Northern 195 Diagrams

I've decided to create a new thread for 195 diagrams in order to make them more accessible. Please contribute corrections where necessary.

Firstly, Monday to Friday diagrams, and here mikemcniven got us off to a great start (in post #1 of the '195: Initial Diagrams' thread) with the seven original diagrams - these were effective from 1/7/19, although in the early days 195 availability was poor.


One or two early errors were quickly corrected, leaving the above to prove virtually infallible. The only remaining errors I can find are:

Circuit 2: Train reporting number 2X09 should read 2C09 (and we haven't bothered with reporting numbers since, anyway)

Circuit 5: 2143 Manchester Airport - Liverpool should read 2148 Manchester Airport - Liverpool

Note that 'Circuit 7' simply doubles up with 'Circuit 6' for one return trip in the morning, and one in the afternoon

A further five diagrams became 195-operated from 12/8/19. I'll call them Diagrams 8-12. (I've included ECS movements).

Diagram 8
0457 Blackpool North CMD - Lancaster ECS
0559 Lancaster - Windermere
0643 Windermere - Oxenholme
0728 Oxenholme - Windermere
0755 Windermere - Oxenholme
0827 Oxenholme - Windermere
0851 Windermere - Oxenholme
0930 Oxenholme - Windermere
0956 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1229 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1507 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1850 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1855 Barrow - Preston2036 Preston - Newton Heath T&RSMD EC

Diagram 9
0702 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0708 Barrow - Lancaster
0823 Lancaster - Barrow
0934 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1135 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1146 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1429 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1706 Windermere - Oxenholme
1742 Oxenholme - Windermere
1807 Windermere - Oxenholme
1829 Oxenholme - Windermere
1855 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2234 Manchester Airport - Blackpool North (via Bolton)
0029 Blackpool North - Blackpool North CMD ECS

Diagram 10
0449 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0522 Manchester Airport - Barrow
0811 Barrow - Barrow via Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
0846 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1129 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1407 Windermere - Oxenholme1438 Oxenholme - Windermere
1459 Windermere - Oxenholme
1532 Oxenholme - Windermere
1605 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1829 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2117 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS

Diagram 11
0337 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road (Front Unit)
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
1915 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Front Unit)
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Rear Unit)
2224 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0017 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS

Diagram 12
0507 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road (Rear Unit)
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)
1916 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (Rear Unit)
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (Front Unit)

Diagrams 11 and 12 are booked for 195/0s. If two 195/0s are not available then Diagram 11 will usually run with a single 195/0, or a single 195/1, and Diagram 12 will not operate.
At 2224 only the unit operating Diagram 11 departs Liverpool for Manchester Airport, the unit operating Diagram 12 remains in the platform at Lime Street ready to work the next morning's 0337 departure, (i.e. Diagram 11). This arrangement is thought to not apply on Friday nights/Saturday mornings.
(Q: On Friday night, is Diagram 12 scheduled to remain with Diagram 11 and finish at Newton Heath?)
Note that, if the above routine continues uninterrupted, each unit gets back to Newton Heath every other night.

Thanks are obviously due to mikemcniven for getting us off to such a good start. Additional information is mainly from information contained in 'Realtime Trains' and from personal observation, but additional information has been provided by NWR001, 156420, 37078xotTE, and others.

From Monday 21/10/19 the interworked Leeds - Chester and Leeds - Manchester Victoria (via Halifax) services generally became 195-operated. I believe the following diagrams are all booked for a 195, but other types also regularly appear.
I'll call these Diagrams 13-23 but if anyone wants to contribute the 'real' diagram numbers, I will of course include them.
The following diagrams are in order of where the relevant unit appears on the circuit, starting with the 0617 ex-Chester, followed by the 0715 ex-Ellesmere Port, then 0821 ex-Chester, etc.

Diagram 13
0558 Chester (PCL) - Chester ECS*
0617 Chester - Leeds
0918 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1058 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1238 Leeds - Chester
1517 Chester - Leeds
1818 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1958 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
2139 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
2319 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
0053 Leeds - Holbeck Loco Sidings ECS

* This shunt move rarely operates, most days the ex-Leeds unit stables in its arrival platform, usually P5.

