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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

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EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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Is Class 769 Flex testing still ongoing on the mainline do we know? Surely the brake testing went ok, or maybe not.
I just can't understand now after this length of time why at least one of these units is not out either testing or mileage accumulation or Driver training or something on a regular basis you would have thought.
 
S

swissrailpassion

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EE Andy b1 said:
Is Class 769 Flex testing still ongoing on the mainline do we know? Surely the brake testing went ok, or maybe not.
I just can't understand now after this length of time why at least one of these units is not out either testing or mileage accumulation or Driver training or something on a regular basis you would have thought.
Click to expand...
It's nothing short of a scandal.
 
jonesy3001

jonesy3001

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EE Andy b1 said:
Is Class 769 Flex testing still ongoing on the mainline do we know? Surely the brake testing went ok, or maybe not.
I just can't understand now after this length of time why at least one of these units is not out either testing or mileage accumulation or Driver training or something on a regular basis you would have thought.
Click to expand...
I think by the time you see a 769, the wigan - lostock line will be electrified also the stalybridge to manchester victoria line.
 
A

AndrewE

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Like the TPE locos and Mk3s, it seemed a good idea at the time, and would have delivered benefits if it had worked but seems to have turned out to be just too difficult. UK seems to have lost the ability to manage and do engineering. It will be interesting to hear the results of a post-mortem after the project has been formally abandoned. How will Wales cope without them? Or is TfW an organisation that will make things happen, in contrast to English TOC behaviour? I recognise that Scotrail (which might have more in common with TfW) is having problems with its own refurb projects though.
This differs completely from TPE because that was management inertia: those are proven trains, with plenty of capacity for expansion if it had been progressed, but it seems that they just couldn't be a***d to make it work.
 
A

AMD

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jonesy3001 said:
I think by the time you see a 769, the wigan - lostock line will be electrified also the stalybridge to manchester victoria line.
Click to expand...
They're coming....
450 and 442 are now at Allerton for the training plans (mainly fitters and drivers) to be written. The other six have started 'build' with delivery due the end of this year and into early next year.
 
jonesy3001

jonesy3001

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Bovverboy said:
I see that it's timed as a 319 - doesn't that imply that it's running in electric mode? If so, what's new?
Click to expand...

It was running in electric mode and as i stated went past the crewe cams on railcam UK and the first time on the mainline during the day has it's been tested between preston and allerton at night.
 
B

Bovverboy

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But it's been running in electric mode for 30+ years - if it's going to continue to do that, wasn't it a bit pointless fitting diesel engines?
 
M

Mollman

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Bovverboy said:
But it's been running in electric mode for 30+ years - if it's going to continue to do that, wasn't it a bit pointless fitting diesel engines?
Click to expand...

Don't forget it has put on weight since it was a 319 so won't perform the same.
 
T

The Ham

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AMD said:
They're coming....
450 and 442 are now at Allerton for the training plans (mainly fitters and drivers) to be written. The other six have started 'build' with delivery due the end of this year and into early next year.
Click to expand...

It took me a moment to remember which thread I was reading (i.e. not one on SWR) as when I saw the above post as the first unread post upon opening the thread again
 
59CosG95

59CosG95

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Popped this list in the Stored 319s thread, and thought it might be prudent to pop it here too. So, a list of each 319 and its conversion, location, fate etc.
319/0s & 769/0s
  • 319001 - at Long Marston, now HydroFLEX prototype 799001. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319002 - converted to 769002, at Cardiff Canton with TfW. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319003 - to be converted to 769003 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319004 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319005 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319006 - converted to 769006 (for TfW), awaiting delivery from Brush Loughborough/Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319007 - to be converted to 769007 (for TfW), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319008 - converted to 769008, at Cardiff Canton with TfW. Now in TfW livery. PRMed.
  • 319009 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319010 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319011 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319012 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319013 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
319/2s - all PRMed, all in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath.

319/4s, 769/4s & 769/9s
  • 319421 - possibly to be converted to 769421 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319422 - to be converted to 769922 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319423 - to be converted to 769923 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319424 - converted into 769424 (for Northern), currently at Doncaster Works. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319425 - to be converted to 769925 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319426 - to be converted to 769426 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in Northern livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319427 - to be converted to 769927 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319428 - to be converted to 769928 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319429 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319430 - to be converted to 769930 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319431 - converted into 769431 (for Northern), currently at Doncaster Works. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319432 - to be converted to 769932 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319433 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319434 - converted into 769434 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319435 - to be converted to 769935 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319436 - to be converted to 769936 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319437 - to be converted to 769937 (for GWR), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319438 - to be converted to 769938 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319439 - to be converted to 769939 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319440 - to be converted to 769940 (for GWR), currently at Reading for GWR crew training. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319441 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319442 - converted into 769442 (for Northern), currently at Allerton for Northern crew training. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319443 - to be converted to 769943 (for GWR), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319444 - possibly to be converted to 769444 (for TfW), at LORAM Derby (RTC). Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319445 - to be converted to 769945 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319446 - at Wolverton Works after short-term loan to Northern; future unknown. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319447 - to be converted to 769947 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319448 - converted into 769448 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319449 - to be converted to 769949 (for GWR), currently at Reading for GWR crew training. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319450 - converted into 769450 (for Northern), currently at Allerton for Northern crew training. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319451 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319452 - to be converted to 769952 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319453 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319454 - at Long Marston, converted into Porterbrook's "Innovation Hub". Seems unlikely to run again in service. Not PRMed.
  • 319455 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319456 - converted into 769456 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319457 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319458 - converted into 769458 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319459 - to be converted to 769959 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319460 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
319/3s - all in service with Northern (alloxed to Allerton). To be off-leased and replaced by Class 323s by December 2021
  • Note - 319372 (PRMed) and 319373 (Not PRMed) are temporarily on hire to Northern to cover for 769s.
Two units (probably non-PRMed) are due to be converted by Rail Operations Group for its parcels work.
If anyone has any additional info about these units, don't hesitate to reply!
 
