sjpowermac
Established Member
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- 26 May 2018
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Yet another great image.And 68027 on 1E25, loco on the Liverpool end. View attachment 69325
Having made several journeys now on most of the sets which have seen service, I would make the following observations:
Nice interiors, very quiet compared to underfloor engined stock, as you would expect. Despite predictions, the locomotive can be heard in most of the coaches when under power, but not obtrusively. Seats OK, window alignment could be better, but if you do get a well aligned seat, the view is excellent. Not over keen on the air-con blowing up from the window sill, but so far it hasn't been too much of an issue.
Ride quality is "fidgety", the T-P route has some poor quality track which the bogies seem to struggle with, but on plain, good quality track the ride is acceptable. The coaches bottom out on their suspension quite dramatically, there's a bump in the track just west of Lea Green on the down which causes a very heavy thump down.
I'm not convinced by the end door layout for TPE's style of operation. Also, I was very surprised how narrow the entrances and vestibules are, very little room for standing pax during busy periods. Passenger flow on and off the train at busy times will be a big issue I would suggest, especially Picc platforms 13/14.
Overall? Nice train, a step up from 185's, but does it really suit frequent stop inter-urban operations? Time will show on that one.
The ride quality has been slated in a few places, as for the doors it's difficult to stroke a balance, but perhaps they'll adjust station dwells in future timetables to compensate?
I think there’s some variation in ride between the different sets. Certainly TP09 was very good when I sampled it on Saturday between York and Huddersfield, maybe there are tweaks to find the sweet spot with the sets.You can't really make dwell times much longer at Picc 13/14, the timetable can barely cope with them as they are now. Elsewhere, timings have already been eased to accommodate the mk.5's.
If you want to travel on a Class 185!Would i be right in thinking the 0932 (from vic) to Scarborough and 1507 (from York) to Lime Street will be half decent bets
You can't really make dwell times much longer at Picc 13/14, the timetable can barely cope with them as they are now. Elsewhere, timings have already been eased to accommodate the mk.5's.
I think there’s some variation in ride between the different sets. Certainly TP09 was very good when I sampled it on Saturday between York and Huddersfield, maybe there are tweaks to find the sweet spot with the sets.
Perhaps as with the 80x, the suspension just needs some tweaks to get a better ride
Don't know about tweaks but more use beds all components in properly which i think is what is happening.
TPE don't go Holyhead, so no you didn't.Are they restricted to Scarborough to Liverpool , will they appear on other routes , thought I saw Holyhead on one of the diagrams ?
You're thinking of the 397's, which are stored at Holyhead for delivery.Are they restricted to Scarborough to Liverpool , will they appear on other routes , thought I saw Holyhead on one of the diagrams ?
You're thinking of the 397's, which are stored at Holyhead for delivery.
At a guess, was Holyhead chosen due to its route being cleared for Pendolino haulage (by VT 57/3s), and the 390s/397s having a vaguely similar profile?397s were never stored at the Aluminium plant at Holyhead, two sets arrived at Imminingham docks from Europe were road hauled to Holyhead re-formed into complete sets then dragged by rail to Crewe/Longsight by ROG locomotives.
At a guess, was Holyhead chosen due to its route being cleared for Pendolino haulage (by VT 57/3s), and the 390s/397s having a vaguely similar profile?
Agreed. I thought TP06 (behind 68028 today, done from LDS to MCV) was fairly smooth-riding actually, doubly so given the hammering the route has had courtesy of Siemens' rough-riding lardbutts! The 5A sets' riding qualities definitely do vary, anyways.Don't know about tweaks but more use beds all components in properly which i think is what is happening.
I think they look great, looking forward to trying them on my next trip to Manchester. We’ve certainly come a long way since the draughty damp BR coaches with their windows stuck open and everyone freezing around 1990.Here are my thoughts on how the two compare. I have posted images/video of the Class 68 and Mk 5 in this post and I will make a separate post on the Class 802’s
View attachment 69425
View attachment 69426
What does the Class 68 hauled CAF Mk5 do better?
- The First Class on the Class 802, is basically standard class, with slightly wider seats in a 2+1, rather than 2+2 arrangement. On the Mk 5 stock the First Class felt Super Premium, at least as good as a Pendolino and not far behind that of the final GWR HST interior. The materials were really good, seats super comfy and I really liked little details like the lights blended into the table.
View attachment 69427 View attachment 69428 View attachment 69429
- The Passenger Information system on the Class 802 was surprisingly basic (No better than a Pendolino or Voyager). The CAF products have set a new standard in the UK. Bright coloured LCD panels, displaying the time, outside temperature, Real time information for both the service you are on and for trains at the destination station.
View attachment 69430
- Lighting is less harsh and less “white” than on the Class 802 and creates a more relaxing ambience. These differences are less significant in Standard Class than they are in first.
View attachment 69431 View attachment 69432
What the Class 802 does better?
- Far superior ride over the same section of track. Smooth with very little carriage roll. The CAF Mk5 really disappointed and felt as rough as the CAF 331 on this section of line. Lots of body roll and it was really hard to stand in the vestibule as we approached the station without holding on. Let’s hope they bed in but judging by reviews I’ve read about the Mk5 Caledonian sleeper coaches this may not improve significantly.
- Better alignment of table seats with windows, the CAF Mk5 may have more table seats but far more of these seats are poorly aligned.
- Leg room, even in first class I struggled to reach the window seat on the CAF Mk5 stock and had to lift the arm rests, no such problem on the Class 802. Very generous leg room in both Standard and First Class.
