TRIVIA: Practices that are peculiar to the UK

DaleCooper · 13 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
They didn't have to 'refurbish any old kit'. The new signs were put up in advance. All they had to do on the changeover weekend was to uncover the new signs and cover up the old signs.

I wonder if they missed any.

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Meerkat · 13 Oct 2019

Wikipedia suggests the UK road network is over four times as long, implying eight times as many signs.
And you haven’t given any advantages to changing. Don’t need to give advantages for the do nothing option, your plan has to be shown to be better.

If you are putting up new signs first then that is a lot of pavement being dug up, and a lot of extra posts as they have to both be up at the same time.

Howardh · 13 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Wikipedia suggests the UK road network is over four times as long, implying eight times as many signs.
And you haven’t given any advantages to changing. Don’t need to give advantages for the do nothing option, your plan has to be shown to be better.

If you are putting up new signs first then that is a lot of pavement being dug up, and a lot of extra posts as they have to both be up at the same time.

If Sweden can manage changing from driving on the left to right....!!

transmanche · 13 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
And you haven’t given any advantages to changing

To be honest, the arguments for change have been made many times over the years. A few from the top of my head:

Safety. When non-UK vehicles drive on UK roads, they have speedometers that only show km/h. Approx 3 million foreign-registered vehicles drive on UK roads every year.
Buses, coaches and lorries over 3.5 tonnes have speed limiters that are already calibrated in km/h.
Digital tachographs display and record only in km and km/h.
Tram speed limits are in km/h.
Safety. Speed limits in multiples of 10 km/h allow better 'fine-tuning' of speed limits appropriate for the circumstances. Right now we have 20/30/40/50/60/70 mph options. With metrication, we have options ranging from 30 km/h (19mph) to 120 km/h (74 mph).
Everyone else uses km. Our political masters keep telling us that we are about to become 'Global Britain'. So why not join the rest of the world in using the same measurement system?

Meerkat said:
If you are putting up new signs first then that is a lot of pavement being dug up, and a lot of extra posts as they have to both be up at the same time.

There was no digging up of pavements to put new posts next to old posts. You might like to do some research to find out how the changeover was achieved, before passing judgement on something you clearly know nothing about.

The new posts were additional posts, extra speed limit signs in places where there were no signs before. These simply needed to be uncovered during the changeover weekend. The existing signs simply needed to be covered over with the new speed limit in km/h.

Howardh · 13 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
To be honest, the arguments for change have been made many times over the years. A few from the top of my head:

Safety. When non-UK vehicles drive on UK roads, they have speedometers that only show km/h. Approx 3 million foreign-registered vehicles drive on UK roads every year.

Buses, coaches and lorries over 3.5 tonnes have speed limiters that are already calibrated in km/h.

Digital tachographs display and record only in km and km/h.

Tram speed limits are in km/h.

Safety. Speed limits in multiples of 10 km/h allow better 'fine-tuning' of speed limits appropriate for the circumstances. Right now we have 20/30/40/50/60/70 mph options. With metrication, we have options ranging from 30 km/h (19mph) to 120 km/h (74 mph).

Everyone else uses km. Our political masters keep telling us that we are about to become 'Global Britain'. So why not join the rest of the world in using the same measurement system?

There was no digging up of pavements to put new posts next to old posts. You might like to do some research to find out how the changeover was achieved, before passing judgement on something you clearly know nothing about.

The new posts were additional posts, extra speed limit signs in places where there were no signs before. These simply needed to be uncovered during the changeover weekend. The existing signs simply needed to be covered over with the new speed limit in km/h.

Eventually I suppose the UK will turn over to completely variable speed limits where road limits change locally due to the weather, school times etc, so they will all be electronic, even the repeaters. In which case it would be easy to transfer to Km/h, although personally I prefer MPH.

PR1Berske · 13 Oct 2019

Ianno87 said:
The UK is possibly unique in attempting some weird hybrid carbuncle of the two. We buy petrol on litres, but cars always do "miles per gallon", for example.

Never understood why we're so frightemed of going the whole hog to metric.

I remember a petition being set up which claimed going metric was a plot by the EU to get rid of all things British.

Ianno87 · 13 Oct 2019

PR1Berske said:
I remember a petition being set up which claimed going metric was a plot by the EU to get rid of all things British.

Excuse me whilst I go bang my head repeatedly against a hard surface....

zuriblue · 13 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
To be honest, the arguments for change have been made many times over the years. A few from the top of my head:

Safety. When non-UK vehicles drive on UK roads, they have speedometers that only show km/h. Approx 3 million foreign-registered vehicles drive on UK roads every year.

