West Lothian buses

Jordan Adam · 16 Oct 2019

lastbus said:
From Shotts to Livingston with 1 extra bus at what frequency?

It's not Shotts to Livingston though, It's Shotts to Addiewell. I've not done any mock up timetables so couldn't give you an exact number. (That "1 extra bus needed" was based on a hourly extension), but that aside it's not a drastic increase and could reasonably be done.

RailUK Forums

Stopper · 16 Oct 2019

The X38 sounds like a good service as it’s limited stop and still serves the likes of Winchburgh and Kirkliston. Good to see EX2 being extended further into Edinburgh also. These two new services hopefully spell the end for First in and around Linlithgow. They have provided a woeful service for years saved only by the fact that they were the only ones there.

Jordan Adam · 16 Oct 2019

Stopper said:
The X38 sounds like a good service as it’s limited stop and still serves the likes of Winchburgh and Kirkliston. Good to see EX2 being extended further into Edinburgh also. These two new services hopefully spell the end for First in and around Linlithgow. They have provided a woeful service for years saved only by the fact that they were the only ones there.

They won't spell the end for First in Linlithgow. However the X38 will certainly dent the 38 and i wouldn't be shocked if it gets reduced to half hourly again, which arguably will be worse for residents than what there is at present. The worry long term is that first pull the 38 east to Linlithgow. If that were to happen it could cause some serious issues, and it's not just a case of Lothian extending the X38 (or EX2) to cover as Falkirk is outside the Lothain council region.

Stopper · 16 Oct 2019

Jordan Adam said:
They won't spell the end for First in Linlithgow. However the X38 will certainly dent the 38 and i wouldn't be shocked if it gets reduced to half hourly again, which arguably will be worse for residents than what there is at present. The worry long term is that first pull the 38 east to Linlithgow. If that were to happen it could cause some serious issues, and it's not just a case of Lothian extending the X38 (or EX2) to cover as Falkirk is outside the Lothain council region.

It will be good for Linlithgow residents who have had to suffer through years of the dreadful 38 and ScotFail’s terrible new timetable. We have now finally got LCB to provide a decent service.

As for Falkirk, not convinced many use the bus from there right into Edinburgh. Not many people from Linlithgow even do and the bus is usually dead before anyway.

smtglasgow · 16 Oct 2019

Jordan Adam said:
If that were to happen it could cause some serious issues, and it's not just a case of Lothian extending the X38 (or EX2) to cover as Falkirk is outside the Lothain council region.

This point gets made a lot – ie. Lothian are restricted to operating within the old Lothian Region. Is it actually true, or just enthusiast talk? Have the shareholders forbidden it? The only restriction would be a self-imposed one - there's no other reason why Lothian shouldn't operate anywhere they want. Seems odd to have a commercial venture operating with one hand tied behind its back, but maybe there is some restriction dating back to the early days of running as an arms-length company?

tbtc · 16 Oct 2019

smtglasgow said:
This point gets made a lot – ie. Lothian are restricted to operating within the old Lothian Region. Is it actually true, or just enthusiast talk? Have the shareholders forbidden it? The only restriction would be a self-imposed one - there's no other reason why Lothian shouldn't operate anywhere they want. Seems odd to have a commercial venture operating with one hand tied behind its back, but maybe there is some restriction dating back to the early days of running as an arms-length company?

As far as I'm aware, it's just another bit of guesswork from the same kind of people who brought you "Lothian expected First to abandon West Lothian after only a few weeks" and other tales...

From memory, Lothian/ LRT have worked to North Queensferry (Deep Sea World) in the past, they used to have Peebles on some destination blinds - the idea that they can't run beyond the borders of the Lothians seems like canteen gossip - other local authority owned bus companies run beyond their "natural" boundaries (or did so in days when they were still municipally controlled). For example, Nottingham's locally owned buses run to Loughborough, Reading's ones run to other towns in the Thames Valley, you get red TfL buses over the borders of the capital.

