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RealTimeTrains website

U-Bahnfreund

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6 Feb 2015
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Germany
Thanks for those involved for making RTT possible, I wish we had something similar for my country...

Overall, I like the new version just as much as the old and I have just two things for reconsideration:

1) I might misremember, but wasn't there a "+1 hour" and "-1 hour" in simple mode too? Even if not, that's something I'd find useful, and
2) I agree on the post above that the TOC abbreviations should have the full name of the company too, I and probably other people too don't remember (all of) them
 
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spark001uk

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...Personally I think the contrast between the grey italics and bold text is adequate and this literally didn't come up at all with the testing group...
I think the point a couple of users are making is that it was the italics for passing schedules on the old layout (of schedule listings) that made a better contrast, rather than just being grey?

One other thing I'm curious of, in a train View (detailed), I noticed that "WTT" and "RTT" now prefix every time on every station entry, rather than just having headings at the top. Is there a particular reason why this change was adopted?

PS Outstanding work by the way, I have always found your site extremely invaluable, as I'm sure all will agree. Thank you.
 

Tom

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Thanks for those involved for making RTT possible, I wish we had something similar for my country...
;)

1) I might misremember, but wasn't there a "+1 hour" and "-1 hour" in simple mode too? Even if not, that's something I'd find useful
There never has been.
2) I agree on the post above that the TOC abbreviations should have the full name of the company too, I and probably other people too don't remember (all of) them
Working on it.

I think the point a couple of users are making is that it was the italics for passing schedules on the old layout (of schedule listings) that made a better contrast, rather than just being grey?
I think there's crossed wires here, it's very hard to know what people are talking about when there are merely comments that say 'detailed' mode. There are two core pages, which have slightly different behaviour. I think this was with respect to passing points on a detailed train page ... I just looked at the old site and this was literally just a light grey/black contrast. I think you're talking about something else... the detailed location view?

One other thing I'm curious of, in a train View (detailed), I noticed that "WTT" and "RTT" now prefix every time on every station entry, rather than just having headings at the top. Is there a particular reason why this change was adopted?
Primarily to reduce confusion as its not a straight forward table layout.
 

spark001uk

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;)
I think there's crossed wires here, it's very hard to know what people are talking about when there are merely comments that say 'detailed' mode. There are two core pages, which have slightly different behaviour. I think this was with respect to passing points on a detailed train page ... I just looked at the old site and this was literally just a light grey/black contrast. I think you're talking about something else... the detailed location view?...
Yes that's right, the detailed location view. Never really known the correct terminology!
So yes, on detailed location view, passing services being in italics as well as grey were a better contrast I think.
 

Tom

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Yes that's right, the detailed location view. Never really known the correct terminology!
For clarity then, the simple and detailed mode both have location (also known as line-up) pages and train pages.
So yes, on detailed location view, passing services being in italics as well as grey were a better contrast I think.
I'm going to look at making a bit more in italics but not the whole lot. No promises.
 

Dren Ahmeti

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17 Oct 2017
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Bristol
We don't get involved in this, the data we show is what we are given. We do receive information on when the timing load changes however at present only the timing load at the beginning of the schedule is shown. This could change in the future.
Perfect answer, thank you!
 

spark001uk

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For clarity then, the simple and detailed mode both have location (also known as line-up) pages and train pages.
I'm going to look at making a bit more in italics but not the whole lot. No promises.
OK thank you. Yes that's what I meant, just non-stopping services, not the whole lot.
 

Tom

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Behind the scenes we've been working on some alternative layouts for the mobile detailed mode while still standing on the previous feedback we've received. Thoughts on this welcome, the rightmost is the real-time column, to the left is WTT and GBTT would appear depending on screen width.
 

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ABB125

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University of Birmingham
Behind the scenes we've been working on some alternative layouts for the mobile detailed mode while still standing on the previous feedback we've received. Thoughts on this welcome, the rightmost is the real-time column, to the left is WTT and GBTT would appear depending on screen width.
I think I prefer the alternative layout (the one in the picture), it provides a much simpler comparison between planned and actual times.
Personally I would prefer a bit less spacing between the lines of text, but I know that a lot of people prefer more spacing because it can be easier to read, especially if you have poor eyesight; at the end of the day, it's better to have something that pleases the majority.
Thanks once again for the excellent website.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Epsom
Excuse my using a snip rather than a quote for this; I'm in a rush tonight...