Diagram 14
0510 Liverpool Lime Street - Ellesmere Port
0617 Ellesmere Port - Helsby
0634 Helsby - Ellesmere Port
0715 Ellesmere Port - Leeds
1018 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1158 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1338 Leeds - Chester
1614 Chester - Leeds
1919 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
2058 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
Couples to unit working Diagram 17 then does:
2239 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0102 Manchester Victoria - Newton Heath TMD ECS

Diagram 15
0445 Neville Hill TMD - Leeds ECS (Rear unit)
0539 Leeds - Chester
0821 Chester - Leeds
1118 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1258 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1438 Leeds - Chester
1716 Chester - Leeds
1958 Leeds - Holbeck Loco Sidings ECS

Diagram 16
0556 Holbeck Loco Sidings - Leeds ECS (Front unit)
0637 Leeds - Chester
0921 Chester - Leeds
1218 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1358 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1538 Leeds -Ellesmere Port
1823 Ellesmere Port - Manchester Victoria
1931 Manchester Victoria - Newton Heath TMD ECS

Diagram 17
0534 Newton Heath TMD - Manchester Victoria ECS
0545 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
0736 Leeds - Chester
1023 Chester - Leeds
1318 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1458 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1639 Leeds - Chester
1920 Chester - Leeds
Rear unit ex-Chester continues as:
2218 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0031 Manchester Victoria - Newton Heath TMD ECS
Front unit ex-Chester is joined by unit working Diagram 14 to form 2239 to Manchester Victoria.

Diagram 18
0512 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0655 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
0839 Leeds - Chester
1124 Chester - Leeds
1418 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1558 Manchester Victoria -Leeds
1737 Leeds - Chester
2020 Chester - Leeds
2304 Leeds - Neville Hill TMD ECS

Diagram 19
0556 Holbeck Loco Sidings - Leeds ECS (Rear unit)
0617 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0757 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
0938 Leeds - Chester
1224 Chester - Leeds
1518 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1655 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1839 Leeds - Chester
2213 Chester - Manchester Victoria
2322 Manchester Victoria - Newton Heath TMD ECS

Diagram 20
0445 Neville Hill TMD - Leeds (Front unit) ECS
0501 Leeds - Hebden Bridge
0545 Hebden Bridge - Leeds
0719 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0857 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1038 Leeds - Chester
1321 Chester - Leeds
1618 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1758 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1939 Leeds - Chester
2221 Chester - Chester (PCL) ECS*

* This shunt move rarely operates, most days the ex-Leeds unit stables in its arrival platform, usually P5.

Diagram 21
0528 Newton Heath TMD - Manchester Victoria ECS
0622 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
0818 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
0958 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1138 Leeds - Chester
1420 Chester - Leeds
1718 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1858 Manchester Victoria Leeds
2039 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
2258 Manchester Victoria -Leeds

Diagram 22
1907 Newton Heath TMD - Manchester Victoria ECS
1918 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
2100 Leeds - Neville Hill TMD ECS
Note: Diagram 22 may not be a 195 diagram.

Diagram 23



Class 180
0546 Bombardier Crofton Depot - Hebden Bridge ECS
0701 Hebden Bridge - Leeds
0825 Leeds - Bradford Interchange ECS
Then does Grand Central 1022 Bradford Interchange - London Kings Cross.
The 0701 and 0825 journeys are operated by Grand Central on hire to Northern. The 0825 is considered to be operated by Northern, even though it is empty stock. This is thought to be because Leeds to Bradford Interchange is part of a Northern route.

Sprinter or Super Sprinter
Forms from 1928 York - Leeds
2018 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
2158 Manchester Victoria - Leeds (Rear unit)
2329 Leeds - Holbeck Loco Sidings ECS (Front unit)

Sprinter or Super Sprinter
Forms from rear unit off 1824 Southport - Leeds
2118 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
2315 Manchester Victoria - Newton Heath TMD ECS (Rear unit)

Note: The unit which is added at Victoria is the one split from at Leeds.

Now for Saturday diagrams. Here again, mikemcniven has got us off to a good start (in post #116 of the '195: Initial Diagrams' thread) with six of the originals, i.e. those effective from 6/7/19.