TheEastCoaster · 16 Oct 2019

tbtc said:
As far as I'm aware, it's just another bit of guesswork from the same kind of people who brought you "Lothian expected First to abandon West Lothian after only a few weeks" and other tales...

From memory, Lothian/ LRT have worked to North Queensferry (Deep Sea World) in the past, they used to have Peebles on some destination blinds - the idea that they can't run beyond the borders of the Lothians seems like canteen gossip - other local authority owned bus companies run beyond their "natural" boundaries (or did so in days when they were still municipally controlled). For example, Nottingham's locally owned buses run to Loughborough, Reading's ones run to other towns in the Thames Valley, you get red TfL buses over the borders of the capital.

And even Border Buses which runs out to Berwick Upon Tweed, a town in England!

SpeedbirdA350 · 16 Oct 2019

Something tells me that Lothian board, will not say no to extra revenue no matter where it is. There is nothing stopping Lothian legally from operating in Falkirk, Fife or even Glasgow if it really wanted too, I would assume it would need the nod of approval from that council but I don't see that ever being a problem. The only issue I would have about extending the X38 to Stirling/Falkirk, is how much of that route would be dead mileage and how much carrying fresh air? Now, if they wanted to trial the EX2 or EX3 and run to Stirling, given how they cut EX1 after less than 4 months of operations, I would assume that they'd do the exact same if it was going to carry fresh air.

oldman · 16 Oct 2019

TheEastCoaster said:
And even Border Buses which runs out to Berwick Upon Tweed, a town in England!

It's registered address is in Berwick, so it really runs out to Scotland :smile:

. It is of course owned by a Scottish company.

lastbus · 16 Oct 2019

Jordan Adam said:
It's not Shotts to Livingston though, It's Shotts to Addiewell. I've not done any mock up timetables so couldn't give you an exact number. (That "1 extra bus needed" was based on a hourly extension), but that aside it's not a drastic increase and could reasonably be done.

So your suggesting an extension to the addiewell service rather than an extension to the 266?

etetetetet · 16 Oct 2019

I saw the announcement of the X38 and it looks like I can finally travel better. The trains from linlithgow sucks and the EX2 and X38 look to be really good. Actual service!

Now, hurry up and invade Bo'ness and give us a bus service too... I joke, but I can dream.

overthewater · 16 Oct 2019

tbtc said:
As far as I'm aware, it's just another bit of guesswork from the same kind of people who brought you "Lothian expected First to abandon West Lothian after only a few weeks" and other tales...

From memory, Lothian/ LRT have worked to North Queensferry (Deep Sea World) in the past, they used to have Peebles on some destination blinds - the idea that they can't run beyond the borders of the Lothians seems like canteen gossip - other local authority owned bus companies run beyond their "natural" boundaries (or did so in days when they were still municipally controlled). For example, Nottingham's locally owned buses run to Loughborough, Reading's ones run to other towns in the Thames Valley, you get red TfL buses over the borders of the capital.

There also operated to Dunfermline once many moons ago.

lastbus said:
So your suggesting an extension to the addiewell service rather than an extension to the 266?

To be fair you could get Livingston to extend it's 22 from Eastfield to Shotts with one bus.

SpeedbirdA350 said:
Something tells me that Lothian board, will not say no to extra revenue no matter where it is. There is nothing stopping Lothian legally from operating in Falkirk, Fife or even Glasgow if it really wanted too, I would assume it would need the nod of approval from that council but I don't see that ever being a problem. The only issue I would have about extending the X38 to Stirling/Falkirk, is how much of that route would be dead mileage and how much carrying fresh air? Now, if they wanted to trial the EX2 or EX3 and run to Stirling, given how they cut EX1 after less than 4 months of operations, I would assume that they'd do the exact same if it was going to carry fresh air.

