TPE Nova 1 Class 802/2 Progress

BillBlue80 · 15 Oct 2019

I was surprised to see that both units out today didn’t have any vinyls applied. I expected at least one would, if TPE were ready to deploy units in passenger service; when you add in the fact 802207 has a pantograph issue (yet is still in operations), are there only currently two or three serviceable Class 802’s?

How many 802’s have been delivered in total so far and how many have received their vinyls?

Having seen so many Class 397 in their vinyls, yet none in service, I’m actually surprised TPE have been aggressive enough to deploy a handful of “White tail/unliveried units” into action. I’m very glad they have been as it was a pleasure to ride on one today. It clearly says a lot for their trust in the dependability and redundancy capabilities of the Class 802.

However I am surprised the Class 397 isn’t yet deemed ready for a similar low profile introduction. I thought it had been signed off for operational service and I would have thought that as it was due to enter service prior to the 802’s there would be more drivers and conductors signed to operate them?

After loving my experience of the Class 802 today, I’ve gambled on advance booking onto one of the currently operated diagrams on Friday in hope I’m lucky enough to get one.

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The Northern Star · 15 Oct 2019

The plan atm is to have x2 802s out each day until more crew are trained....

If people wonder why they cancel a whole diagram for a day, its because the guard don't sign the 802 and the driver can get more knowledge.

Geeves · 15 Oct 2019

Im not fully up to speed with all of TPEs depot cover but I would imagine the 397 introduction is likely to be traincrew training related rather than issues with the units. TPE Preston depot drivers are passing out as we speak and I believe that the airport guards work those Scotland services too, said guards have recently had to learn class 68 AND class 802s.

To bring things back on track it while observing at Vic today the swap from OHLE to diesel seems to have become a very streamlined affair compared to previous weeks, fair play to the Hitachi engineers. Those 802s look the business!

BillBlue80 · 15 Oct 2019

Geeves said:
Im not fully up to speed with all of TPEs depot cover but I would imagine the 397 introduction is likely to be traincrew training related rather than issues with the units. TPE Preston depot drivers are passing out as we speak and I believe that the airport guards work those Scotland services too, said guards have recently had to learn class 68 AND class 802s.

To bring things back on track it while observing at Vic today the swap from OHLE to diesel seems to have become a very streamlined affair compared to previous weeks, fair play to the Hitachi engineers. Those 802s look the business!

Thank you for that, it makes a lot of sense. I’m just impatient for another new train after my great experiences of the 802 and Mk5 today. After decades of “cast offs” I think I can be patient enough to complete the set

Big respect to everyone introducing the new fleet, as on my train today there were clearly people working long shifts with long breaks in order to get the two diagrams operating

EE Andy b1 · 15 Oct 2019

BillBlue80 said:
I was surprised to see that both units out today didn’t have any vinyls applied. I expected at least one would, if TPE were ready to deploy units in passenger service; when you add in the fact 802207 has a pantograph issue (yet is still in operations), are there only currently two or three serviceable Class 802’s?

How many 802’s have been delivered in total so far and how many have received their vinyls?

Having seen so many Class 397 in their vinyls, yet none in service, I’m actually surprised TPE have been aggressive enough to deploy a handful of “White tail/unliveried units” into action. I’m very glad they have been as it was a pleasure to ride on one today. It clearly says a lot for their trust in the dependability and redundancy capabilities of the Class 802.

However I am surprised the Class 397 isn’t yet deemed ready for a similar low profile introduction. I thought it had been signed off for operational service and I would have thought that as it was due to enter service prior to the 802’s there would be more drivers and conductors signed to operate them?

After loving my experience of the Class 802 today, I’ve gambled on advance booking onto one of the currently operated diagrams on Friday in hope I’m lucky enough to get one.

Vinyls are not the most important thing, training is and getting staff familiarisation and extra mileage on these units. A pantograph issue is no problem, they have another and then diesel power. That'll be fixed when next back with Hitachi.
Hitachi have now had 3 years or so experience with Class 80x so should have confidence in these sets now.
Class 397s and all CAF stock have come from the factory already fully vinalyed up. There a small fleet that has never been operated here before, so takes a bit longer to sort out through testing and mileage but they can't be far off being introduced just like the other 2 Nova types and WMT want there Class 350/4s by December.

Bletchleyite · 15 Oct 2019

Geeves said:
To bring things back on track it while observing at Vic today the swap from OHLE to diesel seems to have become a very streamlined affair compared to previous weeks, fair play to the Hitachi engineers. Those 802s look the business!

They certainly give the feeling of "proper trains" being back on TPE, don't they? OK, no loco on the end unlike Mk5s, but they just look grown-up and "big railway", not silly little DMUs which have plagued the North for over 30 years.

