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Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

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reddragon

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Therefore, the solution is to disrupt public transport, is that your logic?

I have been in London during the protests. Most people use the tube, a few more walked or cycled because it was safe enough to do so. The air was so fresh in the centre, it was great to walk down usually busy roads and I didn't even see XR, just police road blocks.

Perhaps RMT are in cahoots with XR?
 
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Bantamzen

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If XR believe they have been successful, then they have whatever anyone else thinks.

I'm fascinated by this statement, sounds like a play right out the Trump playbook.

"I think I am successful, therefore I must be...."

The simple fact that so many are talking about it to them is a victory!

Well on the face of it, however it is not that they are being talked about as to what context. Just reading this thread with a reasonably balanced membership, it is becoming clear that XR are being seen in an increasingly bad light. So we can assume that in the wider community, many people will also see XR in an increasingly negative light. In time this bad light might cast a shadow on the important issue, i.e. just what practical measures can be taken to slow man made climate change, because people will start to associate XR with the people actually trying & able to drive the change to make a difference.

Negative public views towards a group promoting a cause, can & does often end by proxy in negative views on the cause itself. Its my view that XR's recent protests may have a negative effect in due course.
 

LOL The Irony

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I will not drive behind a diesel vehicle, I refuse to let them out of a side road instead letting cleaner small petrol cars out to provide a buffer. Large diesel SUVs are the worst followed by other commercials.
So you're discriminating against people who are probably driving because it's their job?
 

nlogax

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I will not drive behind a diesel vehicle, I refuse to let them out of a side road instead letting cleaner small petrol cars out to provide a buffer. Large diesel SUVs are the worst followed by other commercials.

By your logic (let's be kind and call it that) it's better to leave diesel vehicles sitting idle waiting to be let out of side roads than ushering them to where they need to be. Well done.
 

reddragon

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Well on the face of it, however it is not that they are being talked about as to what context. Just reading this thread with a reasonably balanced membership, it is becoming clear that XR are being seen in an increasingly bad light. So we can assume that in the wider community, many people will also see XR in an increasingly negative light. In time this bad light might cast a shadow on the important issue, i.e. just what practical measures can be taken to slow man made climate change, because people will start to associate XR with the people actually trying & able to drive the change to make a difference.

Negative public views towards a group promoting a cause, can & does often end by proxy in negative views on the cause itself. Its my view that XR's recent protests may have a negative effect in due course.

I know that where I live in the country nobody cares, or have some of the views seen on here. In London, support is huge and this is down to low car ownership, the sheer chocking pollution and high tube / bus / rail usage not seen elsewhere across the country.

It was the same with the suffragettes, Rosa Parkes & Luther-King, slavery etc, powerful vested interests created huge negativity and delay to maximise their personal gain. I find it difficult to understand why normal working people who suffer the consequences of this pollution and climate damage seem to fight their against their own betterment or improved quality of life.

We do not own oil, we just suffer from its use and gain few of the benefits which could be better gained by cleaner options.
 

reddragon

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By your logic (let's be kind and call it that) it's better to leave diesel vehicles sitting idle waiting to be let out of side roads than ushering them to where they need to be. Well done.

Again, being selfish as many of the views I have read on here, my health comes first.
 

GusB

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I will not drive behind a diesel vehicle, I refuse to let them out of a side road instead letting cleaner small petrol cars out to provide a buffer. Large diesel SUVs are the worst followed by other commercials.
What a ridiculous statement! How on earth do you know whether a car waiting to exit from a side road is a diesel vehicle? It's not as if they have I AM A DIESEL painted on the side, is it?
 

reddragon

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What a ridiculous statement! How on earth do you know whether a car waiting to exit from a side road is a diesel vehicle? It's not as if they have I AM A DIESEL painted on the side, is it?

Because I have learnt the probability for at least 90% of vehicles being one or another.
 

reddragon

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What a ridiculous statement! How on earth do you know whether a car waiting to exit from a side road is a diesel vehicle? It's not as if they have I AM A DIESEL painted on the side, is it?

Actually, branding however subtle is a easy give away! Little badges, colour tones. VW use green or blue for electric, red for petrol and black or no colour for diesel and distinct badges
 

Darandio

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Actually, branding however subtle is a easy give away! Little badges, colour tones. VW use green or blue for electric, red for petrol and black or no colour for diesel and distinct badges

What on earth is 'no colour'?
 

reddragon

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What on earth is 'no colour'?

VW have removed most of the branding from their diesel cars to hide the fact following diesel gate, removing most of the subtle hints, GTD badges, bluemotion etc and instead highlight GTE, e-golf etc. Even petrol labelling has become more obscure!
 