A few corrections are required, as follows.
Circuit 1: 1634 Manchester Airport to Barrow should read 1629 Manchester Airport to Barrow
Circuit 2: 1943 Barrow to Manchester Airport should have read 1934 Barrow to Manchester Airport - but see below
Circuit 5: 2143 Manchester Airport to Liverpool should read 2148 Manchester Airport to Liverpool
Circuit 6: 0613 Liverpool to Wilmslow should read 0613 Liverpool to Manchester Airport
Circuit 6: 0748 Wilmslow to Liverpool should read 0750 Manchester Airport to Liverpool
Circuit 6: 2129 Liverpool to Wilmslow should read 2129 Liverpool to Manchester Airport
Circuit 6: 2249 Wilmslow to Liverpool should read 2249 Manchester Airport to Liverpool

Other amendments are necessary by virtue of service changes.
Circuit 1: From 14/9/19 2210 Manchester Airport to Barrow becomes 2210 Manchester Airport to Preston
Circuit 2: The 1934 Barrow to Manchester Airport and 2210 return appear on both Circuit 1 and Circuit 2. It was intended that this journey should run as a double unit throughout - this generally hasn't happened but it has run as a double at least once. Circuit 2 therefore, should presumably now be regarded as finishing after completing the 1530 Manchester Airport - Barrow
Circuit 4: From 14/9/19 2044 Windermere to Oxenholme becomes 2043 Windermere to Lancaster, and all subsequent journeys on the diagram are cancelled. From Lancaster unit operates 2226 Lancaster - Barrow

The new 2210 Manchester Airport to Preston does have a bus connection for Lancaster, but not Barrow, apparently. The cancelled journeys on Circuit 4 all have bus replacements.

A seventh Saturday diagram went 195-operated at a very early date, probably from 6/7/19. This may have been a consequence of a late decision, it may have been realised that because Diagram 6 didn't need to be strengthened (unlike Mondays to Fridays) there would be a 195 available, therefore may as well use it. This additional diagram I'll call Diagram 7.

Diagram 7
0337 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0709 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Oxford Road
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
1016 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1316 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1616 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1915 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2224 Liverpool Lime Street- Manchester Airport
2344 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS

From 7/7/19 all Saturday semi-fast journeys between Manchester Airport and Liverpool Lime Street were scheduled to be 195-operated, but there were three diagrams on the main Barrow/Windermere circuit which were still non-195. These went 195-operated from 17/8/19, I'll call them Diagrams 8-10.

Diagram 8
0457 Blackpool North CMD - Lancaster ECS
0559 Lancaster - Windermere
0643 Windermere - Oxenholme
0728 Oxenholme - Windermere
0755 Windermere - Oxenholme
0827 Oxenholme - Windermere
0851 Windermere - Oxenholme
0920 Oxenholme - Windermere
1008 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1229 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1507 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1850 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1903 Barrow - Preston
2036 Preston - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS

Diagram 9
0702 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0708 Barrow - Lancaster
0823 Lancaster - Barrow
0934 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1135 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1146 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1429 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1706 Windermere - Oxenholme
1736 Oxenholme - Windermere
1801 Windermere - Oxenholme
1829 Oxenholme - Windermere
1855 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2234 Manchester Airport - Blackpool North
0028 Blackpool North - Blackpool North CMD ECS

Diagram 10
0449 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Airport ECS
0522 Manchester Airport - Barrow
0811 Barrow - Barrow via Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
0846 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1129 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1407 Windermere - Oxenholme
1438 Oxenholme - Windermere
1459 Windermere - Oxenholme
1532 Oxenholme - Windermere
1605 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1829 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2117 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS

After the changes of 12-18/8/19 all journeys to/from Windermere were scheduled to be 195-operated, as were all journeys to/from Barrow running south of Lancaster, apart from an afternoon NSu Preston - Carlisle journey. Apart from one return journey (NSu), and one single journey (Su), (listed above), all Carlisle/Barrow - Lancaster journeys (and the Preston-Carlisle) remain 156-operated.

Finally, the Sunday diagrams.