There would have to price match Weekly tickets etc, passengers on other side of the water are more price concerned, Could lothian afford to get another 20 extra Green arrows ?

lastbus · 16 Oct 2019

overthewater said:
To be fair you could Livingston COULD extend its 22 from Eastfield to Shotts with one bus.

That would probably be the best solution.

SpeedbirdA350 · 16 Oct 2019

overthewater said:
There would have to price match Weekly tickets etc, passengers on other side of the water are more price concerned, Could lothian afford to get another 20 extra Green arrows ?

Yes Lothian could without issue (afford to buy more stock), however it would be less than 20 because they have 4 spare now given the axing of EX1 so they could be added to EX2. I do agree that they would need to price match (ticket options are just software and code in the system) but if it were a true express like EX2 is then I think people would pay a little extra for that, ie 10, 20p or so. And you also have the travel pass folk who can't get on the train with their pass. But they also work in partnership with Citylink. My point was however that if they were thinking about extending the X38 all the way, I'd rather they did it with a genuine express service like the EX2 or a new EX3 service.

However, Bo'ness does need to be looked at and I am suprised nothing was said about it in this round of changes.

livi man · 16 Oct 2019

Someone said a few pages back £1.70 to Tesco any Where in west Lothian here's a few places you can't. Loganlea west Calder polbeth stoneyburn fauldhouse longridge Blackburn and soon whitburn

TheEastCoaster · 16 Oct 2019

livi man said:
Someone said a few pages back £1.70 to Tesco any Where in west Lothian here's a few places you can't. Loganlea west Calder polbeth stoneyburn fauldhouse longridge Blackburn and soon whitburn

Yeah I responded to that statement saying Blackridge as an example

overthewater · 16 Oct 2019

SpeedbirdA350 said:
Yes Lothian could without issue (afford to buy more stock), however it would be less than 20 because they have 4 spare now given the axing of EX1 so they could be added to EX2. I do agree that they would need to price match (ticket options are just software and code in the system) but if it were a true express like EX2 is then I think people would pay a little extra for that, ie 10, 20p or so. And you also have the travel pass folk who can't get on the train with their pass. But they also work in partnership with Citylink. My point was however that if they were thinking about extending the X38 all the way, I'd rather they did it with a genuine express service like the EX2 or a new EX3 service.

However, Bo'ness does need to be looked at and I am suprised nothing was said about it in this round of changes.

That would mean there would have to Extend the Ex2 to Falkirk and NOT X38, In the case of fife half the Express are non stop from Ferrytoll to City centre,Lothian would have no choice but to lower it's fares

With Bo'ness, I'm not sure what needs to be looked at? It's a council route from Linlithgow to Bo'Ness, While 909 and a Community bus operates to Edinburgh.

livi man said:
Someone said a few pages back £1.70 to Tesco any Where in west Lothian here's a few places you can't. Loganlea west Calder polbeth stoneyburn fauldhouse longridge Blackburn and soon whitburn

I get your point.

etetetetet · 16 Oct 2019

SpeedbirdA350 said:
Yes Lothian could without issue (afford to buy more stock), however it would be less than 20 because they have 4 spare now given the axing of EX1 so they could be added to EX2. I do agree that they would need to price match (ticket options are just software and code in the system) but if it were a true express like EX2 is then I think people would pay a little extra for that, ie 10, 20p or so. And you also have the travel pass folk who can't get on the train with their pass. But they also work in partnership with Citylink. My point was however that if they were thinking about extending the X38 all the way, I'd rather they did it with a genuine express service like the EX2 or a new EX3 service.

However, Bo'ness does need to be looked at and I am suprised nothing was said about it in this round of changes.

As a resident of Bo'ness I can confirm there is definitely demand for a bus to Edinburgh- the C19 is a good example of that. That particular bus has a lot of problems though such as being rather cramped and such, so it never seems to get used.

