TPE Delay - Taxi Reimbursement

megabusser · 16 Oct 2019

A few weeks ago I was travelling Transpennine Express from Manchester to Edinburgh on an Advance ticket. I saw about 90 minutes before travelling that my train would be terminated at Preston with a replacement bus (due to lack of staff). It was due in at 11:30pm, late enough, so I tweeted and asked if I could take an earlier TPE train to Carlisle and catch an LNER train to Edinburgh (LNERs were diverted that weekend!). Reply stated that there was no ticket acceptance in place and I’d have to take my booked train and replacement bus.

Of course, the bus took far longer than the train, and arrived in Edinburgh at around 1am. I had left my bike parked in Edinburgh Waverley station, but by the time the bus arrived, the station had closed and the security guard told me I couldn’t retrieve my bike.

I had no other way of getting home, so jumped in a taxi.

I submitted a Delay Repay, but also an email with a photo of my taxi receipt, explaining why I took it. This was rejected as I didn’t speak to a member of staff before taking the taxi. It was 1am and the only member of staff was a coach driver and security guard.

It’s not a lot of money, but I’m annoyed by the principle. Any thoughts on what rights I have?

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 16 Oct 2019

Given the circumstances you describe, I would absolutely fight this.

If TPE continue to refuse, refer the matter to the Ombudsman: https://www.railombudsman.org/making-a-complaint/start-a-complaint/

221129 · 17 Oct 2019

Who do they expect you to speak to? There is no TPE staff at Edinburgh!

maxbarnish · 17 Oct 2019

I would also suggest you complain over the unacceptable actions of the staff member who refused bike retrieval and endangered your safety, thereby requiring you to take the taxi. The complication in the case as presented may be if your ticket ends at Edinburgh and the taxi was for a part of the journey that was not intended to be by train. That is why I would focus the complaint more on the unacceptable actions of the member of staff at Edinburgh as a health and safety issue, rather than necessarily a rail contract issue. I would suggest appeal to TPE, then write to the station manager at Edinburgh regarding the staff misbehaviour, and then to Ombudsman regarding both aspects?

Haywain · 17 Oct 2019

maxbarnish said:
I would also suggest you complain over the unacceptable actions of the staff member who refused bike retrieval and endangered your safety, thereby requiring you to take the taxi. The complication in the case as presented may be if your ticket ends at Edinburgh and the taxi was for a part of the journey that was not intended to be by train. That is why I would focus the complaint more on the unacceptable actions of the member of staff at Edinburgh as a health and safety issue, rather than necessarily a rail contract issue. I would suggest appeal to TPE, then write to the station manager at Edinburgh regarding the staff misbehaviour, and then to Ombudsman regarding both aspects?

What's all this about 'endangering safety' and 'a health and safety issue'? The station was closed, pure and simple. Access is not permitted to the public because the very limited closed hours allow all sorts of work to take place that cannot happen when public access is available.

221129 · 17 Oct 2019

maxbarnish said:
I would also suggest you complain over the unacceptable actions of the staff member who refused bike retrieval and endangered your safety, thereby requiring you to take the taxi. The complication in the case as presented may be if your ticket ends at Edinburgh and the taxi was for a part of the journey that was not intended to be by train. That is why I would focus the complaint more on the unacceptable actions of the member of staff at Edinburgh as a health and safety issue, rather than necessarily a rail contract issue. I would suggest appeal to TPE, then write to the station manager at Edinburgh regarding the staff misbehaviour, and then to Ombudsman regarding both aspects?

Absolute drivel.

Llanigraham · 17 Oct 2019

maxbarnish said:
I would also suggest you complain over the unacceptable actions of the staff member who refused bike retrieval and endangered your safety,

Can you please explain how this endangered their safety?

thereby requiring you to take the taxi. The complication in the case as presented may be if your ticket ends at Edinburgh and the taxi was for a part of the journey that was not intended to be by train. That is why I would focus the complaint more on the unacceptable actions of the member of staff at Edinburgh as a health and safety issue,

Can you please explain how this is a Health & Safety matter?

rather than necessarily a rail contract issue. I would suggest appeal to TPE, then write to the station manager at Edinburgh regarding the staff misbehaviour, and then to Ombudsman regarding both aspects?

Have you considered that perhaps the person at the station did not have a set of keys to allow access?
Also, if they are just a Security Guard, would they have the authority to allow the taxi?

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

Haywain said:
What's all this about 'endangering safety' and 'a health and safety issue'? The station was closed, pure and simple. Access is not permitted to the public because the very limited closed hours allow all sorts of work to take place that cannot happen when public access is available.

