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Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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61653 HTAFC

61653 HTAFC

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yorksrob said:
I'm not so sure. They all tend to rattle on, to a lesser or greater extent, so get rod of the ones that are most diabolical for the passenger first.
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The ones most diabolical for the passenger are the ones that don't turn up because they've broken down. The MerseyTravel units are horrible but we've coped with them for 20-odd years*. If they're in better mechanical shape then we can continue to cope for a few more weeks.

*=admittedly 20-odd years ago I could fit in the seats! :oops:
 
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Bovverboy

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Killingworth said:
"By next Monday we will have 29 of our 101 new trains in service for customers"
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Peter Mugridge said:
Would that be 29 units in total available for service rather than 29 daily diagrams running?
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Whichever way, it means that not all the Leeds - Chester diagrams will be going 195, although I don't know whether or not that was intended anyway.
I make the current M/F turnout of Civitys as follows.

7 x 195 on Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere
5 x 195 on Manchester Airport - Liverpool
3 x 331 on Liverpool - Blackpool/Wigan
3 x 331 on Leeds - Doncaster
2 x 331 on Leeds/Bradford/Skipton/Ilkley

Total 20. So even if David Brown's total of 29 means 29 daily diagrams, there aren't going to be enough additional ones to cover 9 x 195 on Leeds - Chester, extra 331s on Liverpool - Blackpool, and some 331s on Crewe stoppers.
 
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Bikeman78

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palmersears said:
On the contrary, surely by withdrawing the most mechanically battered ones they're ensuring the remaining fleet can keep going with fewer periods of downtime, in theory reducing cancellations and short forms as a result, which the travelling public are most concerned about?
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Unfortunately the most reliable examples usually run out of miles fastest and therefore have to be withdrawn once heavy maintenance stops. The wrecks that break down all the time spend half their life on depot so it takes longer to reach the drop dead mileage. 37412 was a good example. It was well overdue an overhaul but it hardly ever broke down so it racked up high engine hours. Other examples that failed more frequently lingered on because their engine hours were much lower.
 
Jozhua

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Bikeman78 said:
Unfortunately the most reliable examples usually run out of miles fastest and therefore have to be withdrawn once heavy maintenance stops. The wrecks that break down all the time spend half their life on depot so it takes longer to reach the drop dead mileage. 37412 was a good example. It was well overdue an overhaul but it hardly ever broke down so it racked up high engine hours. Other examples that failed more frequently lingered on because their engine hours were much lower.
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Oh dear, I guess it's a safety thing, they require heavy maintenance after a certain number of miles?

If its more of an operational thing and a quick kick of the wheels is all that's necessary, then it's pretty dumb to withdraw the more reliable units
 
yorksrob

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156420 said:
Yeah, it’s not like Exam Tolerance, Classified Maintenance/Overhaul dates make any difference to the withdrawal dates!
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Try sitting on one of the damn things for an hour and forty minutes and say that.
 
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Bikeman78

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Jozhua said:
Oh dear, I guess it's a safety thing, they require heavy maintenance after a certain number of miles?

If its more of an operational thing and a quick kick of the wheels is all that's necessary, then it's pretty dumb to withdraw the more reliable units
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A and B exams are mileage based. Not sure if C exams, which only happen once every few years, are time or mileage based. There is some flexibility with the bodywork overhauls (I think they are C6) because the 317s used to have them roughly once every seven years but some of the 317/6 have passed eight years now.
 
sprinterguy

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geoffk said:
I thought it was 144s which were staying but these three routes are Manchester-based and so only have 142s. It seems that there are additional routes keeping 144s.
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Northern will be hard pressed to provide any kind of comprehensive train service if they don't keep 142s running into 2020.

I feel it's worth noting that, on the original withdrawal schedule, yesterday was the day that the final Northern Pacer, of class 142 or class 144, was due to be withdrawn, and it's now over a year since the first withdrawals were supposed to have been made. To date, just one Pacer has been fully withdrawn from service, and it seems to me that that was more for publicity reasons than practical ones.

I'm led to believe that next Monday, October 21st, is a day to watch for more new train introductions, but with the end of the year, and the PRM-TSI deadline, not so far away now it seems unlikely that Northern would be able to withdraw 79 class 142 units from service in 11 weeks rather than the 11 - 12 months that was originally planned.

On another note though, there seemed to be fewer Pacers evident around the north east while I've been up there over the past few days. Only former Newton Heath unit 142012 presented itself on a service I travelled on, my Dad greeting its mid-eighties interior with astonishment as if it was something out of the ark, being unaware that twenty first century local rail travel could still be like this.
 
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Bertie the bus

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sprinterguy said:
I'm led to believe that next Monday, October 21st, is a day to watch for more new train introductions, but with the end of the year, and the PRM-TSI deadline, not so far away now it seems unlikely that Northern would be able to withdraw 79 class 142 units from service in 11 weeks rather than the 11 - 12 months that was originally planned.
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It isn't unlikely; it isn't going to happen. In July they said there would be 70 new units in service by the end of this year and they would be keeping the 144s until next spring/summer. Now they have said only 50 new units will be in service this year. That means a significant number of 142s which will be working the services quoted in the North West.
 
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Eye of York

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Ive heard that 142 005 is back in service. Does anyone know what paths it is operating on? Will I see it in York?
 
yorksrob

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Since the 144's will be with us well into next year, can they please have a deep clean and spruce up. The one I was on recently was looking a bit careworn.
 
simon7929

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The way things are going, and the fact that 144s can be modified to the criteria of the new regulations. It wouldn't surprise me if Northern kept them for the foreseeable future?
 
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I think 005 is also missing an engine. No way would Northern risk the terrible press of having it back in service, one had to go, did it need to? Probably not but image trumps unit requirements clearly
 
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Just out of interest. Unit 142046 was in store at Heaton but was seen a few weeks later operating in the Doncater area. Anybody know if this unit has returned to the Newcastle depot or is it running around in everyday service? The other 5 stored units except 142066 have appeared in the NE area for the odd day or so in service but returned back to the said depot on the evening to be stored once more.
 
cactustwirly

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simon7929 said:
Just out of interest. Unit 142046 was in store at Heaton but was seen a few weeks later operating in the Doncater area. Anybody know if this unit has returned to the Newcastle depot or is it running around in everyday service? The other 5 stored units except 142066 have appeared in the NE area for the odd day or so in service but returned back to the said depot on the evening to be stored once more.
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Hope Northern gave them a good clean before moving them out of warm store.
Pacers aren't exactly watertight, so having sat for days/weeks in stagnant water isn't great
 
deltic14

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simon7929 said:
Just out of interest. Unit 142046 was in store at Heaton but was seen a few weeks later operating in the Doncater area. Anybody know if this unit has returned to the Newcastle depot or is it running around in everyday service? The other 5 stored units except 142066 have appeared in the NE area for the odd day or so in service but returned back to the said depot on the evening to be stored once more.
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Worked the 17:13 Man Vic - Kirkby with its usual partner 040 today.
 
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