And yes, unlike Class 195 and Mk5a coaches, someone appears to at least have looked at the relationship between windows and seats.

BillBlue80 · 15 Oct 2019

That’s a really fair point I hadn’t realised the 397’s are delivered with their vinyls, whilst the 802’s are delivered without. You are so right to point out that the 802’s are a mature platform and the 397’s a small sub-fleet. It’s easy to get carried away when you see shiny trains in a nice new livery and assume they should be ready for service. Clearly there are numerous things that need signing off for a brand new Class on UK rail from a manufacturer with limited experience of the British market.

EE Andy b1 · 15 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
They certainly give the feeling of "proper trains" being back on TPE, don't they? OK, no loco on the end unlike Mk5s, but they just look grown-up and "big railway", not silly little DMUs which have plagued the North for over 30 years.

A long time coming.
They will be a good train for the next 30 years. I just wonder why TPE didn't go for the EMU variant of the Class rather than the Class 397. Don't get me wrong as has been said before the 397 looks the best from the exterior anyway. Once again would have made sense to have a more common fleet. We know Nova 3 was down to a quick delivery and service introduction, was it the same for the 397?

We on CLC will be feeling a little let down with only having new Class 195s on the Airports and junk still on the stoppers.

Sorry back to TPE 802s! 8-)

w1bbl3 · 15 Oct 2019

CAF promised an earlier delivery date for the 397's 's than Hitachi would commit to early '19 vs autumn '19. The more interesting question is why considering the promised delivery dates did TPE order any 802's and with the wisdom on hindsight on how the mk5a where delayed would a single large order of 80x's delivering from autumn '19 onward have been better.

plugwash · 16 Oct 2019

I presume they ordered the 802s because they wanted/needed 125MPH "intercity" bi-modes for the services that would be extended to Edinburgh and there weren't a whole lot of options in that category.

Jozhua · 16 Oct 2019

Wierd seeing 802's in Victoria, used to rubbish little trains going in and out. Those and the MK5A's are probably the longest regular trains Victoria has seen in a while!

Extra 3m car lengths are very noticeable from outside, must give a decent boost to capacity as well!

Jozhua · 16 Oct 2019

Wierd seeing 802's in Victoria, used to rubbish little trains going in and out. Those and the MK5A's are probably the longest regular trains Victoria has seen in a while!

Extra 3m car lengths are very noticeable from outside, must give a decent boost to capacity as well!

Spartacus · 16 Oct 2019

Regarding different fleets, it may or may not have influenced the decision making process, but having 3 fleets does provide a certain level of resilience in case one was grounded for some reason, which isn’t unknown.

Seehof · 16 Oct 2019

Nice thought but surely, for example, each depot is only trained on their planned type of stock they will work. For example, Scarborough, will only be trained on the Nova 3s. Also I believe there are two TPE links at York, one for each type of stock that TPE operates through there.

Failed Unit · 16 Oct 2019

Hope this isn’t drifting of topic but the last 2 posts do explain a lot. Never understood why the whole fleet wasn’t 802s (or a the same train) saves a lot on training and gives more flexibility to swap diagrams to minimise delays.

We could have a lot more electrification in 30 years. I am sure Manchester- York will be done. But as it is I guess 802s on Scarborough - Manchester is not desirable but workable.

gimmea50anyday · 16 Oct 2019

Scarborough are learning 802 and Mk5. They also sign Middlesbrough and Newcastle. Newcastle on the other hand although sign Middlesbrough and Scarborough won't be signing Mk5 immediately but are adding edinburgh, although this is coming at the cost of Manchester and Liverpool up to Leeds and with Scarborough do a lot of the stoppers. Liverpool retain Newcastle and will eventually sign 802 and Mk5 but not Edinburgh. Crews have been concentrated in order to speed up traction training but this is coming at the cost of route retention which many are unhappy at losing and don't think has be thought out fairly as the work length and flexibility is being lost to frequent short hops and multiple crews on services.

Frankfurt · 16 Oct 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
Scarborough are learning 802 and Mk5. They also sign Middlesbrough and Newcastle. Newcastle on the other hand although sign Middlesbrough and Scarborough won't be signing Mk5 immediately but are adding edinburgh, although this is coming at the cost of Manchester and Liverpool up to Leeds and with Scarborough do a lot of the stoppers. Liverpool retain Newcastle and will eventually sign 802 and Mk5 but not Edinburgh. Crews have been concentrated in order to speed up traction training but this is coming at the cost of route retention which many are unhappy at losing and don't think has be thought out fairly as the work length and flexibility is being lost to frequent short hops and multiple crews on services.

