Onboard announcements on buses set to become standard?

py_megapixel · 13 Oct 2019

London has had iBus for a while now, and it seems that onboard announcements are appearing on more and more buses outside London.

The Lakesider tourist buses from Bowness-on-Windermere to Grasmere, operated by Stagecoach, have acquired next-stop announcements in a female voice, followed by commentary about the area in a male voice.
The First Greater Manchester Vantage routes in Manchester have dot-matrix displays with a text-to-speech voice reading out stop names.
New Arriva Sapphire buses appear to be fitted with displays which would presumably facilitate such a system in the future.
New ADL Enviro400s for Stagecoach appear to be fitted with the same displays as the Lakesider.

Is it likely that, over the next few years, onboard announcements will become a standard on buses throughout the country?
Also, how to drivers feel about having to listen to the same words in the same voice over and over again throughout the day?

RailUK Forums

Driver362 · 13 Oct 2019

Yes I believe they are along with visual announcements one for hearing impaired and one for sight impaired. Believe it going to be part of DDA

Bletchleyite · 13 Oct 2019

It's an excellent feature. One of the more awkward things about using buses is knowing where to get off in an unfamiliar area.

Ianno87 · 13 Oct 2019

In Cambridge (admittedly probably more tech-savvy than the average place) people unfamiliar with routes just seem in the habit of tracing their journey on Google Maps to know when to get off.

Deerfold · 13 Oct 2019

py_megapixel said:
New Arriva Sapphire buses appear to be fitted with displays which would presumably facilitate such a system in the future.

I've travelled on Sapphire journeys in Leicester which had it, though they didn't last time I visited.

Deerfold · 13 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It's an excellent feature. One of the more awkward things about using buses is knowing where to get off in an unfamiliar area.

Although what does need to be sorted out is the names of stops. Some local to me have up to 4 different names - on screens on buses, as fare stages on tickets, in timetables and on the stop themselves.

In London there was a project to synchronise these (and standardise naming) before iBus was installed.

DunsBus · 13 Oct 2019

Perryman's tried it on 12 Versas bought in 2013 for their Scottish Borders contracts. It didn't last long as not many drivers knew how to set it correctly. The screens are still fitted to the Versas, but not used.

PeterC · 13 Oct 2019

Ianno87 said:
In Cambridge (admittedly probably more tech-savvy than the average place) people unfamiliar with routes just seem in the habit of tracing their journey on Google Maps to know when to get off.

Google maps shows where you are but won't warn you that the route is about to take a mega diversion through a nearby housing estate.

About 4 or 5 years ago I was in Durham and had the bus route back to my hotel marked on Google maps so I could follow not only where I was but where I was about to go. I have no idea now how I did it and would like to be able to find the service again.

EDIT
I think it was an app that has been discontinued that I had on my previous phone. Google Transit seems to do the trick but is a bit clunky to use on my phone.

Bletchleyite · 13 Oct 2019

DunsBus said:
Perryman's tried it on 12 Versas bought in 2013 for their Scottish Borders contracts. It didn't last long as not many drivers knew how to set it correctly. The screens are still fitted to the Versas, but not used.

It usually suffers from the classic British bus operation attitude problem - "if the wheels turn, send it out".

radamfi · 13 Oct 2019

Onboard announcements are hardly revolutionary. Automated announcements have been standard in much of Europe for around 20 years, if not more. Before that, bus drivers used to call out the stops using the microphone. London very belatedly started them about 10 years ago.

Andyh82 · 13 Oct 2019

Go North East have audio announcements in their main branded routes, done by the same voice artist as they use in London.

Hophead · 13 Oct 2019

Brighton & Hove have had LED next-stop displays for years. The Volvo Geminis delivered in 2011 were equipped with announcements, which became standard on all following deliveries. The existing fleet was retro-fitted during 2015, since when all buses have had audio & visual next stop information.

Metrobus had their fleet similarly equipped last year.

Redmike · 13 Oct 2019

Transdev make a feature of their next stop announcements and for routes like Mainline and 464 in Lancashire actually ran a competition for local people to do the announcements. They are running this again at the moment for the 1 service in Blackburn. https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/blackburn/could-you-be-1

Over in Harrogate, Look North presenter Harry Gration does the announcements on the 36 bus.

transmanche · 13 Oct 2019

py_megapixel said:
New Arriva Sapphire buses appear to be fitted with displays which would presumably facilitate such a system in the future.

Arrive North East has been using them ever since the Sapphire buses entered service on routes such as X21/X22

Deerfold said:
Although what does need to be sorted out is the names of stops. Some local to me have up to 4 different names - on screens on buses, as fare stages on tickets, in timetables and on the stop themselves.

And then sometimes different bus companies use different names for the same stop!

PeterC said:
Google maps shows where you are but won't warn you that the route is about to take a mega diversion through a nearby housing estate.

There are far better apps for public transport than Google Maps!

I use Moovit, which alerts you when you are two stops away from your destination, again when you are one stop away and finally as you reach your stop.

xc170 · 13 Oct 2019

Next stop announcements on buses are a really good idea, in theory.