First of all, mikemcniven gave us three of the original diagrams (i.e. those effective from Sunday 7/7/19) in post #116 of the '195: Initial Diagrams' thread.


There are a couple of corrections to make to 'Circuit 1'. The 1851 journey ex-Barrow terminates at Preston, and the 2046 journey starts there. If 'Circuit 1' and 'Circuit 2' are both operating (a big 'if') then the unit operating 'Circuit 2' attaches at Preston to the rear of the unit operating 'Circuit 1'. Any passengers in the rear unit (i.e. those coming from south of Preston) are required to transfer to the front unit and the rear unit is locked out of use for the journey to Barrow.

There was a fourth diagram effective from the same date, or, at least, it was covered by a 195 on that day and has since proved to be just as much a 195 diagram as the other three. This was given by myself in post #197, from information contained in 'Realtime Trains' and personal observation - I've since added ECS movements. I'll call it Diagram 4.

Diagram 4
0832 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
0840 Barrow - Manchester Oxford Road*
1102 Manchester Oxford Road - Manchester Oxford Road via Trafford Park East Junction ECS
1153 Manchester Oxford Road - Windermere*
1358 Windermere - Oxenholme
1423 Oxenholme - Windermere
1449 Windermere - Oxenholme
1535 Oxenholme - Windermere
1606 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1833 Manchester Airport - Barrow
2123 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS

*Prior to 15/9/19 these journeys continued to/started from Manchester Airport (1133 Airport to Windermere)

A further three Barrow/Windermere diagrams went 195-operated from 18/8/19, although one of those was covered by a 156 that day. All Sunday journeys venturing south of Lancaster were then scheduled to be 195-operated. I'll call them Diagrams 5-7.

Diagram 5
0719 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Piccadilly ECS
0736 Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport*
0833 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1055 Windermere - Oxenholme
1118 Oxenholme - Windermere
1140 Windermere - Oxenholme
1201 Oxenholme - Windermere
1223 Windermere - Oxenholme
1247 Oxenholme - Windermere
1308 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1533 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1822 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS

* This journey added 15/9/19

Diagram 6
0739 Allerton Depot - Liverpool Lime Street ECS
0821 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
0935 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1210 Barrow - Barrow Carriage Sidings ECS
1342 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1347 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1633 Manchester Airport - Barrow
1947 Barrow - Manchester Airport
2239 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
or
2251 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0012 Liverpool Lime Street - Allerton Depot ECS
(The above will probably vary week to week)

Diagram 7
1129 Barrow Carriage Sidings - Barrow ECS
1137 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1433 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1709 Windermere - Oxenholme
1739 Oxenholme - Windermere
1800 Windermere - Oxenholme
1830 Oxenholme - Windermere
1901 Windermere - Manchester Airport
2125 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS

When 195s were introduced to the North West they were not initially used on Liverpool to Manchester Airport diagrams on Sundays. The first diagram to go 195-operated did so with effect from 18/8/19. Actually, whether it constitutes one diagram or two is arguable, since I am assured that it is scheduled for a double 195/0 which is planned to split at one point (thereby making it two diagrams), however by virtue of the fact that the diagram has not yet been actually operated by a double 195/0 (a single 195/0 may have operated it, I'm not sure about that) I'll consider it a single diagram for now, and call it Diagram 8.

Diagram 8
0934 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Oxford Road ECS
1018 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
1116 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Oxford Road*
1217 Manchester Oxford Road - Manchester Oxford Road via Trafford Park East Junction ECS
1313 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street*
1416 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1716 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1851 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2016 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2151 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
Should then do 0337 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport (Monday to Friday Diagram 11)

* Prior to 15/9/19 these journeys continued to/started from Manchester Airport (1248 Airport to Liverpool)

The remaining diagrams on Liverpool - Manchester Airport have subsequently gone over to 195 operation, probably from 15/9/19. I'll call them Diagrams 9 & 10.

