• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

RMT dispute on Merseyrail

Status
Not open for further replies.

nedchester

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2008
Messages
2,093
With 30 September getting closer, what is the likelihood of the next three proposed strike days going ahead? These are currently scheduled for Monday 30 September, Wednesday 2 & Friday 4 October?

From the Merseyrail website:

Strike Action on Monday 30 September, Wednesday 2 and Friday 4 October has been cancelled. The normal train timetable will run on these dates.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

M28361M

Member
Joined
15 May 2014
Messages
531
Location
Liverpool
The Echo is claiming that nine new strikes have been announced - for every Saturday in November and December. However, unless I'm being daft (highly likely) I can't find the article on the RMT website that they are quoting below.
Writing on the RMT website today, the union's General Secretary Mick Cash said: "Our discussions with Merseyrail on the Role of the Guard have been ongoing and your negotiating team have continued to attempt to carry out the instructions of the NEC, reporting back in detail at all key points in what has been a drawn out negotiating process at ACAS."

Mr Cash said the union is today entering into an 'avoidance of disputes' meeting to discuss the various options and the dispute.

But he added: "Therefore, to focus the minds of management and to guarantee a safe and secure railway the National Executive Committee is instructing all Merseyrail Guard, Guard Standard Managers and Train Drivers not to book on for any shifts that commence between: -

00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 2nd November 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 9th November 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 16th November 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 23rd November 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 30th November 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 7th December 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 14th December 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 21st December 2019
00.01 hours until 23.59 hours on Saturday 28th December 2019"

The union said that it will also instruct members not to work any overtime or rest days, from 00.01 hours on Sunday 3rd November 2019, until further notice.
 

Polarbear

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2008
Messages
1,705
Location
Birkenhead

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,533
Location
Redcar
We are not doing a debate on this thread about the rights/wrongs of DOO in anyway shape or form. This thread is only concerned about the ongoing dispute between the RMT and Merseyrail.

This thread is solely to be used for posting updates about the dispute i.e. announced strike dates, strike day timetables or the progress of any talks between the parties. Every other possible aspect of DOO has been discussed, at great length, on other threads and it will not take long to find them if anyone really wishes to review it.

At this stage DOO has reached the same level as Brexit in both its toxicity and in the way the supporters or detractors will not change their mind no matter what is said by either side. As such the Forum Staff are not willing to allow every thread which is touched by DOO to simply become a reheated version of the threads which have gone before.
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,121
Watch this space tomorrow
DFT & GTR are criticised for insufficient engagement with unions over the introduction of the OBS.
Merseyrail fully engage the RMT but end up deadlocked, with the union eventually appearing to be running rings around them .
There appears no consensus on best practice going forward in these situations from either the industry’s leaders or politicians
 
Last edited:

jamesst

Member
Joined
4 May 2011
Messages
1,114
Location
Merseyside
DFT & GTR are criticised for insufficient engagement with unions over the introduction of the OBS.
Merseyrail fully engage the RMT but end up deadlocked, with the union eventually appearing to be running rings around them .
There appears no consensus on best practice going forward in these situations from either the industry’s leaders or politicians

I'll edit that for you, Merseyrail give the impression they fully engage with the RMT...
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
9,930
A pity that the entire Merseyrail franchise is not being turned over to being a Liverpool version of the Manchester Metrolink system, with their tram units able to access normal railway platforms.
Yes, I've said that for a while. Using high floor trams for which in time street running could be developed for parts of the city. And the whole thing taken out of the national rail network.
 

Fawkes Cat

Established Member
Joined
8 May 2017
Messages
2,942
A pity that the entire Merseyrail franchise is not being turned over to being a Liverpool version of the Manchester Metrolink system, with their tram units able to access normal railway platforms.

And this impacts on the current dispute how?

There's plenty to speculate on about Merseyside public transport (for example, someone seems to have got the Echo to publish his crayon CGI pictures of what a new Overhead would look like) but we've got a whole sub-forum for us to speculate in. Shouldn't we move 'trams for Merseyside' to there?
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,121
I'll edit that for you, Merseyrail give the impression they fully engage with the RMT...
Merseyrail openly stated from the outset their intention that a future onboard role would be primarily concerned with passengers rather than door controls , & RMT agreed to enter mediation on that understanding .
 
Last edited:

virgintrain1

Member
Joined
29 Jul 2011
Messages
207
News just in from RMT

"RMT secures major breakthrough and suspends planned action as Merseyrail table new offer that protects the role of the guard

Rail union RMT today suspended all action in the long-running dispute on Merseyrail after the company tabled an offer that guarantees both a guard on the train and the safety-critical role of that guard in the despatch process and ensures the safest possible method by having guards close the train doors at the platform/train interface.

