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LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

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47271

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Whereas First are just too uncomfortable
Funnily enough, when I was say there yesterday with the water bottles flying off my table, I did for the first time think that I was starting to get used to First Class seat. I still wouldn't waste money on one on GWR, but it's just about worth it with LNER's service. Not being trapped in a sea of grey also helps on LNER.
 

adrian_hon

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Sadly, I’ve travelled down to London dozens of times on First Class on the old trains and stuff has always flown off my table (on the solo seats). I was dearly hoping the Azusa would fix this p, but apparently not.
 

3973EXL

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18/11

801211 hauled to Eastleigh
5Q99 Doncaster - Acton
5X99 Acton - Eastleigh
 

92002

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Sadly, I’ve travelled down to London dozens of times on First Class on the old trains and stuff has always flown off my table (on the solo seats). I was dearly hoping the Azusa would fix this p, but apparently not.
Have just spent the last 3 Hours on an Azuma and not suffered any numb bum syndrome yet. No things flying off tables if you use the table mat or a napkin it stays there perfectly. The suspension Could use a bit of tuning though. It's quite lively and rocky in places, but this could be down to poor track quality.

Seats are a personal preference and are no worse than any modern train with high density foam seats
 

Failed Unit

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Seats are a personal preference and are no worse than any modern train with high density foam seats

interesting comment. It is almost a sad acceptance that things are getting worse. (But that seems to apply to air as well as rail.) coaches are upping their game.

saying that done a few 2 hour journey on the Azuma. No issues compared to the uncomfortable 700s (not the seat but the duct is the problem here)

to me the biggest problem with the Azuma when they take over London - Edinburgh is lack of space for bags. On a London - Leeds in a Sunday bags were in the vestibule. This wasn’t a packed train. I think more seats need to be removed. (Some only look at plastic anyway at the coach ends). But they will not be viewed well in August unless they can improve this. Seats will always split opinions.
 

92002

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Have now survived the best part of 5 hours on the Azuma And am not any worse for it.

The days of floppy big fat seats are long gone. They are not fire retardant and can't now be used.

As well as racks for large cases in each coach's some of the coaches have locked space as a back up. Instead of a bicycle storage With plenty room above and below seats to store items. So can't understand your comments at all.

interesting comment. It is almost a sad acceptance that things are getting worse. (But that seems to apply to air as well as rail.) coaches are upping their game.

saying that done a few 2 hour journey on the Azuma. No issues compared to the uncomfortable 700s (not the seat but the duct is the problem here)

to me the biggest problem with the Azuma when they take over London - Edinburgh is lack of space for bags. On a London - Leeds in a Sunday bags were in the vestibule. This wasn’t a packed train. I think more seats need to be removed. (Some only look at plastic anyway at the coach ends). But they will not be viewed well in August unless they can improve this. Seats will always split opinions.
 

Failed Unit

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Have now survived the best part of 5 hours on the Azuma And am not any worse for it.

The days of floppy big fat seats are long gone. They are not fire retardant and can't now be used.

As well as racks for large cases in each coach's some of the coaches have locked space as a back up. Instead of a bicycle storage With plenty room above and below seats to store items. So can't understand your comments at all.
The fire retardant comment is nonsense. It is penny pinching why modern seats are not comfortable.

but I can only go on my experience about lack of space for baggage. They seem worse than HST / Mk4 which had the DVT / power cars to store the largest bags. We will see who is right and if it is a problem when they are fully in charge and taking London - Edinburgh trains in peak times. But certainly not impressed with what I have seen so far. You shouldn’t need to wait for people to move bags away from the doors when you get on a train (as I did a Stevenage last week)

some other posters on this thread say LNER see it as a problem as the are discussing solutions with dft
 

JonathanH

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coaches are upping their game

Really? Give examples of how? I contest that coach seats are getting more comfortable.

Are you referring to this?

Theatre-style-seating-is-on-a-level-floor.jpg


https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/game-changer/

Looks like a fairly thin seat base, a fairly thin seat back and a covering that is a matter of personal taste and might be considered oppressive.

I personally prefer the interior of an Azuma to this.
 
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92002

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The fire retardant comment is nonsense. It is penny pinching why modern seats are not comfortable.

but I can only go on my experience about lack of space for baggage. They seem worse than HST / Mk4 which had the DVT / power cars to store the largest bags. We will see who is right and if it is a problem when they are fully in charge and taking London - Edinburgh trains in peak times. But certainly not impressed with what I have seen so far. You shouldn’t need to wait for people to move bags away from the doors when you get on a train (as I did a Stevenage last week)

some other posters on this thread say LNER see it as a problem as the are discussing solutions with dft

Maybe the DfT bit is partly correct. The seats are specified and designed for TSI compliance.

