ScotRail, Maryhill line fleet allocation

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help clarify something that's been bugging me. Last week I was waiting on a train at Anniesland station quite late at night (I'm not a regular commuter from here just happened to be in the area visiting friends) and the first train that arrived was a Maryhill line service to Glasgow Queen street which was operated by a class 158. at the time I was quite tired so thought nothing of it and happily boarded the train, however the other day it got me wondering why this service was being operated by a class 158 instead of a 156 or even 170?. I know in the past this service has been operated by all three classes of DMU but I was once told (by a Scotrail conductor) this was because the Maryhill services where inter worked with the WHL, Falkirk Grahamston, Alloa and Dunblane services. however now that latter three have switched to EMU's and the WHL is exclusively 156 operated it got me wondering why a 158 would even be in the Glasgow area these days? (unless on an Inverness or Aberdeen substitution) as that class isn't used on either the WHL or GSW.
Thanks in advance

I can think three reasons. 1. There's a daily service direct from Fife via the Dalmeny chord which is in Glasgow all day 2. There are extra commuter services from Perth, ditto. 3. And for well-known reasons a whole swathe of services to Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness which should by now be HSTs are still DMUs. I don't think a 170 is ever used on the Maryhill services, they carry enough fresh air as it is.

Still see 158s at Queen St , i think they may do some Dundee and Perth stuff . 170s do get used or i have seen them before .
Heck the last Glasgow Central to Edinburgh via Shotts is a 158,

InOban said:

I can think three reasons. 1. There's a daily service direct from Fife via the Dalmeny chord which is in Glasgow all day 2. There are extra commuter services from Perth, ditto. 3. And for well-known reasons a whole swathe of services to Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness which should by now be HSTs are still DMUs. I don't think a 170 is ever used on the Maryhill services, they carry enough fresh air as it is.

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I had a 170 back in June on the last train from Annisland to Queen Street, needless to say I was the only passenger and the guard was surprised he had passengers.

(23:03 Glasgow - Annisland & 23:32 return, seems to arrive from Eastfield with the unit on the previous service heading towards Dundee as the 23:09 service)

Kite159 said:

I had a 170 back in June on the last train from Annisland to Queen Street, needless to say I was the only passenger and the guard was surprised he had passengers.

(23:03 Glasgow - Annisland & 23:32 return, seems to arrive from Eastfield with the unit on the previous service heading towards Dundee as the 23:09 service)

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Yeah , id say its one of the quieter services around Glasgow , Not so much to the North Glasgow , though Maryhill is a busy bit

I had 170 428 from Queen Street to Anniesland on the 27th August this year. Two days later I got a 158. I got the impression that the service was operated with whatever was lying around...

deltic14 said:

I had 170 428 from Queen Street to Anniesland on the 27th August this year. Two days later I got a 158. I got the impression that the service was operated with whatever was lying around...

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There has still got to be a diagram and a unit identified by it

PHILIPE said:

There has still got to be a diagram and a unit identified by it

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Are there no diagrams which can be operated by any out of 156/158/170 or are they all specific unit types?

hexagon789 said:

Are there no diagrams which can be operated by any out of 156/158/170 or are they all specific unit types?

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A diagram is the pre-planned programme or duty for a days work for a unit or member of train crew accordingly. and not bits and pieces that some people seem to think. Each class has a set of diagrams and which are numbered accordingly so if Corkerhill xxx Class 156 diagram is shown to work a set of trains then that is it's booked work. What happens in practice on a day is a different matter and is brought about by some sort of disruption.

As stated above, all diagrams are for a specific unit type. In theory, each member of each class should cycle through all the diagrams, but due to disruption and sometimes just not being convenient to yard staff that rarely happens in practice. Whilst a class 156 and 158 may be compatible with each other, they will have their own diagrams that they should be allocated to.

Again, in theory, there should be no diagrams or routes that are allocated to 'whatever is lying around', at least on a day-to-day basis. Those designing the diagrams may need to take such steps though, to ensure enough units are planned for the service to be covered. In practice this can differ, again based on disruption etc, which can some cases give the appearance that a service is operated by whatever happens to be available.

