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Onboard announcements on buses set to become standard?

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danorak

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13 Feb 2016
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On board announcements are coming as part of the accessible information and open data requirements allowed for in the Bus Services Act. The cost of providing AV has reduced substantially in recent years and many operators are choosing to provide it anyway. Transport Focus did some research which showed young people were particularly keen on buses having this. It took me a while to get used to them on London buses but I miss them when out of the capital and it makes it so much easier to know your stop is coming up when travelling somewhere.

There is another disability angle to this though. There are now things like autism-friendly shopping events where shops have a 'quiet hour' with background noise, announcements and bleeps reduced or eliminated altogether, to reduce anxiety and create a calmer environment. I'm not sure that particular circle can be squared.
 

lachlan

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My view is controversial, I admit but it is my view. You all have your opinion and that is mine. Those with impairments do use buses currently and those who do, are generally happy with asking the driver where to alight or they just know where to get off presumably due to using the bus frequently.

I can see the point in announcements on routes which serve a lot of tourist attractions. Express buses it makes sense and also I can see the appeal if a route does generally have a fair few impaired people using it. However, if the route is a standard 30 minute local route with very few impaired people using such service, the announcements are unnecessary. I am not fully against announcements as I know they can be useful for some points. I do however believe that they need to be kept to few routes if possible or if you insist on them being on all buses, only major stops are announced.

If you live in London, you have had announcements for a while and have known nothing else for many years. To myself who lives in a city where the majority of buses don't have announcements and those which do, I avoid, I see it from the opposite side of the story. Don't fix what isn't broken sort of thing. It's just more and more cost which ends up with the fare payer in my opinion and that isn't on. Thousands have fare increases for that 1 visually impaired person who gets on once per year.
"Don't fix what isn't broken" - but for many people our public transport system IS broken. Your justification is very few disabled people use public transport, however 1) I disagree and 2) how many disabled people would use public transport if it were more accesible?

Drivers do a fantastic job. They do not need more distractions from passengers. I've asked the driver to tell me where the stop is a handful of times, and they've forgotten at least once or twice. My eyesight is good enough that I can see where to get off, and I'll use Google Maps. But it's so much more difficult for someone with little sight. I very much doubt the technology is expensive to implement (certainly not as expensive as you claim it is). And if implemented on a national scale, it should be easier and cheaper to implement using a standardised system.

If audio announcements bother you then wear headphones. As for autistic people, the bus is already a noisy environment so I reckon they already would wear ear defenders, or not take the bus.

It's not even your view on the audio announcements themselves, it's your view that accesibility is "taking the mic" and accesibility is not worth it since blind people rarely take the bus, that's so offensive. I'm guessing you're able to drive, so if stop announcements upset you so much, drive. The people that need this technology the most, have no choice but to take the bus.
 

mde

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My view is controversial, I admit but it is my view. You all have your opinion and that is mine. Those with impairments do use buses currently and those who do, are generally happy with asking the driver where to alight or they just know where to get off presumably due to using the bus frequently.
This is the kind of viewpoint one would expect from a column in the Daily Mail.

You've actively said "don't fix what isn't broken"… yet, by definition, the system is broken in some ways; did you think the same when stepped entrances were still the norm and folks using wheelchairs had the audacity to ask that they be given access?

If audio announcements bother you then wear headphones. As for autistic people, the bus is already a noisy environment so I reckon they already would wear ear defenders, or not take the bus.
Many would probably be quite happy with the announcements… they can act as a reassurance. And, as you rightfully say, it's something that is easy to block out with headphones.

The announcements are something that, if done right, can help a majority of the travelling public - it's a small outlay compared to some equipment on a vehicle, and, if it improves access then it's a small price to pay. :)
 

markymark2000

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There is another disability angle to this though. There are now things like autism-friendly shopping events where shops have a 'quiet hour' with background noise, announcements and bleeps reduced or eliminated altogether, to reduce anxiety and create a calmer environment. I'm not sure that particular circle can be squared.
I wanted to touch on this as an additional reason against announcements but I was unsure how to write it. We are more accessible to one some but less accessible to other.