My train today was quoted as fully booked and there was adequate storage for all
If your not happy try going by Ryanair. The seats surprisingly are just the same.
 

Failed Unit

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Maybe the DfT bit is partly correct. The seats are specified and designed for TSI compliance.

My train today was quoted as fully booked and there was adequate storage for all
If your not happy try going by Ryanair. The seats surprisingly are just the same.

if you re-read my post I didn’t say I was unhappy with the seats. I said they were not as comfortable as the trains they replace. Big difference. Seats are subjective but even on the 700 as I said the seat isn’t the problem it is the duct that is.

I did say that I am not happy with storage. London - Edinburgh services in the summer attract a lot of people with a lot of baggage. More so than the Leeds route. We will see how the Azuma’s cope.
 

92002

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if you re-read my post I didn’t say I was unhappy with the seats. I said they were not as comfortable as the trains they replace. Big difference.

I did say that I am not happy with storage. London - Edinburgh services in the summer attract a lot of people with a lot of baggage. More so than the Leeds route. We will see how the Azuma’s cope.

Mk4s are more than 30 years old and were buit to a different specification. HSTs are even older.

Welcome to the millennium.
 

Failed Unit

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Mk4s are more than 30 years old and were buit to a different specification. HSTs are even older.

Welcome to the millennium.

do either of these have their original seats?

So you think to move forwards standards of comfort must fall? As Ryanair set low standards we must fight to reduce them? Is this really what we should strive for? I know rail won’t care unless they lose market share but it is a very sad viewpoint that we shouldn’t be looking to constantly improve the product.

for info we have being here before. In the 1980s when the mk3s replaces the mk1s it was the same discussion. The original mk4 seats were controversial and GNER replaced them with something better. Maybe LNER will as in the 90s we had a push to improve comfort and seats on trains such as the 156 were replaced.

I personally don’t think the seats will stop people using rail. Not having space to store your bags will however. Yes some people take too much. But I suspect they are using rail knowing the need to pay a lot to fly with that much. If they are pushed away from rail they will be on the M6. As I said come August we will really see if the Azuma’s offer a better environment than what they replace. Will leave it there to avoid hijacking the thread.
 
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92002

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do either of these have their original seats?

So you think to move forwards standards of comfort must fall? As Ryanair set low standards we must fight to reduce them? Is this really what we should strive for? I know rail won’t care unless they lose market share but it is a very sad viewpoint that we shouldn’t be looking to constantly improve the product.

for info we have being here before. In the 1980s when the mk3s replaces the mk1s it was the same discussion. The original mk4 seats were controversial and GNER replaced them with something better. Maybe LNER will as in the 90s we had a push to improve comfort and seats on trains such as the 156 were replaced.

I personally don’t think the seats will stop people using rail. Not having space to store your bags will however. Yes some people take too much. But I suspect they are using rail knowing the need to pay a lot to fly with that much. If they are pushed away from rail they will be on the M6. As I said come August we will really see if the Azuma’s offer a better environment than what they replace. Will leave it there to avoid hijacking the thread.
Each passenger on a train has a luggage limit, just like an airline. I have seen passengers being excessed for carrying too much.
 

johnnychips

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They do accelerate like sh*t off a shovel. There is a thing called ‘confirmation bias’ which means if somebody tells you something often enough you’ll believe it, but even with possibly negative expectations I can confirm that the seats are very hard and giving me backache by Peterborough. Legroom is amazing.
 

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They do accelerate like sh*t off a shovel. There is a thing called ‘confirmation bias’ which means if somebody tells you something often enough you’ll believe it, but even with possibly negative expectations I can confirm that the seats are very hard and giving me backache by Peterborough. Legroom is amazing.

I was on a 2*5 car unit out of Shipley to Leeds this morning, and the acceleration out of Shipley was noticeable even under diesel power (not sure why on diesel though). I'm on another one this Wednesday to London, so I'll see how the seating pans out for me.
 

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Looks like 800203-800206 are the four 800/2s in use today - 800205 and 800204 worked the 0640 Bradford Forster Square to London Kings Cross. 800205 is working the 1006 London Kings Cross to Lincoln (and will work the 1606), 800204 will work the 1206 London Kings Cross to Lincoln. Then 800203 is reported elsewhere working the 1118 Lincoln to London Kings Cross and 800206 is reported working empty to Bound Green to later pick up the 1803 London Kings Cross to Skipton with 800204.
 

ainsworth74

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That's enough seat chat. If anyone wants to talk about it more take it to a new thread. We don't need to rehash peoples feelings on the seats every week.
 

GrimShady

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How about the shockingly bad ride all the way down the ECML?