I don't think it's the contrast; it's the trying to get one's head around the + and - instead of the xL and xE. The L and E figures were instantly obvious; the +/- requires one to stop and think for a moment.
 

3270

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8 Mar 2015
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150
I don't think it's the contrast; it's the trying to get one's head around the + and - instead of the xL and xE. The L and E figures were instantly obvious; the +/- requires one to stop and think for a moment.
I agree. To my way of thinking -20 means 20 minutes late and +5 means 5 minutes early, which is opposite to how RTT is using + and -.
 

FGW_DID

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I agree. To my way of thinking -20 means 20 minutes late and +5 means 5 minutes early, which is opposite to how RTT is using + and -.

No, because if it’s running late you’re adding (+) time on, if it’s running early you’re taking time off (-)!
 

Tom

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I had this discussion with someone yesterday and can see where everyone is coming from. I won't be changing the way it displays, as it is more in common with our international cousins. I am amused that it appears to be one of the more controversial aspects of the changes though - the difference a single character makes.

Anyway... consider this logic:

The delay is the difference in value between the actual time and the planned time. A subtraction effort between those times will result in a positive value of delay for late running, and a negative value of delay for early running. e.g. booked 2120 actual 2130 ... 2130 - 2120 = +10. If you say the train is 10 minutes late, you add that time to the booked time - you don't subtract it.

Now, a term occasionally used on the railway is 'lost time' and 'gained time' which by the wording is suggestion of a numerical construct. However, this thinking works in the sense of 'the train lost 20 minutes' or 'it gained 10 minutes between X and Y'. It doesn't actually represent the delay at that point, more the delta.

One person emailed me and suggested that the opposing values should be used on the basis that this is what the railway uses. I would tend to agree that some people on the railway do use this but I can't actually find huge evidence of it in more official places. Indeed, I had a flick through TRUST earlier and most if not all of the values there were of a positive nature when referencing increased delay.
 
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tom73

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24 Apr 2018
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211
Does RealTime Trains have an iOS App. Have searched the App Store several times but cannot see anything called RealTime Trains.
 

xotGD

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4 Feb 2017
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Just to throw more confusion into the +/- debate, if a train is running five minutes late, I would say that it is running 'five down'. Down suggests negative.

The only time I refer to plus and minus is with respect to connections. A train running eight down will turn my plus five into a minus three. And I'll miss it! Unless RTT tells me that the connection is also running late, then I've got a chance. One of the many invaluable uses of such a great resource!
 

malc-c

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1 Dec 2017
Messages
990
I appreciate things are always changing, but sometimes the change is not always for the best (older members will remember the coke cola recipe change !)

Comparing the new layout to the old, I always use detailed layout and for me there was more differential between trains passing or stopping at station I've selected. Not sure if the stopping trains were bolder or the passing trains were fainter, but in the new version there is little difference. This also goes for the screen once a movement has been selected

The use of colour showing late running is a nice touch and makes it stand out.

Given that colour has been implemented, it could have been used more to differentiate the realtime departure times. As it is either the font, or the shading of the text makes the screen look more cluttered than the original layout. I don't use the phone app (having a non-supported windows phone with small screen), but the layout must be poor on a mobile device
 

Howardh

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17 May 2011
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I appreciate things are always changing, but sometimes the change is not always for the best (older members will remember the coke cola recipe change !)

Comparing the new layout to the old, I always use detailed layout and for me there was more differential between trains passing or stopping at station I've selected. Not sure if the stopping trains were bolder or the passing trains were fainter, but in the new version there is little difference. This also goes for the screen once a movement has been selected

The use of colour showing late running is a nice touch and makes it stand out.