It's a difficult mix to be fair. Physically impaired can get on the bus with low floor and DDA etc so they can use the bus. All that stops them using the bus is not knowing where to get off. Not knowing where to get off can be solved on local routes (I have provided info above about some services which are exempt from this generalisation) by simply asking the driver. The vast majority of passengers on routes will also help you know where to get off (Impaired or not) though this can not be relied on of course.

If people were physically unable to get on the bus because of the gap between bus and pavement, step entrance or lack of wheelchair space then that would be unacceptable. The actual issue we have here is solely to do with not knowing where to get off which drivers and passengers will help with 99% of the time.

If audio announcements bother you then wear headphones. As for autistic people, the bus is already a noisy environment so I reckon they already would wear ear defenders, or not take the bus.
Oh yes, lets all be like Londoners where we never interact because we are too busy listening to whatever through headphones. Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus.

Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money.
 

xc170

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My view is controversial, I admit but it is my view. You all have your opinion and that is mine. Those with impairments do use buses currently and those who do, are generally happy with asking the driver where to alight or they just know where to get off presumably due to using the bus frequently.

I can see the point in announcements on routes which serve a lot of tourist attractions. Express buses it makes sense and also I can see the appeal if a route does generally have a fair few impaired people using it. However, if the route is a standard 30 minute local route with very few impaired people using such service, the announcements are unnecessary. I am not fully against announcements as I know they can be useful for some points. I do however believe that they need to be kept to few routes if possible or if you insist on them being on all buses, only major stops are announced.

If you live in London, you have had announcements for a while and have known nothing else for many years. To myself who lives in a city where the majority of buses don't have announcements and those which do, I avoid, I see it from the opposite side of the story. Don't fix what isn't broken sort of thing. It's just more and more cost which ends up with the fare payer in my opinion and that isn't on. Thousands have fare increases for that 1 visually impaired person who gets on once per year.

Your view is not controversial, it's discrimination.

If anything makes travelling easier for people with disabilities, then surly it cannot be a bad thing.
 

radamfi

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If you live in London, you have had announcements for a while and have known nothing else for many years.

London has only had them for about 10 years, so they were very late to the party. So most bus passengers in London would not have heard them before they started, other than on trips abroad.
 

Robertj21a

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I wanted to touch on this as an additional reason against announcements but I was unsure how to write it. We are more accessible to one some but less accessible to other.

It's a difficult mix to be fair. Physically impaired can get on the bus with low floor and DDA etc so they can use the bus. All that stops them using the bus is not knowing where to get off. Not knowing where to get off can be solved on local routes (I have provided info above about some services which are exempt from this generalisation) by simply asking the driver. The vast majority of passengers on routes will also help you know where to get off (Impaired or not) though this can not be relied on of course.

If people were physically unable to get on the bus because of the gap between bus and pavement, step entrance or lack of wheelchair space then that would be unacceptable. The actual issue we have here is solely to do with not knowing where to get off which drivers and passengers will help with 99% of the time.


Oh yes, lets all be like Londoners where we never interact because we are too busy listening to whatever through headphones. Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus.

Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money.

I think you really do need to consider the needs of other people far more. It comes over as if you have no real understanding of the wide range of physical and mental disabilities or, if you do, that you simply don't care.
 

cnjb8

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Trent Barton have recently introduced Ticketer machines but have also kept their old Init machines, partly for people to use their Mango smartcard but someone also posted on here that the old machines are still needed for the next stop announcements and display screens. That may be a temporary measure though.
They have also been kept for Mango and Robin Hood cards
 

py_megapixel

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Oh yes, lets all be like Londoners where we never interact because we are too busy listening to whatever through headphones. Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus.
.
In case you hadn't noticed, there is a group here of people who haven't said they actively like the announcements, but are prepared to listen to them given that they help others. Possibly you are in fact a member of the few, and not the many, as you seem to assume.
You have the relative luxury of the ability to block them with headphones, or sit in a bit of the bus where they are quieter, or switch to a different mode of transport altogether. For people with visual impairments, it can be a choice between a well-fitted-out, accessible bus and not being able to travel. If you are right that they very rarely use the bus, it's likely as much because they cannot, rather than that they choose not to.