Diagram 9
0752 Newton Heath T&RSMD - Manchester Oxford Road ECS
0817 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool Lime Street
0916 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1050 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1216 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1351 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1516 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1651 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1816 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1950 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2119 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2239 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS
or
2251 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
0012 Liverpool Lime Street - Allerton Depot ECS
(The above will probably vary week to week)

Diagram 10
0945 Allerton Depot - Liverpool Lime Street ECS
1016 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1151 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1316 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1451 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1614 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
1751 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
1916 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2051 Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street
2216 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport
2344 Manchester Airport - Newton Heath T&RSMD ECS

Deleted.

These are the current diagrams ready for the launch on Monday...

Diagram One:

· 1D70 0539 Leeds – Chester

· 1E54 0821 Chester – Leeds

· 1D76 1138 Leeds – Chester

· 1E66 1420 Chester – Leeds

· 2M24 1718 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E37 1858 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1H31 2039 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E35 2258 Man Vic – Leeds

Diagram Two:

· 2E01 0545 Man Vic – Leeds (2 + 3)

· 1D72 0736 Leeds – Chester

· 1E58 1023 Chester – Leeds

· 2M16 1318 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E19 1458 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1D74 1639 Leeds – Chester

· 1E76 1920 Chester – Leeds

· 1H35 2239 Leeds – Man Vic

Diagram Three:

· 1E50 0617 Chester – Leeds

· 2M08 0918 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E11 1058 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1D77 1238 Leeds – Chester

· 1E68 1517 Chester – Leeds

· 2M26 1818 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E39 1958 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1H33 2139 Leeds – Man Vic

· 1E34 2319 Man Vic – Leeds

Diagram Four:

· 2M00 0521 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E03 0655 Man Vic – Leeds

I shall be adding in D5/D6 soon...

Jack Brown said:

These are the current diagrams ready for the launch on Monday...

Diagram One:

· 1D70 0539 Leeds – Chester

· 1E54 0821 Chester – Leeds

· 1D76 1138 Leeds – Chester

· 1E66 1420 Chester – Leeds

· 2M24 1718 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E37 1858 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1H31 2039 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E35 2258 Man Vic – Leeds

Diagram Two:

· 2E01 0545 Man Vic – Leeds (2 + 3)

· 1D72 0736 Leeds – Chester

· 1E58 1023 Chester – Leeds

· 2M16 1318 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E19 1458 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1D74 1639 Leeds – Chester

· 1E76 1920 Chester – Leeds

· 1H35 2239 Leeds – Man Vic

Diagram Three:

· 1E50 0617 Chester – Leeds

· 2M08 0918 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E11 1058 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1D77 1238 Leeds – Chester

· 1E68 1517 Chester – Leeds

· 2M26 1818 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E39 1958 Man Vic – Leeds

· 1H33 2139 Leeds – Man Vic

· 1E34 2319 Man Vic – Leeds

Diagram Four:

· 2M00 0521 Leeds – Man Vic

· 2E03 0655 Man Vic – Leeds

I shall be adding in D5/D6 soon...

Click to expand...

Brilliant, Very well done and much appreciated.

Looking forward to the finished article

Terry Williams said:

Brilliant, Very well done and much appreciated.

Looking forward to the finished article

Click to expand...

I was truly surprised to see any 195 doing Leeds to Victoria and not exclusive to Leeds to Chester which is there new big route.

Jack Brown said:

These are the current diagrams ready for the launch on Monday...

Click to expand...

That seems to have saved me quite a bit of work come Monday!

Could I ask, do you think, is there any official basis to the duty numbers you've quoted, or have you done as myself and mikemcniven have done and created your own designations?

I'd already drafted presumed diagrams, but wasn't going to put anything into type until I saw what was happening in practice.
There are a couple of minor discrepancies between what I've got and what you've put above.
Diagram 1: I've got the 0821 Chester - Leeds being followed by the 1118 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
Diagram 2: I've got the 1920 Chester - Leeds being followed by the 2218 Leeds - Manchester Victoria

The above is what is implied by following platform continuity on Realtime Trains, but I appreciate that things can be easily altered on the day.

Diagram 4: I've got 0512 Leeds - Manchester Victoria rather than 0521, in this instance I'm inclined to presume that 0512 is correct.·

I shall be adding in D5/D6 soon...

Click to expand...