The breakthrough offer comes after nearly three years of political, industrial and public campaigning by the union and after intense negotiations between RMT and the company that ran late into Friday evening.

The Merseyrail proposals have been examined in detail today at a meeting of RMT reps and the union’s National Executive and represent significant movement on the crucial despatch issue that has enabled the union to suspend all action in the current dispute. There is further work to do now around the fine detail but the union is committed in principle to the despatch procedure and to taking that process forwards with a view to getting a final deal over the line.

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said:
“Today’s breakthrough in the long-running Merseyrail guards’ dispute has been achieved after nearly three years of hard political, industrial and public campaigning and I want to pay tribute to RMT members who have been prepared to put themselves on the line at significant personal cost to defend safety and accessibility on the railway. The progress that has been achieved has been extraordinary. We have pushed back from the threat of wholesale Driver Only Operation across Merseyrail to not only a guarantee of a guard on every train but a guarantee that that guard will retain a safety-critical role in the despatch process including the most operationally safe method of guards closing the doors at the platform/train interface. That is a significant development that will resonate throughout the rail industry.

“I want to thank our negotiating team, led by our Regional Organiser John Tilley, who have worked tirelessly to pin down the crucial movement that has resulted in this offer which gives us enough in principle to suspend all planned action in the dispute. There is some further work to do now around the fine detail but the union remains committed, as we have been right from the start, to getting a final deal over the line that protects both the guard and their safety-critical role on Merseyrail trains.”
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,125
Location
Liverpool
So is that the end of the matter?

Downside for me is I get 25 minutes less exercise if I don't have to walk to LPY. ;)
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,541
Merseyrail openly stated from the outset their intention that a future onboard role would be primarily concerned with passengers rather than door controls , & RMT agreed to enter mediation on that understanding .

Most recently the RMT and Merseyrail agreed their preferred method of operation. It was Merseytravel IE the local authority that caused the most recent impasse by declaring that the train operator and union method was unacceptable. They seem to have gotten over that according to the latest news.

Hopefully so because it deserves putting to bed, whichever side of the debate you're on.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2013
Messages
1,288
Sounds good to me, this being my preferred method.

Any reason why you prefer this? If the guard can close, surely they can open as well. What purpose does having the driver open rather than the guard serve?

Ignore me just saw the moderators comment above.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,415
I just hope the people of Merseyside are paying for this and not taking even more subsidy from the rest of us taxpayers.
 

bionic

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2013
Messages
883
If this is true, then its great for the railways and Merseyside in general. I've always had huge respect for the ASLEF Merseyrail drivers who refused to cross their RMT colleagues picket lines.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,125
Location
Liverpool
I use these trains every time I go to the city centre and to LPY, (I can't remember when I last drove the car into the city). I have absolutely no problem with these new trains having guards, in fact I think its well and truly justified. I also much prefer the automatic door opening control over having to operate the push buttons (i.e. LNW, I always get the impression they are not going to open).

If it costs me as a taxpayer more, so be it, I like the service.

What is the cost to the city coffers in redundancy pay if dozens of staff are laid-off, never mind them possibly being unemployed for years/months and the welfare payments that would bring? As employed staff they will be paying tax back into the system.

Why does everything have to be a "race to the bottom"?
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,121
Why does everything have to be a "race to the bottom"?
Proposals concerned restructuring intended to better reflect a modern metros requirements utilising today’s technology , not redundancies or pay cuts ,apart from possibly a small number of temporary staff, racing to the bottom never came into it
 
Last edited:

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,178
Great news.

The Merseyrail rail system must be the envy of every UK city outside London.

Manchester’s trams are fab, but seems to take an eternity from the extremity of the network to get to the city centre.

Just needs the Merseyrail network extending to Neston, Burscough Bridge and Skelmersdale.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,153
Location
West of Andover
Hopefully the finances of Merseytravel won't be high that badly they won't have to massively hike up the cost of fares for anybody who uses the highly subsidised network, or sell the new trains to another company to lease them back to release capital (i.e. TFL with the 345s?)
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
Hopefully the finances of Merseytravel won't be high that badly they won't have to massively hike up the cost of fares for anybody who uses the highly subsidised network, or sell the new trains to another company to lease them back to release capital (i.e. TFL with the 345s?)
Keeping guards on everything was meant to cost about £4-5m net* /pa which Merseytravel have to find from somewhere in addition to other cost pressures.
*they wanted a 2nd staff member on board at certain times.

When the stock is full in service and drivers have been happily opening the doors for a while this could of course be revisited - the timing would then also align with the DfT Grant talks...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top