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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

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AndrewE

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Mathew S said:
It would be a huge upgrade, doubling the number of trains passengers from north of Crewe can use to connect to other services at Crewe. This alone would be enough reason for me to fall in love with First Trenitalia if they do it.
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EE Andy b1 said:
/snip/
Would be of great benefit for plenty people with the extra stopper at Crewe all for 3-4 minutes of time.
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I agree that more capacity and more journey options are needed from Crewe northwards, but I suspect that stopping the current Euston-Glasgow fasts is not likely to happen.
When the current timetable was introduced they were severely overcrowded south of Crewe, and in response to protests about the situation Virgin simply withdrew the Crewe calls.
I think doubling the Birmingham to Scotland service frequency would deal with the problem, but suspect that initially the demand would probably be satisfied with trains rather shorter than the current 11- or 10-coach trains. (There probably isn't anything like the level of suppressed demand as exists on TPE trans-Pennine routes.)
Which TOC/Franchise would run them, how they could be pathed and whether they needed to run north of Preston are open to debate. A new hourly service of Birmingham to Blackpool (or Lancaster) EMUs would be a good start...
 
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VT 390

VT 390

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AndrewE said:
I agree that more capacity and more journey options are needed from Crewe northwards, but I suspect that stopping the current Euston-Glasgow fasts is not likely to happen.
When the current timetable was introduced they were severely overcrowded south of Crewe, and in response to protests about the situation Virgin simply withdrew the Crewe calls.
I think doubling the Birmingham to Scotland service frequency would deal with the problem, but suspect that initially the demand would probably be satisfied with trains rather shorter than the current 11- or 10-coach trains. (There probably isn't anything like the level of suppressed demand as exists on TPE trans-Pennine routes.)
Which TOC/Franchise would run them, how they could be pathed and whether they needed to run north of Preston are open to debate. A new hourly service of Birmingham to Blackpool (or Lancaster) EMUs would be a good start...
Click to expand...
If they were overcrowded south of Crewe why not just make the Crewe calls pick up/set down only such as at Watford Junction on this service only?
 
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AndrewE

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VT 390 said:
If they were overcrowded south of Crewe why not just make the Crewe calls pick up/set down only such as at Watford Junction on this service only?
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Bletchleyite said:
That would make some sense.
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I agree too, but that option seems to have been abandoned in the "too difficult" category on the railway we have today (Bolton commuters preventing pax for Scottish destinations getting on trains in Manchester comes to mind most recently.)
 
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Mathew S

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AndrewE said:
I agree that more capacity and more journey options are needed from Crewe northwards, but I suspect that stopping the current Euston-Glasgow fasts is not likely to happen.
When the current timetable was introduced they were severely overcrowded south of Crewe, and in response to protests about the situation Virgin simply withdrew the Crewe calls.
I think doubling the Birmingham to Scotland service frequency would deal with the problem, but suspect that initially the demand would probably be satisfied with trains rather shorter than the current 11- or 10-coach trains. (There probably isn't anything like the level of suppressed demand as exists on TPE trans-Pennine routes.)
Which TOC/Franchise would run them, how they could be pathed and whether they needed to run north of Preston are open to debate. A new hourly service of Birmingham to Blackpool (or Lancaster) EMUs would be a good start...
Click to expand...
To be honest, Birmingham to Preston calling at Wolves, Stafford, Crewe, Warrington and Wigan with 350s would solve the problem. A bolt on to the LNR timetable rather than part of WCP. But someone at DfT seems to be allergic to that idea.
 
LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

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Mathew S said:
To be honest, Birmingham to Preston calling at Wolves, Stafford, Crewe, Warrington and Wigan with 350s would solve the problem. A bolt on to the LNR timetable rather than part of WCP. But someone at DfT seems to be allergic to that idea.
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Arguably, another Birmingham-Crewe is not needed when there are 4 already.
Birmingham-Wolves is congested.
Birmingham-Preston doesn't fit very well with the devolved authorities - neither fish (north) nor fowl (west midlands).
Crewe-Weaver Jn will lose a path with the extra FT Euston-Liverpool (and FT have preferred this rather than Preston).
But it is a gap.
 
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Mathew S

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LNW-GW Joint said:
Arguably, another Birmingham-Crewe is not needed when there are 4 already.
Birmingham-Wolves is congested.
Birmingham-Preston doesn't fit very well with the devolved authorities - neither fish (north) nor fowl (west midlands).
Crewe-Weaver Jn will lose a path with the extra FT Euston-Liverpool (and FT have preferred this rather than Preston).
But it is a gap.
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You're right there's no need for another Birmingham - Crewe but there's a genuine need for another Crewe - Preston via Wigan/Warrington. The paths are there, because they've been heavily used for testing/training over the last few months. All that's needed is to use some of those for passenger services.
 