Also when it comes to diagrams, there will be certain diagrams that are specifically for units due to maintenance, so will finish at maintenance locations early, or will cover low distances over the course of a day to assist with presentation to maintenance within mileage allowances. Some will even remain local to large terminal stations or depots if they are being monitored for maintenance issues - likewise multi-only diagrams that only operate in multiple.

Yo take an example, some question the wisdom in allocating class 380s to the Cathcart Circle routes, however the advantage is due to the short distances involved, any defective units can be monitored, and those approaching the limit of their mileage allowance before maintenance can have this preserved. These are the kind of considerations that are built into diagramming - it's not all at random.

hexagon789 said:

Are there no diagrams which can be operated by any out of 156/158/170 or are they all specific unit types?

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PHILIPE said:

A diagram is the pre-planned programme or duty for a days work for a unit or member of train crew accordingly. and not bits and pieces that some people seem to think. Each class has a set of diagrams and which are numbered accordingly so if Corkerhill xxx Class 156 diagram is shown to work a set of trains then that is it's booked work. What happens in practice on a day is a different matter and is brought about by some sort of disruption.

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I think I've used diagram wrongly, I mean more whether there are any services which could be operated by any of those classes rather than always the same, but the above post would suggest not, it just happens occasionally a different class will cover.

Thanks for the info chaps, much appreciated. Interesting reading and always good to learn new stuff. As I said I was once told by a conductor the reason for all three classes of DMU being used on this route was due to Maryhill line service being inter worked with WHL, Alloa, Dunblane and Grahamston so I never questioned that explanation as it seemed logical. However I just found it strange that a 158 should still be operating this route since the switch to EMU's on most of these services with the remaining "Glasgow area" services being operated by 156's. I actually thought I must've mistaken a 156 for a 158 due to being exhausted, until I recalled using the toilet which was in the middle of the unit so it could've only been a 158.
Also wasn't aware that 158's still operated Queen street - Perth/Dundee as whenever I've been on one it has always been a 170 (albeit I haven't been on one of those services for a few months).
Thanks again

GaryBrown156 said:

Thanks for the info chaps, much appreciated. Interesting reading and always good to learn new stuff. As I said I was once told by a conductor the reason for all three classes of DMU being used on this route was due to Maryhill line service being inter worked with WHL, Alloa, Dunblane and Grahamston so I never questioned that explanation as it seemed logical. However I just found it strange that a 158 should still be operating this route since the switch to EMU's on most of these services with the remaining "Glasgow area" services being operated by 156's. I actually thought I must've mistaken a 156 for a 158 due to being exhausted, until I recalled using the toilet which was in the middle of the unit so it could've only been a 158.
Also wasn't aware that 158's still operated Queen street - Perth/Dundee as whenever I've been on one it has always been a 170 (albeit I haven't been on one of those services for a few months).
Thanks again

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Usually when i see the Dundee service its a 170 .

There's a fair few 158 workings from Glasgow to Perth/Dundee, which work back empty to Perth at some stage and either end up to Inverness on the first one the next day or head to Fife.

158s aren't uncommon and are more common early mornings and later at night just as much as 170s, where they regularly work in multiples (last Aberdeen-Perth or first few Glasgow locals, for starters)

The class 158s used on the Anniesland line are Corkerhill (Glasgow) based on Corkerhill diagrams. The traction requirements dictated in the diagrams will also be relevant to the crews working them. A driver not trained to drive 156s for example could not just take 'whatever is lying around' to operate the service.

170401 said:

The class 158s used on the Anniesland line are Corkerhill (Glasgow) based on Corkerhill diagrams. The traction requirements dictated in the diagrams will also be relevant to the crews working them. A driver not trained to drive 156s for example could not just take 'whatever is lying around' to operate the service.

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Why are the 158s based at Corkerhill?

To make space for HSTs at Haymarket. They are intended eventually to operate West Highland services.

170401 said:

To make space for HSTs at Haymarket. They are intended eventually to operate West Highland services.

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I see . No space at Eastfield then?

158s on the WHL , has that been quietly dropped.

Had a 158 today on the Maryhill line .

Eastfield isn't a maintenance depot, only a stabling & fuelling point.

Diagrams also need to be allocated in mind of attaching to other diagrams later in the day so compatibility is important. Mainly EMUs though.