krus_aragon
Established Member
Could you refresh my memory, and remind me what other depots there are in the "middle" area? (Are you including the Birmingham area in this middle?)
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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia
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Westcoast-ting
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Agent_Squash
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Preston is the midpoint of the WCML so makes it ideal for the change on the Anglo-Scottish services. Would like to see FT advertise an additional stop on the WBQ fasts as an upgrade!
Please expand that last sentence into intelligible English...?
scouseyb123
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So you reckon Wolves and Preston are at risk then?
Class 170101
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The only problem with Crewe is that few services stop there now heading towards Scotland so would be interesting to see how this goes forward.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Don't local crew already start at Crewe and Holyhead? - there are certainly Welsh on-board staff on these trains.
Who crews the 3 early starters/late finishers at Holyhead if not local crew?
Who crews the 3 early starters/late finishers at Holyhead if not local crew?
Holyhead already has a traincrew depot. It just doesn’t have drivers. There are no onboard staff based at Crewe. There are plenty who live in Crewe but no actual base there.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
As part of the Line Speed Project FT are required to work with Network Rail to change the speed on some of the route by 2022.
During the franchise term, FT will introduce extra services.
There will be an increase in the frequency of trains to Liverpool with new calls at Liverpool South Parkway, Motherwell and in the Trent Valley. FT will also introduce direct services at Walsall and Gobowen and Llandudno Town. This means that FT intends to introduce a major timetable change in December 2022 which will result in an extra 260 services each week compared to today.
During the franchise term, FT will introduce extra services.
There will be an increase in the frequency of trains to Liverpool with new calls at Liverpool South Parkway, Motherwell and in the Trent Valley. FT will also introduce direct services at Walsall and Gobowen and Llandudno Town. This means that FT intends to introduce a major timetable change in December 2022 which will result in an extra 260 services each week compared to today.
4-SUB 4732
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Holyhead drivers will just mean a slight natural wastage at Liverpool and Manchester; that is of course if you don't then use the same number of drivers overall by Liverpool doing their own extra trains.
I can't see Wolverhampton or Preston being at risk. Wolverhampton is where the trains come out in the morning and go to bed at night; Preston is the only logical changeover point between Scotland and London and of course with Blackpool.
I massively doubt the start of a Crewe depot for any drivers of Train Managers.
I can't see Wolverhampton or Preston being at risk. Wolverhampton is where the trains come out in the morning and go to bed at night; Preston is the only logical changeover point between Scotland and London and of course with Blackpool.
I massively doubt the start of a Crewe depot for any drivers of Train Managers.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It will all change for HS2 anyway (assuming it gets built).
EE Andy b1
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Maybe not at risk but like Manchester Piccadilly & Liverpool LS there are going to be big changes in diagramming from December 2022 timetable, with the new Drivers depots at Holyhead April 2021 and Crewe November 2021.
All North Wales WC services are split between Manchester & Liverpool Drivers depots presently, with Euston drivers also to Chester. Onboard staff are mainly Holyhead based, with some Wolves Crews to Bangor and Euston crews to Chester. Train managers from Liverpool & Preston also cover to Chester.
Maybe this will form part of the major timetable change in December 2022!
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Yes it would, and if it ever got to Crewe this is where a major hub would be with an HS2 compatible Train maintenance depot just North of Crewe off the West Coast mainline.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Drivers/Train Managers & onboard staff from Manchester and Liverpool and maybe Wolverhampton will get the chance to relocate to the new Crewe Traincrew depot by seniority, as @driver_m has said quite a few drivers and some TMs live in the Crewe area. As well as North Wales work i'm sure some of the new Liverpool services and Euston will also be covered from Crewe.
Preston will probably stay as is for now but lose all Class 221 work, also Wolverhampton will lose all there Class 221 diagrams to Central Rivers and corresponding passenger services.
Depending on what new EMU & Bi-modes are going to be built and where the maintenance depot will be located will affect all these traincrew depots.
Class 170101
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Who signs Chester to Warrington? As some train crew clearly do when Crewe to Warrington was blocked.
EE Andy b1
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Preston Drivers and Train Managers have route knowledge Warrington to Chester via Helsby. Manchester & Liverpool used to but it was removed.
Manchester & Liverpool do the diversion route Crewe - Sandbach - Middlewich - Mouldsworth - Chester or Middlewich - Hartford Jct - Warrington.
Class 170101
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Would have to give those up I would have thought if they have no Class 221 work going forward.
EE Andy b1
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First Trenitalia are ordering 13 Bi-modes so depending what depots learn the new traction will depend on who covers the diversionary routes but could be just the new depots at Crewe and Holyhead in the future, if they get the go ahead.
XCTurbostar
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Interesting that there is no mention at all.. you would have thought they'd start to introduce something at this stage. I remember that GWR branding was introduced in FGW First Class way before the brand was publicised.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That was different because the TOC had not changed ownership. VTWC can't start using First-Trenitalia branding.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Unless specifically requested to do so by the new operator. Many EMT trains were externally re-branded EMR a few weeks before handover, etc.
First-Trenitalia have said they want to hold back on news of branding pending their big launch, so in that context it's not surprising that they're keeping things anonymous for the time being.
Agent_Squash
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If Preston was closed as a crew depot, an additional stop would be required on the Glasgow fasts, which are currently first stop Warrington. It would be hard to sell as an ‘upgrade’ apart from to/from Crewe!
When Virgin removed the Crewe stop to "improve" the service it made the service much worse for people travelling from the Midlands to stations North of Lancaster. I'd be very happy to see it brought back, even if it was just for the last train of the day.
Before Virgin dropped the Crewe stop, the last Virgin train from Crewe to north of Lancaster was 21:38 during the week. Now it's 20:09, almost 90 minutes earlier. It's even worse on Saturdays, the last direct train is 18:09, or 19:08 with a change at Preston.
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scouseyb123
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Preston is not going to be closed as a depot.
It would be a huge upgrade, doubling the number of trains passengers from north of Crewe can use to connect to other services at Crewe. This alone would be enough reason for me to fall in love with First Trenitalia if they do it.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Nobody has said Preston or any Traincrew depot would close.
If the two new Traincrew depots go ahead they will affect depot allocated work from all depots and with the new EMUs and Bi-Modes it will be the end of Class 221s on the West Coast Mainline.
Would be of great benefit for plenty people with the extra stopper at Crewe all for 3-4 minutes of time.
Clarence Yard
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Let’s be clear about it be thing. The two new depots are not going to result in any closure of other ones. There are going to be no forced transfers as a result of these new depots opening either - the unions should have been told that by now.
As for Oxhey maintenance, that stays too.
As for Oxhey maintenance, that stays too.
vikingdriver
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First do like lots of traincrew depots so I don't think anyone need worry!
Never spotted a depot at Bushey
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