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Wigan to Dunbar/Berwick-upon-Tweed

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Gathursty

Gathursty

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I'm attempting to do a circular trip aiming to ride the track inbetween Dunbar and Newcastle-upon-Tyne. I am not bothered if it calls or avoids Dunbar. I have a railcard.

Is there a ticket that will allow me to go Wigan - Carlisle - Edinburgh - Newcastle - (Tyne Valley or York/Leeds) or vice versa?

I had a look on the NRE app and it seems to only permit via Edinburgh only for Dunbar and via Newcastle only for Berwick which doesn't seem right to me at least geographically.
 
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Haywain

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Tickets from Wigan to Dunbar are routed Any Permitted and via Carlisle, which would suggest a circular journey is entirely possible.
 
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yorkie

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Yes, at present it's possible to do this with a simple return to Dunbar.

However this simplicity is seen as too complex by the Department for Transport, who have instructed the rail industry to put a stop to such fares; many flexibly routed fares have already faced the axe.

In order to make things more complicated, the rail industry is under pressure to phase out "Any Permitted" fares and replace them with fares restricted to a particular rroute, as the DfT erroneously thinks that additional restrictions and complexity makes things "simple" for passengers.

So enjoy it while you can!
 
Haywain

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yorkie said:
In order to make things more complicated, the rail industry is under pressure to phase out "Any Permitted" fares and replace them with fares restricted to a particular rroute, as the DfT erroneously thinks that additional restrictions and complexity makes things "simple" for passengers.
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In a case such as this, where there are two geographic routes available, the circular route option is unlikely to be removed.
 
Haywain

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andythebrave said:
Bear in mind that using a return to Dunbar means the service you use between Edinburgh and Newcastle must stop at Dunbar.
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However, Wigan to Edinburgh has similar routes available. There are also routeing guide easements which may allow the journey from the Newcasle direction to Dunbar to be made by doubling back at Edinburgh.
 
Gathursty

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andythebrave said:
Bear in mind that using a return to Dunbar means the service you use between Edinburgh and Newcastle must stop at Dunbar.
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Of course. You are right. As commenters have agreed that Dunbar and Edinburgh allow both directions of travel, I will decide between these two based on best price. No-one has mentoned Berwick-upon-Tweed so far, I assume a ticket with that destination wouldn't allow such flexibility in journey.
 
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theironroad

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yorkie said:
Yes, at present it's possible to do this with a simple return to Dunbar.

However this simplicity is seen as too complex by the Department for Transport, who have instructed the rail industry to put a stop to such fares; many flexibly routed fares have already faced the axe.

In order to make things more complicated, the rail industry is under pressure to phase out "Any Permitted" fares and replace them with fares restricted to a particular rroute, as the DfT erroneously thinks that additional restrictions and complexity makes things "simple" for passengers.

So enjoy it while you can!
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I was thinking on this a bit the other day when I read somewhere on a news site that lner are trialling single only fares with no returns.

If vtwc's successor goes the same way, I assume this will bring an end to the great flexibility of say a London to Glasgow saver return where it is possible to east coast, west coast or s&c among others and also to break return journey multiple times including overnight within its months validity.

Have I got this right?

Single tickets, restricted to one route only with no overnight stop allowed would be a massive deterioration in flexibility and huge increase in cost.
 
Haywain

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theironroad said:
Have I got this right?

Single tickets, restricted to one route only with no overnight stop allowed would be a massive deterioration in flexibility and huge increase in cost.
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Yes, you've got it right. But it would also lead to lower costs for a significant number of people, whereas those losing flexibility are a very small percentage. And LNER are doing a trial, any more of this is likely to be some way off.
 
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trebor79

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That does seem like a retrograde step, particularly when those who want to save money by being restricted to a particular route can already do so.
Case in point, I often do Attleborough to Sleaford. I can pay the full whammy £70 odd quid return which allows me to travel via Peterborough and Spalding or Peterborough and Grantham, or even Peterborough, Newark and Lincoln.
Or I can buy a cheaper split ticket, splitting and Spalding, so restricted to that route. I think there's also a via Spalding through ticket.
Sometimes I'll pay the higher price, particularly if I'm heading home later in the day when options via Spalding become few and far between.
There's also a very cheap any permitted off peak day return, and sometimes it's cheaper to buy one of those for the return journey and throw away the outward portion (yes, I know).
So in this case the DfT are going to remove both my flexibility *and* my cheapest option. Brilliant!
 
Haywain

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trebor79 said:
So in this case the DfT are going to remove both my flexibility *and* my cheapest option. Brilliant!
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I'm amazed that you already know the outcome of trial that hasn't even started for 3 specific long distance journeys.
 
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trebor79

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Haywain said:
I'm amazed that you already know the outcome of trial that hasn't even started for 3 specific long distance journeys.
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Sorry, should have been clearer that I'm thinking ahead to a point where the trial is deemed successful and then rolled out. If that's what happens.
Not sure that long distance intercity journeys are representative of lots of other journeys with a multitude of different routes.
For example, most people doing Edinburgh to London are likely to be perfectly happy to be limited to the ECML route. So if the trial is "successful" that doesn't necessarily mean the same approach will be desirable for all journeys.
 
Haywain

Haywain

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trebor79 said:
Sorry, should have been clearer that I'm thinking ahead to a point where the trial is deemed successful and then rolled out. If that's what happens.
Not sure that long distance intercity journeys are representative of lots of other journeys with a multitude of different routes.
For example, most people doing Edinburgh to London are likely to be perfectly happy to be limited to the ECML route. So if the trial is "successful" that doesn't necessarily mean the same approach will be desirable for all journeys.
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I believe that London to Edinburgh and London to Leeds both have many choices of route, but people are generally pretty happy not to have multiple choices of route even for shorter journeys. However, those choices are not reduced by the single leg pricing trail.
 
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theironroad

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There's no reason why they can't keep saver returns with the any permitted routing and the flexibility of break of journey as they are now and just reduce the price of the single, to roughly half what it is today.

A lot of people don't know exactly when their return journey will be and the flexibility is good without having to go through the rigmarole of buying a new ticket online or having to visit a ticket office.
 
BlueFox

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Gathursty said:
I note that both the Virgin Trains and Northern Rail websites seem incapable of showing the off-peak saver return (Route Any Permitted) (26-30 Railcard) fare of £73.15. Wish me luck tomorrow at North Western station!
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The Virgin one does show it. Look at the small print below the tickets and you'll see this: "The results above show single ticket prices, based on the fastest available journey, to offer more flexibility to our customers. If you are making a return journey, there may be a cheaper fare available, particularly if you are travelling with a train operator other than Virgin Trains. Please click here to check if these are available for your journey."

Click on the thing that says click here, and it will show you all the available tickets. Click on "check for trains" next to the £110.80 ticket (that's the price without a railcard).
 
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