Buses, coaches and lorries over 3.5 tonnes have speed limiters that are already calibrated in km/h.

Digital tachographs display and record only in km and km/h.

Tram speed limits are in km/h.

Safety. Speed limits in multiples of 10 km/h allow better 'fine-tuning' of speed limits appropriate for the circumstances. Right now we have 20/30/40/50/60/70 mph options. With metrication, we have options ranging from 30 km/h (19mph) to 120 km/h (74 mph).

Everyone else uses km. Our political masters keep telling us that we are about to become 'Global Britain'. So why not join the rest of the world in using the same measurement system?

There was no digging up of pavements to put new posts next to old posts. You might like to do some research to find out how the changeover was achieved, before passing judgement on something you clearly know nothing about.

The new posts were additional posts, extra speed limit signs in places where there were no signs before. These simply needed to be uncovered during the changeover weekend. The existing signs simply needed to be covered over with the new speed limit in km/h.

Remember in 1967 Sweden changed from driving on the left to driving on the right. That was a bit more involved than Ireland changing from Mph to Km/h.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

Enthusiast · 13 Oct 2019

Howardh said:
If Sweden can manage changing from driving on the left to right....!!

Yes. The government has decided it cannot be achieved in a single swoop and has developed a phased implementation. Lorries and buses change over to right hand running on April 1st, vans and small commercial vehicles on April 8th, cars on April 15th and finally motorcycles and cycles on April 23rd.

PeterC · 13 Oct 2019

Enthusiast said:
Yes. The government has decided it cannot be achieved in a single swoop and has developed a phased implementation. Lorries and buses change over to right hand running on April 1st, vans and small commercial vehicles on April 8th, cars on April 15th and finally motorcycles and cycles on April 23rd.

Don't cyclists switch from left to right on odd and even dates already?

PG · 13 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
Doubt all you wish. But they did exactly that!

58,000 signs in total. If you had a team of 500 people working, they'd only need to do 116 signs each over the weekend.

I wasn't doubting that the Irish managed it... more that the UK councils would struggle with it! I guess if the funding was available private contractors would happily turn out to do them all in one weekend

PeterC · 13 Oct 2019

PR1Berske said:
I remember a petition being set up which claimed going metric was a plot by the EU to get rid of all things British.

Of course, every badly implemented or upopular regulation is blamed on the EU.

transmanche · 13 Oct 2019

PR1Berske said:
I remember a petition being set up which claimed going metric was a plot by the EU to get rid of all things British.

A parliamentary bill that would have made using metric weights and measures compulsory across the British Empire reached its committee stage in 1863!

PG · 13 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
A parliamentary bill that would have made using metric weights and measures compulsory across the British Empire reached its committee stage in 1863!

So it only took another 137 years to come into effect! (for loose goods, prepackaged goods came after only 132 years)

Billy A · 13 Oct 2019

PG said:
My teenage daughter uses feet and inches for height (especially since she passed my height!)

Even if the councils had the new signs erected but covered up I doubt they'd be able to get round in a single weekend ripping the covers off and spraying out the old mph signs - unless they didn't have any tea breaks

It wasn't a big deal - speed limit signs are just panels bolted onto poles so you just unscrew one and put on the other. It only took a few minutes per sign.

Billy A · 13 Oct 2019

Howardh said:
Large mugs of coffee; far better than the thimblefuls you get ont' continent (or at least in the past)!

I've been to Sweden. Coffee is not so much served as made available to you. Large cups are very much a thing and better yet the coffee is usually with free refills as you just pour your own from a pot. Unless of course you've gone all fancy and ordered something produced by an espresso machine.

Marton · 13 Oct 2019

Ianno87 said:
The UK is possibly unique in attempting some weird hybrid carbuncle of the two. We buy petrol on litres, but cars always do "miles per gallon", for example.

Never understood why we're so frightemed of going the whole hog to metric.

Canada is a metric county with lots of imperial measures when things cross from the US.

Being Canadians they cope

najaB · 14 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
... a handful of former UK colonies in the Caribbean...

Which ones? We all use metric AFAIK. Certainly I was never taught any non-metric units.

Meerkat · 14 Oct 2019

That is a very weak list of advantages, compared to the cost, logistics and political stress of doing it.
For a start it old be a bit like decimalisation- there would be a very valid fear that the swap would be used to make changes, price rises then, speed limit cuts now.

najaB · 14 Oct 2019

The UK is very much like the USA in respect of Imperial measurements, just less so:

Calthrop · 14 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
A parliamentary bill that would have made using metric weights and measures compulsory across the British Empire reached its committee stage in 1863!