Bantamzen

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I know that where I live in the country nobody cares, or have some of the views seen on here. In London, support is huge and this is down to low car ownership, the sheer chocking pollution and high tube / bus / rail usage not seen elsewhere across the country.

It was the same with the suffragettes, Rosa Parkes & Luther-King, slavery etc, powerful vested interests created huge negativity and delay to maximise their personal gain. I find it difficult to understand why normal working people who suffer the consequences of this pollution and climate damage seem to fight their against their own betterment or improved quality of life.

We do not own oil, we just suffer from its use and gain few of the benefits which could be better gained by cleaner options.

It is not that they fight against it, it is that they get it rammed down their throats from people higher up 'the food chain'. For lower income families having that one holiday away a year, or treating themselves to a nice steak dinner can make a difference to their own personal wellbeing. So seeing someone gluing themselves to the road in front of them trying to make it to their low paid job, whilst those glued to the road have seemingly endless time & money to spend days or weeks doing nothing else, winds people up. Gluing oneself to the road might seem like a viable protest, but the reality is it does not hurt those intended but instead those not intended, those people whose support they really need. This is something the XR millennials seem not to understand.

For example, let's say a neighbour of mine wants to cut down a tree in their garden because they are struggling to manage it. I object because tress are nice and good for us, so I start a campaign to save the tree. Most of the neighbours agree, it would be nice to save the tree, so I choose to block the road off in protest. At first most stay onboard, the tree is nice and good for us we all agree. But then people can't get to work, deliveries are missed, the other neighbours start to be inconvenienced whilst the tree owner continues to insist that the tree goes. Soon the neighbours start to see me as a troublemaker, and start to resent the tree and agree with the owner that its not that important. The rot sets in. This is how it works in the real world, not the idealistic one of XR.

However if I rally around the neighbours and suggest we all do a little to help our neighbour manage the tree....
 

Darandio

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VW have removed most of the branding from their diesel cars to hide the fact following diesel gate, removing most of the subtle hints, GTD badges, bluemotion etc and instead highlight GTE, e-golf etc. Even petrol labelling has become more obscure!

Well that's strange, go and look at every 2019 Golf GTD currently for sale on AutoTrader (there are over 100) and take notice that it says GTD on the front, back and on each side.

Stop trolling.
 

reddragon

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It is not that they fight against it, it is that they get it rammed down their throats from people higher up 'the food chain'. For lower income families having that one holiday away a year, or treating themselves to a nice steak dinner can make a difference to their own personal wellbeing. So seeing someone gluing themselves to the road in front of them trying to make it to their low paid job, whilst those glued to the road have seemingly endless time & money to spend days or weeks doing nothing else, winds people up. Gluing oneself to the road might seem like a viable protest, but the reality is it does not hurt those intended but instead those not intended, those people whose support they really need. This is something the XR millennials seem not to understand.....

There are 2 answers to this.

1 - Why are people WITH the money buying high polluting SUVs when they can afford the freely available electric versions, and have the driveways for home charging.

2 - Only through Government legislation, taxation & democracy can electric cars and charging be made available to the people who need & deserve it the the most. When I had no money, I drove an old banger with poor tyres, wouldn't start on a cold morning so had to be pushed, broke down a lot and was polluting. Now I can afford it I have an EV rather than going on holidays to the USA or wherever. I think that is is absolutely wrong that poorest will have to pay 25p/kw and queue for public chargers when I can charge over night at 5p/kw because I have a drive.

btw, I have great sympathy with the poor sods who drive deliver vans on zero hours contracts, but I cannot change that only government.
 

Bantamzen

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There are 2 answers to this.

1 - Why are people WITH the money buying high polluting SUVs when they can afford the freely available electric versions, and have the driveways for home charging.

Ask the people glued to the road...…

2 - Only through Government legislation, taxation & democracy can electric cars and charging be made available to the people who need & deserve it the the most. When I had no money, I drove an old banger with poor tyres, wouldn't start on a cold morning so had to be pushed, broke down a lot and was polluting. Now I can afford it I have an EV rather than going on holidays to the USA or wherever. I think that is is absolutely wrong that poorest will have to pay 25p/kw and queue for public chargers when I can charge over night at 5p/kw because I have a drive.

btw, I have great sympathy with the poor sods who drive deliver vans on zero hours contracts, but I cannot change that only government.

And we are back to why aren't XR's backers using their finances to form a new political party to get influence where it matters? It is almost as if that the backers actually want the negativity towards environmental concerns....