Is that intended to imply that there are going to be only six 195 diagrams? We've had different reports about this in recent days, some posters have said that all Leeds - Chester are going 195, some have said that only some are. What that may mean, of course, is that when the Chesters and Man Vics come to be separated, the six 195 diagrams will then be a sufficient number to work all the Chesters.

I've had my friend check the diagrams at his depot and I've worked from them. I think there is only 6 diagrams anyway for LDS - MCV/CTR?

And I've got a travel pass for Monday thanks to my friend so I hope my 3am alarm for the 0545 ex MCV is worth it! #5Car

Jack Brown said:

I think there is only 6 diagrams anyway for LDS - MCV/CTR?

Click to expand...

There are currently nine diagrams which do a Chester, and it's been consistently reported that the diagrams are going to remain as they are until the December timetable change, when the Chesters and the Man Vics are going to be split. After that, six diagrams will be sufficient to cover all the Chesters.
The current circuit is Leeds - Chester - Leeds - Man Vic - Leeds, which takes nine hours (= nine diagrams).

Yes my mistake on that part too! I thought there were 10 diagrams! The 2 car 195 does a Man Vic-Leeds (as part of a 5 car) then stays at Holbeck depot most of the day before going to York and finishing at Blackpool.

The diagram numbers are officially 13 onwards and 54 for the 2 car.

All 9 diagrams won't be 195s... Its between 4 and 6.

They’re booked to be in Genius and the LTP diagrams. Of course, it could be another “phased introduction” like the 331’s.

156420 said:

They’re booked to be in Genius and the LTP diagrams. Of course, it could be another “phased introduction” like the 331’s.

Click to expand...

I've been told by a DTM that they won't all be 195s on Monday....

Sounds like another phased introduction then!

2F20 0510 ex LIV - WBQ on Monday should be a 195... Forms 5E50 to CTR which then the driver diagrams show that 1E50 0617 ex CTR - LDS is a 195...

Looks like there’s a fair few STP diagrams/dockets next week then.

So looks like 05:10 ex-Liverpool is 2 195’s, which split at Warrington BQ for 5E50/2T20.

As 1E50 will start at Chester usually with a 195 that has stabled overnight. But obviously there’s nothing there this weekend or anyone to move it there in time for Monday!

156420 said:

So looks like 05:10 ex-Liverpool is 2 195’s, which split at Warrington BQ for 5E50/2T20.

As 1E50 will start at Chester usually with a 195 that has stabled overnight. But obviously there’s nothing there this weekend or anyone to move it there in time for Monday!

Click to expand...

Now tell me if I've got this right or wrong, won't you, folks. What would have normally been 2F20 0510 Liverpool LS to Ellesmere Port is, tomorrow 21/10/19, going to be formed of a double 195 which will be amended to 2F20 0510 Liverpool LS to Warrington Bank Quay, which will then split at Bank Quay into 5E50 to Chester ECS (front unit) and 2T20 to Ellesmere Port (rear unit). So far, so good.
The rear unit can't continue as 2F20, not because of the six-minute drop-back (in order to provide time for the uncoupling procedure), but because any through passengers will need to change units. Those from the Liverpool direction will travel in the front unit to Bank Quay (as per normal practice) but will then need to transfer to what had been, up to that point, the locked-out rear unit, in order to continue towards Ellesmere Port.
The above procedure being reminiscent of what, until very recently (at least), happened at Preston on Sunday nights with the 1933 Manchester Airport - Barrow. (I say 'until very recently (at least)' since that is not how it is now showing on RTT, so I don't know for sure what's happening now).
If it were the front unit which continued to Ellesmere Port, I presume it could continue as 2F20.
An irony of the foregoing is the fact that if the front unit continued to Ellesmere Port it would get there in time to do the usual 0617 Ellesmere Port - Helsby, but the latter has, in the event, had to be dropped back by five minutes, which nibbles at the connection at Helsby with the TfW Llandudno train. Even had 5F50 been formed from the rear unit, it would still get to Chester in time to do the 0617 Leeds.

Here's the Leeds-Chester diagrams that I have worked out... tweaked slightly as some later Leeds-Victoria's appear to have turned up!

Chances are not all of these will be 195's on Monday or maybe even through the first week as we don't know how many 195's are actually available for service above what is already being used on the Barrow side.