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Bletchleyite

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AndrewE said:
I agree too, but that option seems to have been abandoned in the "too difficult" category on the railway we have today (Bolton commuters preventing pax for Scottish destinations getting on trains in Manchester comes to mind most recently.)
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It might be difficult to enforce, though Euston barrier checks are now the norm so they could do it. But in practice because so many people now just use planners it wouldn't show up so the numbers abusing it would be low (just as the people abusing the MKC pick up only stops are - you get the odd one, but no more than about 5 per train if that) so it would solve that specific problem.
 
NoMorePacers

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It's slightly bizarre that Watford Junction (and MKC apparently) is listed as a pick up and set down stop only, whereas Stockport isn't.

I find TPE Scotland services doing pick up and set down only at Bolton odd as well but that's rather unrelated.
 
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The Ham

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Bletchleyite said:
It might be difficult to enforce, though Euston barrier checks are now the norm so they could do it. But in practice because so many people now just use planners it wouldn't show up so the numbers abusing it would be low (just as the people abusing the MKC pick up only stops are - you get the odd one, but no more than about 5 per train if that) so it would solve that specific problem.
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Especially given that few people would be using the trains enough to learn that those services call there. Unlike shorter distance services which are more likely to be used by commuters.
 
VT 390

VT 390

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NoMorePacers said:
It's slightly bizarre that Watford Junction (and MKC apparently) is listed as a pick up and set down stop only, whereas Stockport isn't.
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Milton Keynes is only a pick up/set down stop in the peaks (more in the evening) so that there is space for the long distance passengers instead of Milton Keynes commuters filling the trains when they have the London Northwestern alternatives.
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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NoMorePacers said:
It's slightly bizarre that Watford Junction (and MKC apparently) is listed as a pick up and set down stop only, whereas Stockport isn't.
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That Stockport farce is of Network Rail's doing when Virgin Trains went to a VHF timetable with the 3 an hour to/from London Euston they had to take slots of other stopping services apparently so had to Pickup/setdown.
Most time lost between Euston and Piccadilly normally starts once you get to Cheadle Hulme all the way to Picc, rubbish pathing.
 
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Bletchleyite

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EE Andy b1 said:
That Stockport farce is of Network Rail's doing when Virgin Trains went to a VHF timetable with the 3 an hour to/from London Euston they had to take slots of other stopping services apparently so had to Pickup/setdown.
Most time lost between Euston and Piccadilly normally starts once you get to Cheadle Hulme all the way to Picc, rubbish pathing.
Click to expand...

VT also like to flog "VT Only" tickets for this flow. There isn't a major harm in it because quite a lot of people travel Stockport<->Euston anyway, so the extra people just take seats that are then vacant for those boarding at Stockport.
 
toby_farman

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Bletchleyite said:
VT also like to flog "VT Only" tickets for this flow. There isn't a major harm in it because quite a lot of people travel Stockport<->Euston anyway, so the extra people just take seats that are then vacant for those boarding at Stockport.
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Apologies if mentioned before, but what will the final name for the new operator be called...?
 
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The Planner

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EE Andy b1 said:
That Stockport farce is of Network Rail's doing when Virgin Trains went to a VHF timetable with the 3 an hour to/from London Euston they had to take slots of other stopping services apparently so had to Pickup/setdown.
Most time lost between Euston and Piccadilly normally starts once you get to Cheadle Hulme all the way to Picc, rubbish pathing.
Click to expand...
NR delivering the spec required by the DfT you mean? The paths at Picc have suffered due to timetable creep where Northern requirements have skewed it all.
 
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Mathew S

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Jorge Da Silva said:
Is it likely to be the name any sources suggest this?
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First registered the trademark "Avanti" on 27th March this year, and the domain name avantitrains.co.uk was registered on 22nd September. I'd say, taken together, those are a bit of a giveaway.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Mathew S said:
First registered the trademark "Avanti" on 27th March this year, and the domain name avantitrains.co.uk was registered on 22nd September. I'd say, taken together, those are a bit of a giveaway.
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I think the domain is a bigger clue - Virgin haven't registered pendolino.co.uk or voyager.co.uk, and LNER haven't registered azuma.co.uk - while some of us thought it might have been for use in the context of "LMS Avanti service" describing an 80x operated train, the domain seems a giveaway that this is very likely to be the TOC's name.
 
transmanche

transmanche

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Bletchleyite said:
I think the domain is a bigger clue - Virgin haven't registered pendolino.co.uk or voyager.co.uk, and LNER haven't registered azuma.co.uk - while some of us thought it might have been for use in the context of "LMS Avanti service" describing an 80x operated train, the domain seems a giveaway that this is very likely to be the TOC's name.
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Let's not get too ahead of ourselves just yet!

Yes, First Rail Holdings trademarked the Avanti name earlier this year. (Just as the DfT trademarked both LNER and Azuma.) But we don't know exactly who has registered the domain names avantitrains.co.uk and avantitrains.com, although the domain does use the same name servers as the westcoastrail.co.uk holding site. (The registrar for both domains is cscprotectsbrands.com, a company that helps organisations 'protect their brands' online.)

So the balance of probabilities is tipping towards Avanti as the franchise name. But it could still just be the name of their new trains.
 
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