lease.
 

Southern Dvr

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Also they’ve not been helped by having several parked up 319s at Long Marston that for a long time we’re not in the Flex/769 programme that they could have utilised but didn’t.
 

Jamesrob637

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Draughty and old 319s may be, at least the service is guaranteed 4-car!
 

156420

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Can see them going out to Earlestown at short notice as it's a Lime Street job, however no 331s are planned on the Crewes as that would involve training up Piccadilly crew which hasn't happened.
Long term the 331s will be doing the Liverpool - Blackpools and Blackpool - Manchester routes with the 319s and 323s covering stoppers and Chat Moss work (and 2021 will see the back of the 319s).

Piccadilly are definitely signing 331’s (or next week could be interesting!)

Manchester Victoria crew don’t sign them (yet!) and as a result lose most of their Chat Moss work from next week.
 
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