Craig2601
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Is there two different refurbs that have been used? Some seem more modern than others; have the ex London midland ones been refurbed to a different spec?
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Scotrail class 320 refurbs
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AlistairCowell
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Yes, Class 320/4s (ex-London Midland Class 321s) were refurbished to a different spec to the original Class 320/3 units.
Class 320/3 units received PRM-TSI mods and the installation of the toilet in 2011-13 at Wabtec Doncaster, and interiors were refurbished by KBRS in 2017-19.
Class 320/4 were converted and refurbished by Wabtec Doncaster in 2015-7, with the second batch (ex-Great Northern) done by Wabtec Doncaster in 2018.
On Class 320/3 units, the seats have modern seat handles and overhead luggage racks as well as paintings at each end.
The Class 320/4s still got original BR seat handles and overhead luggage racks. They have a modern type PIS systems.
First Class lighting was retained despite the area now being part of standard class.
Even more bizzare, overhead luggage racks were dark grey on Wabtec Doncaster refurbished sets (320411 to 418), while Wabtec Kilmarnock refurbished sets
(320401, 403, 404, 418 and 420) have light grey overhead luggage racks!
The windows adjacent to the accessible toilet is overlapped on Class 320/3 which is not the case on Class 320/4.
Class 320/3 units received PRM-TSI mods and the installation of the toilet in 2011-13 at Wabtec Doncaster, and interiors were refurbished by KBRS in 2017-19.
Class 320/4 were converted and refurbished by Wabtec Doncaster in 2015-7, with the second batch (ex-Great Northern) done by Wabtec Doncaster in 2018.
On Class 320/3 units, the seats have modern seat handles and overhead luggage racks as well as paintings at each end.
The Class 320/4s still got original BR seat handles and overhead luggage racks. They have a modern type PIS systems.
First Class lighting was retained despite the area now being part of standard class.
Even more bizzare, overhead luggage racks were dark grey on Wabtec Doncaster refurbished sets (320411 to 418), while Wabtec Kilmarnock refurbished sets
(320401, 403, 404, 418 and 420) have light grey overhead luggage racks!
The windows adjacent to the accessible toilet is overlapped on Class 320/3 which is not the case on Class 320/4.
Craig2601
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Ahh that makes sense cheers
Alanko
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The 320s just seem to be filthy in general. I see them in Central a fair bit, and they look consistently filthy. Is it because the front of them is so flat? I rode one from Coatbridge to Cumbernauld recently (I must be a glutton for self punishment). The windows were sort of sepia coloured. On closer inspection, it was dirt!
The 314s look dirty at times, and a few seem to have hastily scrubbed out graffiti. There are one or two surprisingly clean units in the old SPT blood and custard scheme kicking around.
Alanko
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Amazing powers of observation! How can you tell?
I snapped the exterior of a 320, but actually took the next train to Cumbernauld,which was a 318.
The top of the cab looks smoked. Does this happen when sets are coupled together?
Are the 320s and 318s filthy because of the routes they are usually on, because Scotrail care less about them than the flagship 385s, because of their designs (both types seem quite flat-sided) or down to something else?
The seat design is the big giveaway, 320s seats taper from below shoulder height & there’s a narrower headrest. The thing that confirmed it is the lower ceiling in the top RH corner of the pic, 320s have flat ceilings.
Why are they so dirty on the roof? Mix of pan grease & carbon plus all the crud that leaches through the city centre tunnels they spend so long in, plus stabling at places where they don’t get washed for days on end. Probably find the ones that overnight at Yoker or Bathgate are cleaner externally than the ones that end up at places like Motherwell
Andrew1395
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318,319,320,321 not trains worthy of future use as we approach the third decade of the 21st century. All good at the time, but that has now passed. Hopefully all due to be replaced within five years.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Oh no don't say that we were led to believe they still had life left in them.
Craig2601
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Does anyone much prefer the refurbs on the 318s? Think there seems to be more leg room and tables are actually useful!
AlistairCowell
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Remember Class 321 will be converted to become hydrogen trains within the next few years, and Class 319s are being converted to become Class 769 bi-modes (with trouble). As for the Class 318s and 320s they will be around for at least 10 years.