Last edited:
J

JN114

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Source on the GWR units being renumbered into 769/9 number sequence? - last we got on the matter was that they were to be 769/4 as per Northern’s sets, and thus far the documentation we have seen on them also says as such.
 
59CosG95

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JN114 said:
Source on the GWR units being renumbered into 769/9 number sequence? - last we got on the matter was that they were to be 769/4 as per Northern’s sets, and thus far the documentation we have seen on them also says as such.
Click to expand...
I heard that, because of their "tri-mode" status (i.e. diesel, 3rd rail, OLE) they'd be distinct from the 769/4s as they already exist (as bi-modes) with Northern.
 
J

JN114

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59CosG95 said:
I heard that, because of their "tri-mode" status (i.e. diesel, 3rd rail, OLE) they'd be distinct from the 769/4s as they already exist (as bi-modes) with Northern.
Click to expand...

No such requirement that I’m aware of - the Northern sets are theoretically DC capable, just have the necessary equipment removed.
 
Cowley

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59CosG95 said:
Popped this list in the Stored 319s thread, and thought it might be prudent to pop it here too. So, a list of each 319 and its conversion, location, fate etc.
319/0s & 769/0s
  • 319001 - at Long Marston, now HydroFLEX prototype 799001. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319002 - converted to 769002, at Cardiff Canton with TfW. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319003 - to be converted to 769003 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319004 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319005 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319006 - to be converted to 769006 (for TfW), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319007 - to be converted to 769007 (for TfW), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319008 - converted to 769008, at Cardiff Canton with TfW. Now in TfW livery. PRMed.
  • 319009 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319010 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319011 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in TL livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319012 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319013 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
319/2s - all PRMed, all in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath.

319/4s, 769/4s & 769/9s
  • 319421 - possibly to be converted to 769421 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319422 - to be converted to 769922 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319423 - to be converted to 769923 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319424 - converted into 769424 (for Northern), currently at Doncaster Works. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319425 - to be converted to 769925 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319426 - to be converted to 769426 (for TfW), at Brush L'boro'. Still in Northern livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319427 - to be converted to 769927 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319428 - to be converted to 769928 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319429 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319430 - to be converted to 769930 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319431 - converted into 769431 (for Northern), currently at Doncaster Works. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319432 - to be converted to 769932 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319433 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319434 - converted into 769434 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319435 - to be converted to 769935 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319436 - to be converted to 769936 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319437 - to be converted to 769937 (for GWR), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319438 - to be converted to 769938 (for GWR), at Long Marston. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319439 - to be converted to 769939 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319440 - to be converted to 769940 (for GWR), currently at Reading for GWR crew training. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319441 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319442 - converted into 769442 (for Northern), currently at Allerton for Northern crew training. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319443 - to be converted to 769943 (for GWR), at Brush L'boro'. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319444 - possibly to be converted to 769444 (for TfW), at LORAM Derby (RTC). Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319445 - to be converted to 769945 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319446 - at Wolverton Works after short-term loan to Northern; future unknown. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319447 - to be converted to 769947 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319448 - converted into 769448 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319449 - to be converted to 769949 (for GWR), currently at Reading for GWR crew training. Still in TL livery. PRMed.
  • 319450 - converted into 769450 (for Northern), currently at Allerton for Northern crew training. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319451 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319452 - to be converted to 769952 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319453 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319454 - at Long Marston, converted into Porterbrook's "Innovation Hub". Seems unlikely to run again in service. Not PRMed.
  • 319455 - at Long Marston, future unknown. Still in FCC livery. Not PRMed.
  • 319456 - converted into 769456 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319457 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
  • 319458 - converted into 769458 (for Northern), currently at Brush L'boro'. In Northern livery. PRMed.
  • 319459 - to be converted to 769959 (for GWR), at Wolverton Works. Still in TL livery AFAIK. PRMed.
  • 319460 - in service with LNWR, alloxed to Northampton Kings Heath. In LM livery. PRMed.
319/3s - all in service with Northern (alloxed to Allerton). To be off-leased and replaced by Class 323s by December 2021
  • Note - 319372 (PRMed) and 319373 (Not PRMed) are temporarily on hire to Northern to cover for 769s.
If anyone has any additional info about these units, don't hesitate to reply!
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that. Very interesting.
 
C

Chris217

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Seen 769442 in the loop outside Allerton on friday .
I passed it whilst on 508128.
It was stabled with its tail lights on at each end
 
Last edited:
J

JN114

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7 by my count, 4 Northern; 3 TfW - various states of acceptance/delivery by their intended operators.
 
P

plugwash

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JN114 said:
No such requirement that I’m aware of - the Northern sets are theoretically DC capable, just have the necessary equipment removed.
Click to expand...
'My understanding was/is that in the original 769 design the diesel generators basically replaced the third rail pickups and the GWR variant adds extra control gear and wiring to support having both third rail and diesel fitted and available.

No idea if that is enough of a difference to justify a seperate subclass though.
 
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