<Reaches for tin foil hat>
 

headshot119

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Actually, branding however subtle is a easy give away! Little badges, colour tones. VW use green or blue for electric, red for petrol and black or no colour for diesel and distinct badges

Fake news

I have a white petrol VW
My brother has a blue diesel VW
My parents have a grey diesel VW
my neighbor has a red electric VW

Well that's strange, go and look at every 2019 Golf GTD currently for sale on AutoTrader (there are over 100) and take notice that it says GTD on the front, back and on each side.

Stop trolling.

I quite agree, obvious troll is obvious
 

reddragon

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Ask the people glued to the road...…
<Reaches for tin foil hat>

I have challenged such people for their hypocrisy. Their answer is they want to change but need help.

And we are back to why aren't XR's backers using their finances to form a new political party to get influence where it matters? It is almost as if that the backers actually want the negativity towards environmental concerns....

Our first past the post system does not help newcomers. Even the Greens with such a large vote only have 1 MP. Elsewhere in Local Government and MEPs have much higher alternative parties have representation due to proportional representation.
 

Bantamzen

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I have challenged such people for their hypocrisy. Their answer is they want to change but need help.

Hmmm, that really isn't going to help their cause one jot.

Our first past the post system does not help newcomers. Even the Greens with such a large vote only have 1 MP. Elsewhere in Local Government and MEPs have much higher alternative parties have representation due to proportional representation.

Well they have got to start somewhere, it doesn't seem to deter Brexit party members, so why would XR & their backers be so reluctant?
 

reddragon

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/16/extinction-rebellion-judicial-review-protest-ban

Extinction Rebellion lawyers apply for judicial review over protest ban

Outside the court, Tobias Garnett, a human rights lawyer working with XR’s legal strategy team, said it was claiming that the order was an infringement of the right to protest, disproportionate, and beyond the powers given to police by the Public Order Act.

“There’s a general consensus that this is unlawful overreach and that it risks criminalising anyone who seeks to protest about the climate and ecological emergency,” he said.

“As we saw from Sadiq Khan even, the mayor, yesterday, there is a suggestion that a lot of people think the police have overstepped the mark here, and we hope the court will agree.”

Garnett said judges had been asked for an expedited hearing scheduled for 2pm.

The Green party MEP Ellie Chowns was among those arrested in Trafalgar Square on Monday night. She is now one of several claimants in the judicial review. She said she had not been part of XR’s protests but was arrested after asking questions of police about the legality of their actions.

So who broke the law here then?
 

reddragon

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https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ple-became-the-heroes-of-extinction-rebellion

A battle won by
But anyone who was on Saturday’s London march or joined this week’s protests has seen how the great majority are unphotogenic “normals” of all ages, with battalions of those well past retirement. Nor are there many of the usual bothersome far-left groupuscules trying to hijack a mighty, mainstream event.

When Boris Johnson called them “uncooperative crusties”, he probably didn’t mean older people. It took his father, Stanley, joining the Rebellion to proudly own the label himself, alongside the stream of pensioners arrested day after day. It was 77-year-old Rabbi Jeffrey Newman kneeling down in Lombard Street opposite the Bank of England, leading a Shacharit service, who stole the limelight. Tuesday’s shocking blanket ban on all protests in London was roundly ignored, no more so than by the old contingents.

The oldies are often the most experienced, with campaign badges to show for it: Aldermaston CND was my first march, aged 14. Later came anti-Vietnam war demonstrations. This generation contains veterans of Greenham, the miners’ strike and the poll tax and anti-Iraq war protests.

Hundreds in their 70s and some in their 90s – a seasoned 1960s generation – have been arrested all over the world in these climate-emergency demonstrations. This is the fittest ever cohort of pensioners, not only able to sit down in the street, but to get up again, too. These are the best “arrestables” – free of children, with pensions. They have no need to worry about damaged CVs and criminal-record checks, and so are model protest material, with the least to lose. Police, mainly easy on arrestees of all ages, are doubly wary of dragging older folks down the street. Besides, it’s a duty for the guilty generation; we who burned the carbon, tipped the plastic into the sea and filthied the air for those who come after.
 

Kite159

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Sometimes, but as I said, I go on probability, don't have time to look up a book of car models to choose

So when driving along the road in your little electric car you slow down enough to be able to ID the vehicle waiting to come out of a side road before speeding up again if you think it's a diesel, but if you think it's a petrol you will let it out annoying all the vehicles stuck behind you?
 

reddragon

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So when driving along the road in your little electric car you slow down enough to be able to ID the vehicle waiting to come out of a side road before speeding up again if you think it's a diesel, but if you think it's a petrol you will let it out annoying all the vehicles stuck behind you?

No of course not. I will stop and cause a massive jam to let an EV out, but race to block any Audi drivers!

(runs for cover)
 
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