My local route, the Arriva Sapphire 110, Tamworth to Birmingham, has announcements, but the issue is, they generally only say the street name with no indication of where you actually are, so no good for anyone not local trying to work out where they are...

borage · 14 Oct 2019

Driver362 said:
Yes I believe they are along with visual announcements one for hearing impaired and one for sight impaired. Believe it going to be part of DDA

The Bus Services Act 2017 gives the DfT powers to require this for all local bus services in Great Britain: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bus-services-act-2017-accessible-information It's not clear when it will be enforced, but smaller operators and older vehicles will almost certainly be given a longer deadline.

Installing the hardware seems to be the cheaper and easier bit, compared to making sure the information is actually correct and useful.

markymark2000 · 14 Oct 2019

Does anyone else find the announcements annoying? I have Arriva Sapphire near me and the announcements got so bad that I ended up just trying to avoid the buses where possible and move to routes without announcements.

I think that the next stop displays on their own are perfectly fine.

jon0844 · 14 Oct 2019

markymark2000 said:
Does anyone else find the announcements annoying? I have Arriva Sapphire near me and the announcements got so bad that I ended up just trying to avoid the buses where possible and move to routes without announcements.

I think that the next stop displays on their own are perfectly fine.

I think the annoying nature of announcements that might be very frequent in locations with many bus stops close together will always be outranked by the benefit to the visually impaired, or even just those who cannot see the display.

I suppose the volume level and the type of voice can reduce the 'annoyance', or else you just buy some noise cancelling headphones.

markymark2000 · 14 Oct 2019

jon0844 said:
I think the annoying nature of announcements that might be very frequent in locations with many bus stops close together will always be outranked by the benefit to the visually impaired, or even just those who cannot see the display.

I suppose the volume level and the type of voice can reduce the 'annoyance', or else you just buy some noise cancelling headphones.

I disagree (obviously). Can we not put like some headphone jacks in somewhere and those who insist on listening to the onboard announcements can do so via their own head phones so we don't all have to listen to them (with braile of course so people know where they are). They are just constant as most stops in city centres then end up with 'exit here for' extensions and it's just never ending. Alternatively, isn't there schemes whereby if you turn hearing aids to certain positions, it tells you where you are. Sure there were some schemes in city centres for that. Just work that somehow with the next stop system.

radamfi · 14 Oct 2019

xc170 said:
Next stop announcements on buses are a really good idea, in theory.

My local route, the Arriva Sapphire 110, Tamworth to Birmingham, has announcements, but the issue is, they generally only say the street name with no indication of where you actually are, so no good for anyone not local trying to work out where they are...

The idea is that you find out the name of your alighting stop before you get on. Same as getting on a train. You can follow the stops using an app. Sometimes there is a network map available which shows the stops.

Terry Tait · 14 Oct 2019

So we are going to have something inflicted upon us that we have done perfectly well without for the past hundred years, it's bad enough on trains.

AM9 · 14 Oct 2019

markymark2000 said:
I disagree (obviously). Can we not put like some headphone jacks in somewhere and those who insist on listening to the onboard announcements can do so via their own head phones so we don't all have to listen to them (with braile of course so people know where they are). They are just constant as most stops in city centres then end up with 'exit here for' extensions and it's just never ending. Alternatively, isn't there schemes whereby if you turn hearing aids to certain positions, it tells you where you are. Sure there were some schemes in city centres for that. Just work that somehow with the next stop system.

By your statement "... those that insist on listening to the on board announcements" implies that some people need them through choice and you find it inconvenient. You need to understand that the Equality Act requires steps to be taken to mitigate against those impairments to give some people equal opportunities. If you (presumably as a person wiithout visual or hearing impairments) find the announcements inconvenient, it is up to you to take steps to enable you to put up with it. People with visual impairments don't have the luxury of a simple fix.

markymark2000 · 14 Oct 2019

Terry Tait said:
So we are going to have something inflicted upon us that we have done perfectly well without for the past hundred years, it's bad enough on trains.

Exactly! Not wanting to exclude the partially sighted from using public transport but what happens the second these announcements stop working, we are back to square one and based on the current examples out there, 9 times out of 10, the announcements won't work and infact it will be a huge waste of money and still be no use to partially sighted or blind people.

AM9 said:
By your statement "... those that insist on listening to the on board announcements" implies that some people need them through choice and you find it inconvenient. You need to understand that the Equality Act requires steps to be taken to mitigate against those impairments to give some people equal opportunities. If you (presumably as a person wiithout visual or hearing impairments) find the announcements inconvenient, it is up to you to take steps to enable you to put up with it. People with visual impairments don't have the luxury of a simple fix.

Ok, fair enough, take steps to help them. If you ask the driver very nicely, i'm sure they will be kind enough to let you know when it is your stop.... Anyone would think visually impaired people have only been around for 10 years. How did anyone cope 20 years ago. No DDA, no announcements, not even an app to help you with where you are.

It's another example of how the minority is inconveniencing the majority. I am all for equality but it's all extra costs to operators and where do the extra costs end up? On the fare payer. The visually impaired get on with their free pass so fare rises don't affect them.