Given that colour has been implemented, it could have been used more to differentiate the realtime departure times. As it is either the font, or the shading of the text makes the screen look more cluttered than the original layout. I don't use the phone app (having a non-supported windows phone with small screen), but the layout must be poor on a mobile device
I like it - not tried it on a mobile but the interface looks more mobile-friendly.
 

Tom

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Just to throw more confusion into the +/- debate, if a train is running five minutes late, I would say that it is running 'five down'. Down suggests negative.
I also use the terminology 'five down'. However, it is also counter-intuitive for those not familiar with the railways as negative 5 from the planned time would make the service seem early.

Comparing the new layout to the old, I always use detailed layout and for me there was more differential between trains passing or stopping at station I've selected. Not sure if the stopping trains were bolder or the passing trains were fainter, but in the new version there is little difference. This also goes for the screen once a movement has been selected
The grey was made darker to improve accessibility for those less sighted. I have made the locations italic and made the grey slightly lighter. There won't be any further changes.

Given that colour has been implemented, it could have been used more to differentiate the realtime departure times. As it is either the font, or the shading of the text makes the screen look more cluttered than the original layout.
The differentiation has not actually changed. Forecast times remain in grey italics (albeit darker, for the previously mentioned reasons) and actual times in black/blue/red (depending on running) normal bold.
 

Bletchleyite

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Erm...what? It was pulled because of incompatibilities with the operating systems. Nothing to do with the data.

TBH it's just as easy to set up an "app like" link from your browser. The main advantage of apps is the ability to work offline, there is nothing to gain by doing that with RTT.
 

greatkingrat

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The grey was made darker to improve accessibility for those less sighted. I have made the locations italic and made the grey slightly lighter. There won't be any further changes.

That is much clearer now.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I'll be using the sit on mobile tomorrow for the first time since the change; I'll report back my experiences afterwards.
 

Tw99

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Another thanks from me for all the work on RTT, it's an incredibly useful resource.
 

IanXC

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Well, much as I like everything else about the change, and have always felt Real Time Trains was the head and shoulders market leader, the +/- versus E/L issue is a deal breaker for me.

It particularly hurts as I suspect the things coming in future will once again raise the bar in the market.
 

Muzer

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Well, much as I like everything else about the change, and have always felt Real Time Trains was the head and shoulders market leader, the +/- versus E/L issue is a deal breaker for me.

It particularly hurts as I suspect the things coming in future will once again raise the bar in the market.
A deal-breaker?! Oh, give it a rest. When I first started travelling around Europe the +/- notation as used by Deutsche Bahn and others confused me too but it didn't take longer than the first day for me to get used to. Even accounting for the older-people-take-longer-to-learn-things factor (I've no idea how old you are, so apologies if this doesn't apply to you) I shouldn't imagine it would take any longer than a few days to grok. Give it a chance, it might well grow on you.
 

anamyd

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Erm...what? It was pulled because of incompatibilities with the operating systems. Nothing to do with the data.
Just like I read on the FAQ on the website yesterday :)
 

anamyd

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TBH it's just as easy to set up an "app like" link from your browser. The main advantage of apps is the ability to work offline, there is nothing to gain by doing that with RTT.
With modern smartphones that are more powerful than some desktop computers, "apps" are kind of obsolete for most things anyway as the websites are perfectly quick / useable! The apps were useful on late 2000s / early 2010s smartphones where it would've been slow / "clunky" to use the mobile website versions... which is why I hate that a lot of mobile websites nag you to "get the app" (if I wanted the app I'd get it, leave me alone!)
 

IanXC

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A deal-breaker?! Oh, give it a rest. When I first started travelling around Europe the +/- notation as used by Deutsche Bahn and others confused me too but it didn't take longer than the first day for me to get used to. Even accounting for the older-people-take-longer-to-learn-things factor (I've no idea how old you are, so apologies if this doesn't apply to you) I shouldn't imagine it would take any longer than a few days to grok. Give it a chance, it might well grow on you.

Its just entirely inconvenient when every other source I use sticks to E/L.

Even the at times bizarre TRUST sticks with the conventional answer to this question.
 

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