Newcastle depot currently sign Middlesbrough but not Scarborough plus learning Edinburgh.
Liverpool drivers go far north as York plus Scarborough (Not Newcastle).
Scarborough drivers do sign Middlesbrough plus learning Redcar. (Don't sign upto Newcastle, do sign as far as Darlington I believe).

Route cards are soon to chop and change, mainly chopped but that's all to be finalized as of yet.

3973EXL · 16 Oct 2019

5X98 Eastleigh - Acton
5Q98 Acton - Doncaster
802214
TPE livery

palmersears · 16 Oct 2019

802218 much improved today. PIS and auto announcements working well (even if it thinks we're going to Waverley after Newcastle), and the door release is a lot quicker upon arrival than it was on Monday.

The thing that really struck me today is just how much more capacity there is vice a 185. Nobody standing in doorways, and plenty of free seats throughout the train. Newtown Le Willows folk are getting used to needing to be in the front three coaches already as well.

LittleAH · 16 Oct 2019

palmersears said:
802218 much improved today. PIS and auto announcements working well (even if it thinks we're going to Waverley after Newcastle), and the door release is a lot quicker upon arrival than it was on Monday.

The thing that really struck me today is just how much more capacity there is vice a 185. Nobody standing in doorways, and plenty of free seats throughout the train. Newtown Le Willows folk are getting used to needing to be in the front three coaches already as well.

It's what doubling the capacity does! I got a peak time service from Man Vic to Leeds yesterday and got a table to myself. Quite amusing watching about 100 fellow passengers try and cram on a late running 185 5 mins before the 802 came in, some people will never learn!

EE Andy b1 · 17 Oct 2019

Jozhua said:
What do the existing diagrams look like for 802's?

Thanks for the help

TPE Class 802 diagrams are shown here...

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transpennine-express-nova-1-class-802-diagrams.192826/

palmersears · 17 Oct 2019

LittleAH said:
It's what doubling the capacity does! I got a peak time service from Man Vic to Leeds yesterday and got a table to myself. Quite amusing watching about 100 fellow passengers try and cram on a late running 185 5 mins before the 802 came in, some people will never learn!

Indeed, it's just been such a long time coming that it's a bit of a shock to the system!

One thing to add regarding the PIS, it announced the imminent arrival at Victoria far too early. We had greens all the way in admittedly, which was unusual, but it still made the announcement before we had even made it onto Ordsall Lane Junction.

3973EXL · 17 Oct 2019

5Q40 Doncaster - Acton
5X41 Acton - Eastleigh
802215 TPE grey
800102

Kieran1990 · 18 Oct 2019

Rather impressed so far on the 21:34 off Leeds- accelerated very quickly out of Leeds and they are really a step up from Class 185s- love them I do, their capacity limits always hindered them

modernrail · 19 Oct 2019

I need to do a Liverpool to Durham and back in a day next week for a meeting. Any risk of me being able to aim for at least a leg on one of these units?

Darandio · 19 Oct 2019

modernrail said:
I need to do a Liverpool to Durham and back in a day next week for a meeting. Any risk of me being able to aim for at least a leg on one of these units?

You could keep an eye on the diagrams thread. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transpennine-express-nova-1-class-802-diagrams.192826/

gimmea50anyday · 19 Oct 2019

Apparently no 802s in service next week, according to depot trainer.

BillBlue80 · 19 Oct 2019

Hugely impressed by my experiences of the 802’s this week. Took my second journey on one from Newton-le-Willows to Leeds. The switchover at Manchester Victoria was so seamless. Ride quality really is excellent and it coped beautifully in my experience with all the track from Liverpool to Leeds. Engine noise was no issue either, of course you could tell you were on diesel power but it was far less noticeable than the 185 and in my view was quieter than a Voyager.

It really is an absolutely game changing train. I genuinely think my only criticism is that the seats are too firm and first class lacks the special feel that the new TPE CAF Mk5’s have. These trains are leagues ahead of any modern Intercity rolling stock I’ve seen in the UK in my lifetime, with the exception of the Pendolino that I have a massive technological soft spot for. They feel like a modern day Mk3 in terms of ride, spaciousness, window size and seating alignment with the flexibility to seamlessly switch between electric and diesel power and have immense acceleration.

Hopefully these videos will give you some impression of the differences between Electrical and Diesel power

Diesel Power

Electric Power

Diesel Power

Electric Power

Diesel Power

life210 · 20 Oct 2019

Has a liveried set been in passenger service yet?

EE Andy b1 · 20 Oct 2019

life210 said:
Has a liveried set been in passenger service yet?

802201 on the 28 September was TPE livery.

TPE Nova 1 Class 802/2 Progress

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