Which train has the worst first class?

Prestige15 · 23 Oct 2019

To make it fair lets not include Class 387's first class which are to many eyes, standard class with some napkins stucked on.

I'm going for 800, In my opinion, rapid, spacious and quiet but fail to hide the fact is a rather disappointing 1st class and a set back compared to IC225/GWR HST for example both of wich ive traveled on, I have recently been on one (GWR) and was only a short trip from bridgend to bristol parkway and i have to say is sitting on a pile of thumbtacks would be more comfortable, Never been on LNER's 800s but i do expect to be similar.

RailUK Forums

class387 · 23 Oct 2019

350/1s and 350/3s have the same layout in First and Standard but with comfortable Grammer seats in Standard and less comfortable Electrostar seats in First.

Hadders · 23 Oct 2019

The 387s on Great Northern or Gatwick Express. Exactly the same seats as in standard.

yorkie · 23 Oct 2019

See also: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/is-first-class-too-expensive-and-should-it-be-abolished.193978/

NSEFAN · 23 Oct 2019

Hadders said:
The 387s on Great Northern or Gatwick Express. Exactly the same seats as in standard.

Arguably the same for 377s and 375s on Southern and South Eastern. For TOCs which are essentially commuter / local services, they'd be better off scrapping first class, similar to what Chiltern did.

Terry Tait · 23 Oct 2019

317, 1st class declassified between Liverpool Street and Hertford East so often dirty, rubbish left all over the place and broken seats.

4REP · 23 Oct 2019

I'm going for class the Southeastern fleets class375-377 as its only tiny and no door provided between first and standard, Followed by the IET fleets.

XCTurbostar · 23 Oct 2019

Definitely GTR 377s and 387s

4REP · 23 Oct 2019

Bring back Rep's TC's Bep's Cig's and Cep's - they all had compartments.

bastien · 23 Oct 2019

4REP said:
Bring back Rep's TC's Bep's Cig's and Cep's - they all had compartments.

That reminds me - the 442s had smart compartments, next to a rubbish bit of 2+2 that started off as standard then got re-classified to first. Bit of a cheek if you ask me!

superalbs · 23 Oct 2019

Definitely that of the Class 800 and derivatives. What a disaster! Doesn't feel like first class in ambience, or comfort.

It's far too bright, in fact I have never seen a train that is brighter than in an 800 - what a delightful environment to relax in lol. (And I thought the original FGW HST refurbs were bad). On the GWR variants, the colour scheme is also less inspiring than third class on USSR era trains...poor! Admittedly it's better on all of the other ones, thankfully.

The comfort is just disappointing too, even if it is a step up from the unusable seats in second class. Realistically the first class seat offering should have been used in second class, as is the case in Germany, Austria, Spain, and Uzbekistan.

Always a disappointment on an 800 in first class, but I feel I don't have much choice because the second class is so repulsive!

JonathanH · 23 Oct 2019

NSEFAN said:
Arguably the same for 377s and 375s on Southern and South Eastern. For TOCs which are essentially commuter / local services, they'd be better off scrapping first class, similar to what Chiltern did.

That was the original intention of Connex when it specified the original units.

I think the plan was to specify a level of accommodation reasonable for first class throughout the train then mark out a space of key peak trains in one carriage of twelve which would be for first class ticket holders rather than having an area in each unit. This was quickly deemed impractical.

Bletchleyite · 23 Oct 2019

class387 said:
350/1s and 350/3s have the same layout in First and Standard but with comfortable Grammer seats in Standard and less comfortable Electrostar seats in First.

Yes, I'd vote for this. In classes 350/1 and 350/3, First Class is less comfortable than Standard priority seats. There is less legroom and the seats themselves are less comfortable. Even if for some reason I had a First Class ticket I would sit in Standard.

Doomotron · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Yes, I'd vote for this. In classes 350/1 and 350/3, First Class is less comfortable than Standard priority seats. There is less legroom and the seats themselves are less comfortable. Even if for some reason I had a First Class ticket I would sit in Standard.

Ditto on Class 375/6, /7 and /3.

JonathanH · 23 Oct 2019

Doomotron said:
Ditto on Class 375/6, /7 and /3.

Not since they moved it to the intermediate coach - where first class is now on a 375/6, 7 and 3 is the best space on the train.

NoMorePacers · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Yes, I'd vote for this. In classes 350/1 and 350/3, First Class is less comfortable than Standard priority seats. There is less legroom and the seats themselves are less comfortable. Even if for some reason I had a First Class ticket I would sit in Standard.

At least you're getting the TPE units with actual proper seats, unless Abellio strip them out for the same ones as the /1s and /3s though...

TT-ONR-NRN · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Yes, I'd vote for this. In classes 350/1 and 350/3, First Class is less comfortable than Standard priority seats. There is less legroom and the seats themselves are less comfortable. Even if for some reason I had a First Class ticket I would sit in Standard.

You’ve made the same point here multiple times across many different threads but please remember that it is not fact that first class is less comfortable. It’s an opinion of yours. Certainly I find first more comfortable because of the recline, window curtains and the compartment. I wouldn’t say it was that bad of a first class; it’s certainly better than that on the refurbised 444s

NewSt · 23 Oct 2019

NoMorePacers said:
At least you're getting the TPE units with actual proper seats, unless Abellio strip them out for the same ones as the /1s and /3s though...