You also argue that these systems push fares up for other passengers. Well, here's a list of upgrades which have happened to many buses which probably had a similar effect to what you describe:
  • Electric or electric-hybrid drivetrains
  • Acceptance of ITSO and contactless cards
  • Leather-style seats
  • More legroom
  • Wheelchair ramps
The list goes on, and I don't see anyone complaining about this type of thing. But ultimately, if I have to pay 10p extra so that visually impaired people can travel in the same conditions, then I will.

Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money
No, it's like installing lifts in your warehouse to allow people with disabilities to get jobs there, as well as to reduce time spent carrying heavy objects up an down stairs, and reduce safety hazards caused by carrying heavy objects, and to allow large groups of workers to get from floor to floor quicker. It solves multiple problems.
 

Ethano92

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Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus
In all honesty, you're entitled to your opinion. But to this day it perplexes me just how much announcements can annoy people.

Simply put, with all the respect, get over it. It always seems to be the people that complain about the ''earphone generation" that then complain about something as mediocre as announcements.

Why are we pretending buses used to be dead silent boxes and announcements are a breach of human rights. I have no disabilities but can actually feel quite uncomfortable travelling on buses without announcements, having to instead track my journey rather than know the name of the stop I'm getting off at, and wait to hear it.

London is doing something right, I do genuinely wonder how a 2 second announcement every minute or so can annoy anyone so much.
 

lachlan

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783
I wanted to touch on this as an additional reason against announcements but I was unsure how to write it. We are more accessible to one some but less accessible to other.

It's a difficult mix to be fair. Physically impaired can get on the bus with low floor and DDA etc so they can use the bus. All that stops them using the bus is not knowing where to get off. Not knowing where to get off can be solved on local routes (I have provided info above about some services which are exempt from this generalisation) by simply asking the driver. The vast majority of passengers on routes will also help you know where to get off (Impaired or not) though this can not be relied on of course.

If people were physically unable to get on the bus because of the gap between bus and pavement, step entrance or lack of wheelchair space then that would be unacceptable. The actual issue we have here is solely to do with not knowing where to get off which drivers and passengers will help with 99% of the time.


Oh yes, lets all be like Londoners where we never interact because we are too busy listening to whatever through headphones. Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus.

Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money.
I hate to break it to you, but strangers don't talk to each other on the buses in Aberdeen, either.

We have station announcements on trains and the tube, why not for buses?
 

AM9

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I wanted to touch on this as an additional reason against announcements but I was unsure how to write it. We are more accessible to one some but less accessible to other.

It's a difficult mix to be fair. Physically impaired can get on the bus with low floor and DDA etc so they can use the bus. All that stops them using the bus is not knowing where to get off. Not knowing where to get off can be solved on local routes (I have provided info above about some services which are exempt from this generalisation) by simply asking the driver. The vast majority of passengers on routes will also help you know where to get off (Impaired or not) though this can not be relied on of course.

If people were physically unable to get on the bus because of the gap between bus and pavement, step entrance or lack of wheelchair space then that would be unacceptable. The actual issue we have here is solely to do with not knowing where to get off which drivers and passengers will help with 99% of the time.


Oh yes, lets all be like Londoners where we never interact because we are too busy listening to whatever through headphones. Those who don't like announcements shouldn't have to suffer because of those very few who very rarely use the bus.

Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money.
I'm beginning to wonder whether you have a general indifference to anybody who has a need for accessibility aid on transport or anything else for that matter, after all, these people expect tactile pavement areas at crossings, noisy cross now bleeps, grab handles and more clearance in toilets and in buildings. It's just so inconvenient for us poor normally sighted/hearing and mobile tax/fare paying citizens. When I was young, there were certain kinds of citizens who expected blind people to cover their eyes with dark glasses lest they offended the normally sighted with their stare or lack of eye control. There were others who expected prosthetics to be disguised to look like real limbs so that they didn't offend the eye, even if they didn't function as well. I could go on but I expect that you might see the significance of those expectations. Luckily most people's behaviour has improved somewhat since those days, unfortunately it has taken several changes to UK law to convince some.
You really need to look at the posted reactions to your comment here. I am surprised that they are so polite and it is to the credit of this forum that they are so restrained.
 