I have seen it suggested that metre gauge was adopted for India's secondary-main-line systems -- development of which was getting under way about then -- as a sop to those in Britain who were at that time, lobbying enthusiastically for metricisation.

transmanche · 14 Oct 2019

najaB said:
Which ones? We all use metric AFAIK. Certainly I was never taught any non-metric units.

Bahamas, Belize, St Lucia...

transmanche · 14 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
That is a very weak list of advantages, compared to the cost, logistics and political stress of doing it.

That's just your opinion. And I did say they were just a few reasons off the top of my head. Feel free to do your own research.

As for the cost? Insignificant when compared with the amount of money the current government is 'spaffing up the wall'. Logistics? Ireland proved it was easy. Political stress? Only luddites who somehow feel that miles are part of their 'identity' will be bothered.

najaB · 14 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
Bahamas, Belize, St Lucia...

I'm not sure about The Bahamas or Belize but St Lucia has been mostly metric for years and passed an act of parliament in 2005 for full metrification.

Meerkat · 14 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
As for the cost? Insignificant when compared with the amount of money the current government is 'spaffing up the wall'. Logistics? Ireland proved it was easy. Political stress? Only luddites who somehow feel that miles are part of their 'identity' will be bothered.

Insignificant costs are still costs to be justified. Ireland is not comparable in scale.
Insulting people for not wanting a near pointless change isn’t really constructive, particularly if you are telling them their culture is irrelevant.

transmanche · 14 Oct 2019

najaB said:
St Lucia has been mostly metric for years and passed an act of parliament in 2005 for full metrification.

I just saw it on a St Lucia car rental site.

Speed limits are posted in miles. Typical St. Lucian speed limits are: city areas 10-15 mph, rural areas 30 mph, major highways - 40 mph. Always check the signs to be sure you're not exceeding the limit.

Obviously well out-of-date - and shows that even fewer countries still use miles.

najaB · 14 Oct 2019

transmanche said:
Obviously well out-of-date - and shows that even fewer countries still use miles.

They're a bit like the UK in that weight and measures are, for the most part, metric but speed limits are imperial.

As an example, their largest food supplier switched to metric almost ten years ago: https://usma.org/recent-international-metric-advances:

Consolidated Foods Limited is the first company in St. Lucia’s retail, wholesale, and distribution businesses to go metric, according to a report in the St. Lucia Star. (St. Lucia is an island nation in the eastern Caribbean Sea.) As of 7 February 2010, the company’s Super J and Mega J markets, as well as its warehouses, switched to metric measurements, well ahead of the June 2010 deadline set by the government for conversion.

The company began the process last year with help from St. Lucia’s Metrication Secretariat and the Saint Lucia Bureau of Standards. According to the Star, The process was a very challenging one. It meant converting all measuring instruments, checkout lanes, and the company’s extensive databases of products to metric. Such an undertaking took the collaborative effort of an internal team comprising members of various departments diligently working over the last few months.

Also, if they're anything like home, printer paper will be letter/legal and hardware items like screws and bolts will be in inches - because most of our supplies come from the USA.

transmanche · 14 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Insignificant costs are still costs to be justified. Ireland is not comparable in scale.

You claimed that the size of the UK road network would require eight times as many signs as Ireland. So the €5 million cost would be multiplied by eight making the cost about €40 million. I'd say that's a rather small cost for the number of lives it would save over time, not to mention things like the costs incurred by vehicle manufacturers in having to fit mph speedometers solely for UK cars.

Meerkat said:
Insulting people for not wanting a near pointless change isn’t really constructive, particularly if you are telling them their culture is irrelevant.

If you feel that having miles on roadsigns is part of your 'cultural identity', then you have my pity.

Meerkat · 14 Oct 2019

Not sure how any lives would be saved.
If you don’t value other people’s cultural identity then you have my pity.
I thought diversity was supposed to be a good thing these days so why the expensive desire for conformity?

transmanche · 14 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Not sure how any lives would be saved.

Perhaps you'd like to read what I wrote.

Meerkat said:
If you don’t value other people’s cultural identity then you have my pity.

Oh I do value people's cultural identity. But units of measure are not part of a cultural identity. And if you're trying to base one on that, it's a bit pathetic.

Meerkat said:
I thought diversity was supposed to be a good thing these days so why the expensive desire for conformity?

Oh I know. How about we all invent our own individual units of measure? That would be fun!

TRIVIA: Practices that are peculiar to the UK

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