From what I've heard, they'll be installed with a 2+2 seating layout in first class during their refurbishment before entering service.

Bletchleyite · 23 Oct 2019

NewSt said:
From what I've heard, they'll be installed with a 2+2 seating layout in first class during their refurbishment before entering service.

They just don't get it, do they?

Ironic that the best First Class on LNR is to mostly be found on Tring stoppers - the 319s have a nice 2+2 layout.

cjmillsnun · 23 Oct 2019

NSEFAN said:
Arguably the same for 377s and 375s on Southern and South Eastern. For TOCs which are essentially commuter / local services, they'd be better off scrapping first class, similar to what Chiltern did.

387s have ironing boards though.

NewSt · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
They just don't get it, do they?

No, they certainly don't!

Bletchleyite said:
Ironic that the best First Class on LNR is to mostly be found on Tring stoppers - the 319s have a nice 2+2 layout.

Yes, It's ridiculous that any TOC would believe that it's acceptable to have better first class on short distance services than their long distance services, some of which take up to 4 hours to complete.

Merle Haggard · 23 Oct 2019

Travelling from Victorisato East Grinstead (for a Bluebell steam gala) a couple of years ago,

I encountered this

voyagerdude220 · 23 Oct 2019

I think First Class on class 170s is rather poor. I'm thinking about Cross Country and Scotrail operated ones I've been on occasionally (usually with "+connections" tickets where I haven't paid extra for First Class just on the 170 section of the journey). Having said that, around 5-10 years ago I seem to remember travelling on a 170 from Edinburgh to Glasgow in First with completely different type of seats which were much more comfortable than usual. Maybe ex Hull Trains?

Bletchleyite · 23 Oct 2019

Merle Haggard said:
I encountered this

Well worth it for an antimacassar and a sticker with a 1 on it!

hexagon789 · 23 Oct 2019

voyagerdude220 said:
I think First Class on class 170s is rather poor. I'm thinking about Cross Country and Scotrail operated ones I've been on occasionally (usually with "+connections" tickets where I haven't paid extra for First Class just on the 170 section of the journey). Having said that, around 5-10 years ago I seem to remember travelling on a 170 from Edinburgh to Glasgow in First with completely different type of seats which were much more comfortable than usual. Maybe ex Hull Trains?

The original Midland Mainline was probably the worst of all 170 First Classes, 2+2 - at least all others were 2+1.

May well have been the ex-HT 170/3s. They ran with the centre section declassified at first, then reseated to standard and eventually the forward first class was also removed. It was a slightly lower density than normal ScotRail First, 7 seats in the leading section against the usual 9.

voyagerdude220 · 23 Oct 2019

hexagon789 said:
The original Midland Mainline was probably the worst of all 170 First Classes, 2+2 - at least all others were 2+1.

May well have been the ex-HT 170/3s. They ran with the centre section declassified at first, then reseated to standard and eventually the forward first class was also removed. It was a slightly lower density than normal ScotRail First, 7 seats in the leading section against the usual 9.

It sounds about right if it was indeed a 170/3. I think the seats had a different type of material on them, compared with the usual Scotrail 170s, possibly leather? I can't remember precisely what the seats were like, I just remember them being much more comfortable than usual and possibly a bit bigger as well.

hexagon789 · 23 Oct 2019

voyagerdude220 said:
It sounds about right if it was indeed a 170/3. I think the seats had a different type of material on them, compared with the usual Scotrail 170s, possibly leather? I can't remember precisely what the seats were like, I just remember them being much more comfortable than usual and possibly a bit bigger as well.

I think the Hull Trains may have had better seats as well. They were the same as the Anglia Railways 3-car and the first class fitted to the additional centre cars Midland Mainline ordered to lengthen 10 of its 170s.

The original ScotRail Express units have a different seat design to the ones later fitted with first class that were originally Standard only suburbans which complicates matters. I'm not sure if the original design is the same as the Anglia/Hull Trains/Midland Mainline or not.

hexagon789 · 23 Oct 2019

Prestige15 said:
To make it fair lets not include Class 387's first class which are to many eyes, standard class with some napkins stucked on.

I'm going for 800, In my opinion, rapid, spacious and quiet but fail to hide the fact is a rather disappointing 1st class and a set back compared to IC225/GWR HST for example both of wich ive traveled on, I have recently been on one (GWR) and was only a short trip from bridgend to bristol parkway and i have to say is sitting on a pile of thumbtacks would be more comfortable, Never been on LNER's 800s but i do expect to be similar.

Does this have to be GB/UK-specific or can I nominate something from over the Irish Sea?

voyagerdude220 · 23 Oct 2019

hexagon789 said:
I think the Hull Trains may have had better seats as well. They were the same as the Anglia Railways 3-car and the first class fitted to the additional centre cars Midland Mainline ordered to lengthen 10 of its 170s.

The original ScotRail Express units have a different seat design to the ones later fitted with first class that were originally Standard only suburbans which complicates matters. I'm not sure if the original design is the same as the Anglia/Hull Trains/Midland Mainline or not.

That's interesting, thank you.

NewSt · 24 Oct 2019

Deleted - sent the same message multiple times.

NewSt · 24 Oct 2019

Deleted - sent the same message multiple times.

Which train has the worst first class?

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