The noise off the traction motors/dynamic breaking?

Awful lighting akin to an operating theatre?
It's actually so bad that it blocks out the window view even during daylight

Daft leg's on tables?

Upwards curvature on the desk making the side of it useless?

Complete lack off luggage space?
 

Harbon 1

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How about the shockingly bad ride all the way down the ECML?

Can't say its much worse than I remember the Mk4s being on occasion. They can really chuck you around.

The noise off the traction motors/dynamic breaking?

Can't say I've heard that, but is a bit of noise much worse than the stench of brake blocks on a HST?

Awful lighting akin to an operating theatre?
It's actually so bad that it blocks out the window view even during daylight

That's a ridiculous comment and you know it.

Daft leg's on tables?

All the tables I've sat at seem alright, though the First Class single tables look questionable, much the same as Class 222 tables.

Upwards curvature on the desk making the side of it useless?

As far as I'm aware most stock has a lip on the table

Complete lack off luggage space?

That's the only genuine issue you've raised in this whole post.

My only complaints is the A/C seems a bit warm throughout the whole train, and a passcom pulled in the toilet brought the train to a stand (whether it was intentional or not I don't know, but the final mile into Newark seemed an odd place to throw the lot in if it was the drivers choice).

I'm a massive fan of the Mk4 sets, but they're knackered. The HSTs, they're knackered, just look at the cab fronts. The fact is they've got more stock in 800/801s on order, than they've got in legacy stock. They're a smart, functional train that I think could be a worthy replacement to the current stock. Yes the DfT should have let the TOCs specify their interior, but I can see this being sorted sooner or later.

Apart from the s*ats, the interiors seem pretty robust in my experience.
 
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J-2739

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The Azumas can't be that bad. I mean, they accelerate like no other! And, as time goes, they should be more reliable than the rickey 225s.
 

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Looks like 800203-800206 are the four 800/2s in use today - 800205 and 800204 worked the 0640 Bradford Forster Square to London Kings Cross. 800205 is working the 1006 London Kings Cross to Lincoln (and will work the 1606), 800204 will work the 1206 London Kings Cross to Lincoln. Then 800203 is reported elsewhere working the 1118 Lincoln to London Kings Cross and 800206 is reported working empty to Bound Green to later pick up the 1803 London Kings Cross to Skipton with 800204.

A slight correction to that, they (205/204) formed the 06:30 from Bradford Forster Square (I picked it up as the 06:37 from Shipley). Interestingly though the unit stopped at the 80x stop board even though it was a 10 car unit, meaning a fair bit of confusion for passengers further up the platform expecting a 91 / MKIV set (for reference, the 80x stop board is a little further down platform 3W than the signals, and the 91s stop slightly beyond the signal meaning the whole of P3 is used for them).

And to make things worse as we approached Leeds the Train Manager announced that due to issues with the water filter systems, there would be no catering for the journey south, even advising that passengers wanting onboard services to pick up the 07:15 out of Leeds (this service forms the 07:00).
 

Failed Unit

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I see 1606 London - Lincoln is shown as operating in reverse formation. Surprised that happened so quickly. I wonder if they will turn it on the way back from Lincoln - Doncaster on the boutham triangle.
 

GrimShady

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Can't say its much worse than I remember the Mk4s being on occasion. They can really chuck you around.

I can assure you it is worse. All the way from Glasgow to London

Can't say I've heard that, but is a bit of noise much worse than the stench of brake blocks on a HST?

Agin yes, it's exactly the same as being on a 385

That's a ridiculous comment and you know it.

Really is it? Are you denying what is plain to see?

All the tables I've sat at seem alright, though the First Class single tables look questionable, much the same as Class 222 tables.

Appearances can be deceiving.

As far as I'm aware most stock has a lip on the table

This isn't a lip, this is an upwards curve on the bulkhead side of the table which means a good inch and a half is unusable for anything. This should have been on the inboard side and would have helped stop stuff flying off with the rubbish ride quality.

That's the only genuine issue you've raised in this whole post.

They're all genuine! If your content with 385 quality IC stock then we both have very, very different ideas on what IC quality is. A 385 is tolerable for 42 mins, London to Inverness on a 385 masquerading as an IC train is not.

I'm a massive fan of the Mk4 sets, but they're knackered.

Agreed but still seem to have life elsewhere on the network? Can't be that knackered.
 
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JonathanH

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I see 1606 London - Lincoln is shown as operating in reverse formation. Surprised that happened so quickly. I wonder if they will turn it on the way back from Lincoln - Doncaster on the boutham triangle.

800205 - was in reverse formation on 1006 as well (obviously). 800204 (with which it formed the early train from Bradford Forster Square was correctly formed).
 
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