Deerfold

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My view is controversial, I admit but it is my view. You all have your opinion and that is mine. Those with impairments do use buses currently and those who do, are generally happy with asking the driver where to alight or they just know where to get off presumably due to using the bus frequently.

How do you know what proportion currently use buses? What proportion are happy with relying on a busy driver to notify them when they've got to their stop?

Everyone is entitled to their views. However we're entitled to respond when your view comes across as arrogant and uncaring. It may be that they're just from a position of ignorance.
 

carlberry

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Audio announcements on buses to encourage partially sighted people to use them would be like installing lifts at in a Tesco Warehouse to encourage them to get jobs there. It is just a waste of money.
I hate to break it to you, however workplaces have had to be accessible for a number of years. I'm not an expert on the subject however I'm not aware that wanting lifts installed was partially high on the agenda for partially sighted people, high visibility/contrast signs and clearly delimited safe areas would appear to be more useful.
 

175mph

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I like the new buses Enviro MMC buses Stagecoach have invested in for Hull's 'Simplibus' network, largely because of the fact that they include audio announcements. I'm currently on one of them right now, and the audio announcement feature is being used despite the fact that the bus is doing an out of the city run on the 250 'Humber Flyer' to Humberside Airport.

I would have thought that they would only go to the trouble of enabling this feature only on the routes that run solely within the city?
 

Deerfold

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I like the new buses Enviro MMC buses Stagecoach have invested in for Hull's 'Simplibus' network, largely because of the fact that they include audio announcements. I'm currently on one of them right now, and the audio announcement feature is being used despite the fact that the bus is doing an out of the city run on the 250 'Humber Flyer' to Humberside Airport.

I would have thought that they would only go to the trouble of enabling this feature only on the routes that run solely within the city?

If all the data is in there, why not use it?
 

175mph

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If all the data is in there, why not use it?
Well, after I typed my earlier message, it would seem that the data wasn't all there for the route as when the route reached a random stop in Hessle, the audio announcement skipped out the rest of the stops before crossing the Humber Bridge, and the stops in Barton Upon Humber and said that the next stop is Humberside Airport, despite the route definitely serving Barton Upon Humber.
 

GusB

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I have to say when I visited Edinburgh in June this year, a journey on one of Lothian's new XLBs was the first time I'd ever encountered audio announcements on a bus. I was mildly irritated to begin with, but I can totally understand why they're there. The thing is, though - it actually benefited me to have those announcements - while I was familiar with part of the route, I was going beyond the area that I knew, and I didn't have to worry about having to ask the driver to give me a shout when we approached my stop.

While the announcements are primarily there to assist people with disabilities, they're also beneficial to tourists, or even locals who are visiting a part of the city they're unfamiliar with.
 

185

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Does anyone else find the announcements annoying? I have Arriva Sapphire near me and the announcements got so bad that I ended up just trying to avoid the buses where possible and move to routes without announcements.

Precisely the view of many commuter passengers, who don't want the bus loudly talking to them repeating the same 50 bus stop names every morning and evening, often for 60-70% of time the bus is underway - often in two languages. When this phenomenon was new, one company found a number of speakers being jammed with chewing gum, paper and even glue. One driver was also investigated for (allegedly) removing a memory stick/card and formatting it to remove the audio, but it was never proven.

Perhaps for occasional travellers, enthusiasts, visually impaired persons or tourists it is useful, but the core financial income model of most bus operators is from commuters paying full rate - they ultimately are the ones the bus companies need most for financial survival.
 