Terry Tait · 14 Oct 2019

I do not want my fares to go up anymore, I work long hours but I am not made of money, too many increases and I might as well stop working and live off the tax payer.

Deerfold · 14 Oct 2019

markymark2000 said:
Exactly! Not wanting to exclude the partially sighted from using public transport but what happens the second these announcements stop working, we are back to square one and based on the current examples out there, 9 times out of 10, the announcements won't work and infact it will be a huge waste of money and still be no use to partially sighted or blind people.

Not sure what you're suggesting here, other than we need to make sure these systems are robust.

markymark2000 said:
Ok, fair enough, take steps to help them. If you ask the driver very nicely, i'm sure they will be kind enough to let you know when it is your stop.... Anyone would think visually impaired people have only been around for 10 years. How did anyone cope 20 years ago. No DDA, no announcements, not even an app to help you with where you are.

Asking the driver works fine on little local buses.

If half a dozen people ask the driver to mention their stop on a double decker with heavy traffic, what are the odds on the driver remembering them all?

Before DDA, a significant number of people were excluded from mainstream public transport. With an aging population that would now have been affecting even more prone.

markymark2000 said:
It's another example of how the minority is inconveniencing the majority. I am all for equality but it's all extra costs to operators and where do the extra costs end up? On the fare payer. The visually impaired get on with their free pass so fare rises don't affect them.

How inconvenient are a few announcements? I agree that companies can ensure there's no more than there need to be and that they should be short and to the point - some can be annoying as they ramble on.

You seem to be all for equality so long as there's no effect on you whatsoever.

It is important that these systems are accurate and work properly and that stop names are logical and easy to look up before a journey.

py_megapixel · 14 Oct 2019

jon0844 said:
I suppose the volume level and the type of voice can reduce the 'annoyance', or else you just buy some noise cancelling headphones.

Personally I think that anything which sounds fairly natural is OK. The absolute worst is text-to-speech systems, or anything with pauses in the wrong place. Also, Stagecoach's new system seems to announce "Please ring the bell if you wish to alight" at every stop, which I would argue is not necessary

markymark2000 said:
It's another example of how the minority is inconveniencing the majority. I am all for equality but it's all extra costs to operators and where do the extra costs end up? On the fare payer. The visually impaired get on with their free pass so fare rises don't affect them.

I don't think arguing for equality until it costs money really gets anywhere. I absolutely agree that passengers should not be charged more, but inmost European cities, the announcements and screens were put in years ago, people are used to them, and state-run transport companies mean that fares can be subsidised in order to be kept down, even through service improvements.
I don't see anyone complaining about Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire, even though the introduction of these services almost certainly pushed prices up.

radamfi · 14 Oct 2019

Terry Tait said:
So we are going to have something inflicted upon us that we have done perfectly well without for the past hundred years, it's bad enough on trains.

They've been around for decades. Maybe not in your area.

James H · 14 Oct 2019

Yellow Buses in Bournemouth use an awful text-to-speech system for their announcements.

It sounds dreadful and puts the emphasis in the wrong places when announcing stop names.

To my mind it sounds cheap and careless and is a real detriment to the journey experience.

Bletchleyite · 14 Oct 2019

markymark2000 said:
Exactly! Not wanting to exclude the partially sighted from using public transport but what happens the second these announcements stop working, we are back to square one and based on the current examples out there, 9 times out of 10, the announcements won't work and infact it will be a huge waste of money and still be no use to partially sighted or blind people.

Right. So time to make it mandatory and whack bus companies with heavy penalties for their "don't give a monkey's" attitude problem which pervades most of the industry other than a few shining lights, most of which have or have had something to do with Alex Hornby at some point. If you're going to run buses, do it properly. There's really no reason service buses should not come under a set of regulations similar to PRM-TSI including audio announcements, destination displays and the likes.

If the present suppliers of the kit are delivering rubbish, then they'll have to change their tune otherwise they'll lose business. But I doubt it's that - it's that bus companies simply can't be bothered maintaining it because it isn't directly related to fares income or penalties.

Bletchleyite · 14 Oct 2019

py_megapixel said:
Personally I think that anything which sounds fairly natural is OK. The absolute worst is text-to-speech systems, or anything with pauses in the wrong place. Also, Stagecoach's new system seems to announce "Please ring the bell if you wish to alight" at every stop, which I would argue is not necessary

The slightly wordy announcements are OK on something like the Lakes 555 (where I've heard them - is it a woman or is it a kid?) because the stops are quite far apart and many users might be infrequent ones. The Lakes network really does give a good impression, and it's just part of that.

For your typical city bus, the norm elsewhere is just "<bong> stop name" with possibly added "change here for lines U1, U2 and U3" at a rail interchange, and that's spot-on. The <bong> is useful not only to add personality, but to get your attention and get you tuned in ready to hear it - if you start straight off with the announcement people tend to miss it - but "the next stop is" can be quite irritating after a while.

Onboard announcements on buses set to become standard?

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

On Moderation

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member