I would suggest that if the bicycle racks were inside the station there should be a process in place to retrieve bicycles in the event of a train delay (perhaps by being escorted to the rack by a security guard, or perhaps by the security guard retrieving it and bringing it out for you having been given the key), otherwise due consideration should be given to relocating them somewhere outside the locked area of the station instead. It wouldn't be acceptable for a station car park to be locked in this manner, it should not be acceptable for a bicycle rack either.

So yes, I would certainly complain about this. But I would frame the complaint about being against the policy, not against the member of staff who was simply enforcing it.

And yes, dumping someone at a station unable to retrieve their bicycle for their onward journey is a potential safety risk to them (one is certainly safer passing through rough areas of a city on a bicycle than walking, for instance). What if he did not have the funds to take a taxi?

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

221129 said:
Absolute drivel.

So if it'd been a car park and his car had been locked in, would that be OK?

221129 · 17 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
So if it'd been a car park and his car had been locked in, would that be OK?

The complaint is at Transpennine for the delayed train and bus and not making any arrangements and nothing to do with the security guard. TPE know the score that if there is a late running service and pax need access they need to arrange that with Network Rail.

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

221129 said:
The complaint is at Transpennine for the delayed train and bus and not making any arrangements and nothing to do with the security guard. TPE know the score that if there is a late running service and pax need access they need to arrange that with Network Rail.

The complaint is against the policy of having no process for retrieving a bicycle at the station on arrival of a delayed rail replacement service that arrives after station closure. I'd suggest it should be made to Network Rail as it's their policy.

The member of staff was simply doing his (incorrectly defined) job.

Darandio · 17 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The complaint is against the policy of having no process for retrieving a bicycle at the station on arrival of a delayed rail replacement service that arrives after station closure. I'd suggest it should be made to Network Rail as it's their policy.

The member of staff was simply doing his (incorrectly defined) job.

Indeed, but the drivel quote was surely in response to the suggestion that somehow the events had endangered their safety. Which is drivel.

221129 · 17 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The complaint is against the policy of having no process for retrieving a bicycle at the station on arrival of a delayed rail replacement service that arrives after station closure. I'd suggest it should be made to Network Rail as it's their policy.

The member of staff was simply doing his (incorrectly defined) job.

The complaint is with Transpennine. Network Rail will not pay out for the taxi due to Transpennines delay. Nor should they.

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

221129 said:
The complaint is with Transpennine. Network Rail will not pay out for the taxi due to Transpennines delay. Nor should they.

TPE are the ones who should compensate as it was their service that was delayed, but I would also make a separate complaint to Network Rail for not having a process in place to receive bicycles when the station is closed in this kind of circumstance, either requiring a process to be put in place or consideration to be given to relocating at least some of the racks.

When I am making a complaint, financial recompense is only a small part. I generally would also like the situation that led to it to be investigated and, if feasible, resolved, and if not feasible a rational explanation to be given as to why it cannot be resolved.

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

Darandio said:
Indeed, but the drivel quote was surely in response to the suggestion that somehow the events had endangered their safety. Which is drivel.

If his journey home was via a rough part of town, and he didn't have money for a taxi and so had to walk, it's quite possible that it would have done exactly that, though as he could afford a taxi it in practice didn't. You are much safer cycling through a rough area than walking - it's much easier to get away from trouble.

yorkie · 17 Oct 2019

It's also well worth pointing out that the customer was prepared to inconvenience themselves by departing earlier in order to avoid a delay, and the cobcequences of that delay, and thus reduce the rail industry's liabilities for delay compensation and/or provision of alternative tranpodt methods, however this offer was refused. This was within the control of the rail industry.

I don't agree with such anti passenger policies and they do have concequences that cost the rail industry more money than if the rail industry agreed to reasonable requests and acted in the interest of the customer as well as - ultimately - themselves.

It is often the case that such requests are approved , bit not consistently enough in my opinion. This is why i would be persuing it. It was not outside their control.

Bletchleyite · 17 Oct 2019

yorkie said:
It is often the case that such requests are approved , bit not consistently enough in my opinion. This is why i would be persuing it. It was not outside their control.

This is a very good point. TPE could have arranged for him to arrive in time to retrieve his bicycle but actively chose not to do so.

bb21 · 17 Oct 2019

megabusser said:
A few weeks ago I was travelling Transpennine Express from Manchester to Edinburgh on an Advance ticket. I saw about 90 minutes before travelling that my train would be terminated at Preston with a replacement bus (due to lack of staff). It was due in at 11:30pm, late enough, so I tweeted and asked if I could take an earlier TPE train to Carlisle and catch an LNER train to Edinburgh (LNERs were diverted that weekend!). Reply stated that there was no ticket acceptance in place and I’d have to take my booked train and replacement bus.