- Quiet and rapid acceleration (I only experienced the trains under electric power). The air conditioning system wasn’t as loud as that on the Mk5 stock or on the Pendolino’s. It was so quiet in fact I could easily overhear conversations at the opposite end of the carriage.
- I could rest my arm on the window sill (although it is narrower than a Pendolino). The annoying location of the air vent in the window sill of the Mk 5 carriages bothered me more than I expected. I instinctively kept trying to place my elbow onto the vents grill.
Where the trains are equal?
- Standard Class interior - the comfort of the standard class seats and standard of materials/finish in were very much par on both trains.
- Both have access at seat Plugs/USB sockets.
- Carriage noise (based on Class 802 under electric power and DVT coach of Mk5 stock) was very much on par.
Conclusion
If I was travelling to York from Merseyside, I would definitely favour the Class 802 if I was in Standard class, as the ride is vastly superior and I found the ride on the Mk5 (all be it not on the best section of track) to be distracting and an annoyance.
I loved the ambience of First Class on the Mk5, so if I was fortunate enough to travel First Class I would favour the Mk5 as it feels special.
I have yet to experience the Class 802 on diesel power, so the Mk5’s may well have a distinct advantage when it comes to noise levels, when crossing the Pennines. I found the DVT coach of the Mk5 stock (obviously the furthest coach from the Class 68) to be almost as quiet as the Class 802 (the difference being due to a fairly loud air conditioning system).
All in all however both trains offer a great improvement over the Class 185 Pennine Class and are true Intercity class trains.
I just hope the seats are more comfortable than the 80x ones I’ve sampled on GWR. They’re rock hard and too upright, not very relaxing at all. These first class ones look very smart indeed though
I think they look great, looking forward to trying them on my next trip to Manchester. We’ve certainly come a long way since the draughty damp BR coaches with their windows stuck open and everyone freezing around 1990.
I just hope the seats are more comfortable than the 80x ones I’ve sampled on GWR. They’re rock hard and too upright, not very relaxing at all. These first class ones look very smart indeed though
We have have to put up with some average and extremely poor rolling stock for way too long.
Some images from me on Saturday around Merseyside
68028 'Lord President' and set TP06 at Huyton
TransPennine Express 12806 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
TransPennine Express 68028 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
68027 'Superb' and set TP09 at Liverpool Lime Street
TransPennine Express 12809 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
TransPennine Express 68027 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
Here are my thoughts on how the two compare. I have posted images/video of the Class 68 and Mk 5 in this post and I will make a separate post on the Class 802’s
View attachment 69425
View attachment 69426
What does the Class 68 hauled CAF Mk5 do better?
- The First Class on the Class 802, is basically standard class, with slightly wider seats in a 2+1, rather than 2+2 arrangement. On the Mk 5 stock the First Class felt Super Premium, at least as good as a Pendolino and not far behind that of the final GWR HST interior. The materials were really good, seats super comfy and I really liked little details like the lights blended into the table.
View attachment 69427 View attachment 69428 View attachment 69429
- The Passenger Information system on the Class 802 was surprisingly basic (No better than a Pendolino or Voyager). The CAF products have set a new standard in the UK. Bright coloured LCD panels, displaying the time, outside temperature, Real time information for both the service you are on and for trains at the destination station.
View attachment 69430
- Lighting is less harsh and less “white” than on the Class 802 and creates a more relaxing ambience. These differences are less significant in Standard Class than they are in first.
View attachment 69431 View attachment 69432
What the Class 802 does better?
- Far superior ride over the same section of track. Smooth with very little carriage roll. The CAF Mk5 really disappointed and felt as rough as the CAF 331 on this section of line. Lots of body roll and it was really hard to stand in the vestibule as we approached the station without holding on. Let’s hope they bed in but judging by reviews I’ve read about the Mk5 Caledonian sleeper coaches this may not improve significantly.
- Better alignment of table seats with windows, the CAF Mk5 may have more table seats but far more of these seats are poorly aligned.
- Leg room, even in first class I struggled to reach the window seat on the CAF Mk5 stock and had to lift the arm rests, no such problem on the Class 802. Very generous leg room in both Standard and First Class.
- Quiet and rapid acceleration (I only experienced the trains under electric power). The air conditioning system wasn’t as loud as that on the Mk5 stock or on the Pendolino’s. It was so quiet in fact I could easily overhear conversations at the opposite end of the carriage.
- I could rest my arm on the window sill (although it is narrower than a Pendolino). The annoying location of the air vent in the window sill of the Mk 5 carriages bothered me more than I expected. I instinctively kept trying to place my elbow onto the vents grill.
Where the trains are equal?
- Standard Class interior - the comfort of the standard class seats and standard of materials/finish in were very much par on both trains.
- Both have access at seat Plugs/USB sockets.
- Carriage noise (based on Class 802 under electric power and DVT coach of Mk5 stock) was very much on par.
Conclusion
If I was travelling to York from Merseyside, I would definitely favour the Class 802 if I was in Standard class, as the ride is vastly superior and I found the ride on the Mk5 (all be it not on the best section of track) to be distracting and an annoyance.
I loved the ambience of First Class on the Mk5, so if I was fortunate enough to travel First Class I would favour the Mk5 as it feels special.
I have yet to experience the Class 802 on diesel power, so the Mk5’s may well have a distinct advantage when it comes to noise levels, when crossing the Pennines. I found the DVT coach of the Mk5 stock (obviously the furthest coach from the Class 68) to be almost as quiet as the Class 802 (the difference being due to a fairly loud air conditioning system).
All in all however both trains offer a great improvement over the Class 185 Pennine Class and are true Intercity class trains.