195107/110/112/121/123 are down to be out tomorrow on the Calder Valley....

Subject to changes

Jack Brown said:

195107/110/112/121/123 are down to be out tomorrow on the Calder Valley....

Subject to changes

Click to expand...

There's the famous 195121 again, which was a fully-blown member of the active West side fleet, until it managed to get 'nicked' for East side training duties!

Jack Brown said:

195107/110/112/121/123 are down to be out tomorrow on the Calder Valley....

Subject to changes

Click to expand...

Are they all booked for Leeds starts?

Bovverboy said:

Are they all booked for Leeds starts?

Click to expand...

No. 195103 is at Leeds ready for tomorrow morning.

195123 1D70 0539 ex LDS - Chester
195111 0545 ex MCV - LDS
195103 0512 ex LDS - MCV
195110 0617 ex LDS - MCV
195121 0545 ex Hedben Bridge - LDS
195119 0622 ex MCV - LDS
195002+195007 0510 ex LIV - Els Port.

I'll doubke check I've typed it up correctly when I get on 195111

Jack Brown said:

195123 1D70 0539 ex LDS - Chester
195111 0545 ex MCV - LDS
195103 0512 ex LDS - MCV
195110 0617 ex LDS - MCV
195121 0545 ex Hedben Bridge - LDS, of course, that 195111
195119 0622 ex MCV - LDS
195002+195007 0510 ex LIV - Els Port.

I'll doubke check I've typed it up correctly when I get on 195111

Click to expand...

To which, I presume you could have added, 'provided, of course, that 195111 arrives from Newton Heath on time'. Trust Northern to upset everyone's plans.

I presume 195002 & 195007 will split at Warrington Bank Quay, as per post #18, above.

I see that your later list of units does differ from the earlier one, but I don't doubt the accuracy of the update.
As far as I know, for instance, 195002 and 195007 finished at Lime Street last night (ex-Airport semi-fasts), although, as is often the case, according to RTT there isn't platform continuity. 195119 would have finished at Newton Heath (ex-Windermere).

EDIT: The units doing 0510 ex-Liverpool have indeed split at WBQ as planned, but uncoupling wasn't as slick as expected. Arrival was at c.0543, only a minute or so behind schedule, but the front unit didn't set off for Chester until 0556, and the rear unit for Ellesmere Port until 0557. I'm assuming that both drivers would be on board from Liverpool, but I may be wrong about that.

EDIT 2: The ex-Chester departed at 0628, 11L, and has continued at that sort of lateness.
The ex-Ellesmere Port departed at 0635, 13L compared to the amended time (i.e. that for today), and 17L compared to the normal time of 0618. This resulted in an arrival at Helsby of 0648, comfortably missing the connection with the Llandudno train which left RT at 0638. Still managed to connect with the TfW for Piccadilly, though, if only just.

So out of the 3-car units, does this now just leave 101, 105, 106, 107, 108, 112, 113, 126-133 as yet to enter public service?

Units 104 and 109 both on the Man Airport to Liverpool route today.

Philip said:

So out of the 3-car units, does this now just leave 101, 105, 106, 107, 108, 112, 113, 126-133 as yet to enter public service?

Units 104 and 109 both on the Man Airport to Liverpool route today.

Click to expand...

109 has been in service for a few days, at least, but 104 is definitely new in service. Isn't it the one named 'Deva Victrix'?

Other 195 starts.
0512 Leeds - Victoria 6/7L
0539 Leeds - Chester 2L
0545 Hebden Bridge - Leeds 7/8L
0545 Victoria - Leeds 7/8L
0617 Leeds - Victoria 2L
0622 Victoria - Leeds 4L

So with the 0617 ex-Chester and 0715 ex-Ellesmere Port, I make that at least eight Chester-circuit diagrams 195-formed (out of nine). The only one unaccounted for, by my reckoning, is 0637 Leeds - Chester (0921 ex-Chester).

A quick trip out to Halifax this morning, '002 on the 1018 MCV from Leeds, and immediately '119 back. Seems to have been a good turnout on the Calder V, (and even at least one 331 on the Leeds NW triangle!