Of course, the bus took far longer than the train, and arrived in Edinburgh at around 1am. I had left my bike parked in Edinburgh Waverley station, but by the time the bus arrived, the station had closed and the security guard told me I couldn’t retrieve my bike.

I had no other way of getting home, so jumped in a taxi.

I submitted a Delay Repay, but also an email with a photo of my taxi receipt, explaining why I took it. This was rejected as I didn’t speak to a member of staff before taking the taxi. It was 1am and the only member of staff was a coach driver and security guard.

It’s not a lot of money, but I’m annoyed by the principle. Any thoughts on what rights I have?

Did you make it clear to them in the initial tweet that you needed to retrieve a bike and were worried you may arrive too late for it?

WesternLancer · 17 Oct 2019

I presume the thing the rail industry (well, TPE in this case) would expect a person to do would have been to speak to on train staff before Preston, and ask them to contact TPE control about the bike - after the switch to the bus replacement service there would be no TPE people to speak to.

I suspect that not many people would actually realise they would have to do this in practice.

Daft that TPE refused request to change to service that was earlier, but I guess they did not want to negotiate with LNER over the avoided ORCATS payment due to Advance ticket.

megabusser · 17 Oct 2019

Thanks for the many replies. Just to clarify, when I asked about boarding an earlier train via Twitter I didn’t mention the bike retrieval, as I hadn’t considered the potential problem until I arrived at the locked station!

I don’t blame the security guard, who I don’t imagine would have the authority to let me in - just following policy.

I’ll fire off a complaint via the ombudsman and see where it gets me. Incidentally, after the initial email refusing my claim, I said

“Please reconsider the claim, or advise who I can contact (complaints department or ombudsman) to pursue it, as I cannot understand the rationale become the decision,” which the reply completely ignored.

WesternLancer · 17 Oct 2019

megabusser said:
Thanks for the many replies. Just to clarify, when I asked about boarding an earlier train via Twitter I didn’t mention the bike retrieval, as I hadn’t considered the potential problem until I arrived at the locked station!

I don’t blame the security guard, who I don’t imagine would have the authority to let me in - just following policy.

I’ll fire off a complaint via the ombudsman and see where it gets me. Incidentally, after the initial email refusing my claim, I said

“Please reconsider the claim, or advise who I can contact (complaints department or ombudsman) to pursue it, as I cannot understand the rationale become the decision,” which the reply completely ignored.

I suspect you could go direct to Rail Ombudsman now, you have given them a chance to respond and resolve this (poss 2 chances), they did not - can't see you have anything to lose by doing that. It's not exactly TPE's fault that you could not get your bike, but maybe the Ombudsman can decide who is at fault in this instance.

WesternLancer · 17 Oct 2019

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/passengers/our-stations/edinburgh-waverley/

NR manage the station, and make it clear there are bike parking facils - I don't see opening times listed on web page so you may reasonably expect to get bike on train arrival, or rail replacement bus arrival for the same reason IMHO. A point you could make to the Ombudsman.

National Rail website does not state opening hours (apart from ticket office etc hours) but does say wheelchair access 24 hours, suggesting whole site is available 24 hours a day.

221129 · 18 Oct 2019

WesternLancer said:
I suspect you could go direct to Rail Ombudsman now, you have given them a chance to respond and resolve this (poss 2 chances), they did not - can't see you have anything to lose by doing that. It's not exactly TPE's fault that you could not get your bike, but maybe the Ombudsman can decide who is at fault in this instance.

That's not how it works.

tpjm · 20 Oct 2019

I would think that whilst the delay is down to TPE, the fact that you were unable to retrieve your bike was down to the station.

You could argue that it would have been reasonable for you to have informed a member of rail staff before arrival at the destination of your need to retrieve your bike, however, as this is a major station and the specific opening times are not listed on the website, you could easily counter that as you were not aware the station would be locked and secured at your time of arrival.

As the reason for your taxi not technically being TPE's fault, I would suggest a complaint to the station, as they should have policies in place to allow customers to retrieve these items. If a train arrives super late (i.e. past the station closing time) what happens then? The least they can do is publish the opening hours on the website.

maxbarnish · 20 Oct 2019

I am disappointed by the unhelpful tone of some responses. In my view, the responsibility is chiefly the guard whose actions directly endangered safety and secondly his employer who made it more difficult for him to be helpful. Clearly not all agree or think that stranding someone is a safety issue. I am willing to agree to disagree, and will make no further comment.

TPE Delay - Taxi Reimbursement

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