You never know we might even get more Class 320 units in the near future (converted from Class 321s of course)
delt1c
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Wasnt aware 320's stabled at Bathgate. Do they work ECS?
AlistairCowell
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Yes, between Airdrie and Bathgate as an ECS service. They do not run in passenger service.
Scotrail314209
Established Member
I think it’d be worth taking the 321/322 that are coming off from Northern and converting them to 320. There are still a lot of peak time 3 car formations on argyle, so it would be really useful as the fleet seem stretched now.
I agree partly with this
I would take the 321/9 and 322 and use them on Paisley Canal and some Inverclyde services that need 4 cars rather than 3 or 6 cars
This would allow 318/320 3 car units operating Inverclyde to operate as 6 car Neilston services
More like ten years more service .
Get a fair few 318s on that route .
AlistairCowell
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It would be very interesting to see Class 317 being converted to become additional Class 318 three-car sets.
I bet they would be a lot different from the original Class 318 units.
I bet they would be a lot different from the original Class 318 units.
NorthClyde320
Member
If ScotRail were to get the 321/9 & 322 units they could allocate them to Cath/Neil/Newt allowing the 318/320 to strenthen Argyle line services & 380/1 Ayrshire/Inverclyde services, at peak times the 321/322 could work some Inverclyde & Canals if possible. All of this would mean another 2 classes into the fleet though, personally I think it would be more sensible if they could get the 8 remaining 321/4 units for conversion, allowing then to complete the 401-420 batch.
snookertam
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I think any options for additional class 320s here would be through conversion of class 321 units. This would allow the further strengthening from 3 to 6 cars across many routes. Would also mean that class 385s could be concentrated on key routes such as Lanark and Shotts with possibly the occasional Inverclyde. Would also allow 20m units to concentrate on Cathcart, with 23m units to work other lines. I don't think 4 car units would be helpful as it just adds yet another train type and length.
The issue with having further class 320 units however is storage space. Quite simply, where do they all go to be stabled? Yoker may work if they are being used on that side, however for those being used on the Cathcart routes it becomes difficult unless additional units can be stabled at Glasgow Central overnight.
On the topic of refurbishments and conversions, one thing I hope is accounted for when the units are refurbished is additional standing space. These units are used for passenger journeys that are typically 20-30 minutes long, and there's not necessarily any need to cram all the seats in. The seats around the doors could probably do with being removed, with the intrusive panels taken away. Perhaps something like the 314s which currently have the single seats adjacent to the doors would work. What typically happens on a 320 during the morning peak on the Cathcart lines is that the space around the doors is crush loaded due to the big panels in the way. These units may have been originally specified for outer suburban work but they now cover inner suburban routes, and so the interior could be re-done to reflect that sort of work.
The issue with having further class 320 units however is storage space. Quite simply, where do they all go to be stabled? Yoker may work if they are being used on that side, however for those being used on the Cathcart routes it becomes difficult unless additional units can be stabled at Glasgow Central overnight.
On the topic of refurbishments and conversions, one thing I hope is accounted for when the units are refurbished is additional standing space. These units are used for passenger journeys that are typically 20-30 minutes long, and there's not necessarily any need to cram all the seats in. The seats around the doors could probably do with being removed, with the intrusive panels taken away. Perhaps something like the 314s which currently have the single seats adjacent to the doors would work. What typically happens on a 320 during the morning peak on the Cathcart lines is that the space around the doors is crush loaded due to the big panels in the way. These units may have been originally specified for outer suburban work but they now cover inner suburban routes, and so the interior could be re-done to reflect that sort of work.
43096
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Or just convert the 321/9s and 322s to 320s - it would be cheaper as they are already PRM modified.
AlistairCowell
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Went on 321404 the other day and noticed a few differences from the first batch (411-417). It has an easy access to the cycle space (like on the Class 320/3), which the earlier 320411 to 417 batch don't. Unit 320404 interior doors have a silver rim (this might be applied to 320401, 403, 418 and 420 as well).
The correct answer to the stabling question would probably be a new EMU heavy maintenance facility at Ravenscraig. That would take pressure off Yoker and Shields and be able to do more than Motherwell TMD/Weighs/Derby. Whether there’s still space there that isn’t built on or planned for something is another matter.
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