The biggest advantage would be the fact that it's actually really difficult to get from Bo'ness to Edinburgh, mainly for one reason; Buses to elsewhere are terrible. Obviously with the new X38 and EX2 Linlithgow is well served but getting to Linlithgow involves using the awkwardly timed 45/46 which can take upwards of 40 minutes depending on which one you use, and buses to Falkirk take even longer (and have a habit of not even showing up these days).
My point is the market for it definitely exists, and Lothian has probably already realized that. Maybe they're just thinking of the best way to tackle it.

overthewater · 16 Oct 2019

etetetetet said:
As a resident of Bo'ness I can confirm there is definitely demand for a bus to Edinburgh- the C19 is a good example of that. That particular bus has a lot of problems though such as being rather cramped and such, so it never seems to get used.

The biggest advantage would be the fact that it's actually really difficult to get from Bo'ness to Edinburgh, mainly for one reason; Buses to elsewhere are terrible. Obviously with the new X38 and EX2 Linlithgow is well served but getting to Linlithgow involves using the awkwardly timed 45/46 which can take upwards of 40 minutes depending on which one you use, and buses to Falkirk take even longer (and have a habit of not even showing up these days).
My point is the market for it definitely exists, and Lothian has probably already realized that. Maybe they're just thinking of the best way to tackle it.

What about 909?

Observer · 16 Oct 2019

I see no mention of the F49...except it's not like anyone notices it now because it's now being run by a 16-seater minibus.

Somehow the Council has no problem with that, any other operator would have had the book thrown at them for no low floor access!

Weemidi135 · 16 Oct 2019

livi man said:
Someone said a few pages back £1.70 to Tesco any Where in west Lothian here's a few places you can't. Loganlea west Calder polbeth stoneyburn fauldhouse longridge Blackburn and soon whitburn

What do you mean soon Whitburn ??

etetetetet · 16 Oct 2019

overthewater said:
What about 909?

The main reply I get is "What the hell is the 909?"

I've never actually taken the 909 although from what I've heard it seems to be a fairly normal coach service, although it apprently is really, really uncomfortable. For some reason, only a couple people I know have ever taken it and I swear I have never even seen it in Bo'ness...

TheEastCoaster · 17 Oct 2019

Weemidi135 said:
What do you mean soon Whitburn ??

Just an accusation I think, there’s no way they are hiking up the fare zone in Whitburn

Jordan Adam · 17 Oct 2019

lastbus said:
So your suggesting an extension to the addiewell service rather than an extension to the 266?

Yes, precisely that. It would enhance the service to Fauldhouse, while also creating new links to Lanarkshire. Specifically Motherwell & Hamilton Town Centres.

livi man · 17 Oct 2019

Lanarkshire is not west Lothian council problem so if nobody funds it not worth going there

livi man · 17 Oct 2019

X18 stopping going there in a few weeks to whitburn

Weemidi135 · 17 Oct 2019

livi man said:
X18 stopping going there in a few weeks to whitburn

no it’s not did you even look at the change

ANWP Tom · 17 Oct 2019

On the Bo'ness Subject potential ideas:

Interweaving with the X38 at a later stage or part of the route anyway (Bo'ness-Winchburgh-Kirkliston) then via Craigiehall-Gyle-Western Approach Maybe?

Allocating Coaches to do an hourly or peak time service (EX3?) could be another option or extending every other EX2 down to Bo'ness but not sure how that would balance out timetable wise.

Or maybe even
Bo'ness-A904-Newton-South Queensferry-Dalmeny-then limited stop into Edinburgh.

Good expansion and trimming in the right places in November but would say Bo'ness definitely looks to have to potential and probably place with next highest service gripes now Winchburgh and Kirkliston are seeing improvement.

overthewater · 17 Oct 2019

There is already a proper coach service to boness ie 909...

It goes along the top road past BP station.

etetetetet · 17 Oct 2019

overthewater said:
There is already a proper coach service to boness ie 909...

It goes along the top road past BP station.

I think I remember seeing it now, actually. While the 909 does exist I think something with more frequency could be useful. Taking another look at the 909's timetable it's quite dire.

West Lothian buses

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