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Speedbird96

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My view is controversial, I admit but it is my view. You all have your opinion and that is mine. Those with impairments do use buses currently and those who do, are generally happy with asking the driver where to alight or they just know where to get off presumably due to using the bus frequently.

You are entitled to your view of course, but your further comments are completely unacceptable and frankly disgusting. If you don't like next-stop announcements, get some headphones and drown them out... It's not hard!

Bus drivers are also human and are very likely to forget a request to specifically let passengers know when to get off, had it happen to me a number of times when I have travelled to other cities.

London has only been using iBus for the best part of 10 years and the system is very good, and suffers few teething problems. The majority of Nottingham's next-stop displays are linked with the iNiT ticket machines which also controls the radio. If the radio doesn't work, the bus has to be taken out of service. London, Nottingham, Derby and Birmingham have proven that next-stop announcements do work as technology has become more reliable.
 

radamfi

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Drivers of certain street running routes in Greater Manchester have been announcing the next stop since 1992.
 

GoneSouth

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Perryman's tried it on 12 Versas bought in 2013 for their Scottish Borders contracts. It didn't last long as not many drivers knew how to set it correctly. The screens are still fitted to the Versas, but not used.
If that is true, it’s an unbelievably dumb reason for not using a fantastic feature. Why go to the expense and effort of installing great technology and not bother training the drivers how to use it
 

Deerfold

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Precisely the view of many commuter passengers, who don't want the bus loudly talking to them repeating the same 50 bus stop names every morning and evening, often for 60-70% of time the bus is underway - often in two languages. When this phenomenon was new, one company found a number of speakers being jammed with chewing gum, paper and even glue. One driver was also investigated for (allegedly) removing a memory stick/card and formatting it to remove the audio, but it was never proven.

Perhaps for occasional travellers, enthusiasts, visually impaired persons or tourists it is useful, but the core financial income model of most bus operators is from commuters paying full rate - they ultimately are the ones the bus companies need most for financial survival.

It sounds like you are pointing out problems to avoid, not reasons not to do it.

They shouldn't be too loud. Announcements should be concise. Often in two languages? Outside of Wales, I've never seen any do that in the UK.

I find the Transdev ones useful, but the gimmicky local accent ones on the 60 annoying - not because of the accent, but because they're rambling so go on much longer than they need to.
 

mde

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They shouldn't be too loud. Announcements should be concise.
Using a professional voice aristocrat's can help with this - you need announcements which are clear and easy to understand, ideally, using a relatively neutral accent (to help interpretation).

If we think of some of the DVA/PIS announcements on the railway there's examples of best practice* to be found which could probably be replicated easily… these announcements need not be a massive 'annoyance factor' if they are done right.

* and also some really bad practice!
 

jon0844

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TfL has things about right IMO. Simple screens and simple announcements. A range of apps, or just Google Maps, will show you buses, routes and stop names so it's very simple for anyone. Even if you can't really understand English, you can use a phone in your own language and know to look for stop xxxxxx on the display.

Colour screens that can also show news, weather and adverts are probably great for smaller operators, but the most important thing is providing information for everyone.
 

Eyersey468

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I believe East Yorkshire'new E400MMCs have next stop audio visual announcements fitted.
 

Ethano92

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Precisely the view of many commuter passengers, who don't want the bus loudly talking to them repeating the same 50 bus stop names every morning and evening

In all honesty, at this point I don't know of anyone in London that complains about announcements. TFL actually got a nice voice actress to record the announcements so they're hardly annoying to listen to. They're also not too loud on all different bus makes I've used meaning if you have earphones in (which someone might as well have if announcements can annoy them that much) then you can't hear announcements over your music and if you don't have earphones, buses have never really been silent environments to start with.

There will be backlash at first, it's a change after all but now it genuinely feels uncomfortable not having destination and stops read out. When I'm on a bus out of London, even if I know my stop isn't for 20 odd minutes I'll still feel inclined to track my journey almost the whole way 'just incase'. Every opinion valid obviously but I fail to see how short phrases that aren't even anywhere near to full sentences can genuinely be such a burden.
 
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