Trivia: Longest train that a single TOC could run by coupling together compatible multiple-units

py_megapixel · 23 Oct 2019

For this question I am assuming that platform lengths are not a restriction, as there is no good public source of information about them and I'm more interested in the compatibility of rolling stock.

It doesn't count as an answer if:

Multiple working is only supported for shorter trains than you have suggested on that class
The class doesn't allow multiple working at all
It would require the use of stock from on lease to multiple TOCs, or which is in storage or scrapped.

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Bletchleyite · 23 Oct 2019

It is possible to couple 2 x 11-car Pendolinos together, though it's obviously never done in service as no platforms are long enough. I suspect that probably wins.

15 car Voyagers has been done in passenger service (so 15 x about 23m) - that probably wins the longest that people have travelled on unless the Caledonian Sleeper is longer.

Roast Veg · 23 Oct 2019

Although for pacers there are cab limitations, in theory you can couple as many BSI units together as you like. I suspect the only limiting factor is electrical resistances for signals, and couldn't possibly tell you when that might occur.

AMD · 23 Oct 2019

In the world of pacers, sprinters and the like; theoretically it would probably be 18 car = 6x3 car 158 units.
Officially the maximum train length for these types of vehicle is defined by 12 cabs - anymore driving cabs in the formation and the train signals become too degraded.
In practise the longest i'm aware of happened in October 1990 with 6x2 car 158s in one formation, a picture can be found on page 34 of 'The Regional Railways Story' book by Gordon Pettitt.

tomwills98 · 23 Oct 2019

I suppose when TfW gets all of the 153's they could run them all together?

Bletchleyite · 23 Oct 2019

tomwills98 said:
I suppose when TfW gets all of the 153's they could run them all together?

Because the limits are on the number of cabs, you'd get a longer train by using 3-car 158s. But a 22-coach Pendolino formation is possible and longer than that.

ComUtoR · 23 Oct 2019

Do all motors have to be working ?

Esker-pades · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It is possible to couple 2 x 11-car Pendolinos together, though it's obviously never done in service as no platforms are long enough. I suspect that probably wins.

15 car Voyagers has been done in passenger service (so 15 x about 23m) - that probably wins the longest that people have travelled on unless the Caledonian Sleeper is longer.

15x23 = 345m
(12x23) + (4x20) = 356m

Not entirely sure if my CS formation is correct (12 Mk3s, 4 Mk2s), but that makes the Sleeper longer.

zn1 · 23 Oct 2019

there was a south sleeper job in to euston many many moons ago that had a Mk2 DVT + passenger + sleeper rake 87 loco and 2-3 motorail GUVS at country end, a rare run and it didn't run like this very often..I would say these jobs e were the longest service jobs until Motorail was stopped on the scotland sleeper jobs.

Ianno87 · 23 Oct 2019

Can 2 x 400m Eurostar sets work in multiple for rescue purposes?

SHD · 23 Oct 2019

py_megapixel said:
For this question I am assuming that platform lengths are not a restriction, as there is no good public source of information about them and I'm more interested in the compatibility of rolling stock.

It doesn't count as an answer if:

Multiple working is only supported for shorter trains than you have suggested on that class

The class doesn't allow multiple working at all

It would require the use of stock from on lease to multiple TOCs, or which is in storage or scrapped.

Since you did not specify that the multiple working has to be permitted in normal revenue service...

It is technically possible to form a MU of Class 373s, but it is only permitted for rescue operations.

edit: Ianno asked the question while I was typing the answer!

rebmcr · 23 Oct 2019

FelixtheCat said:
15x23 = 345m
(12x23) + (4x20) = 356m

Not entirely sure if my CS formation is correct (12 Mk3s, 4 Mk2s), but that makes the Sleeper longer.

However this thread is about Multiple Units — otherwise I would already have suggested stringing together a pair of power cars either end of every Mk3 rake in the biggest HST fleet!

Esker-pades · 23 Oct 2019

rebmcr said:
However this thread is about Multiple Units — otherwise I would already have suggested stringing together a pair of power cars either end of every Mk3 rake in the biggest HST fleet!

I am aware. I was simply answering a question posed by another member.

agourdie · 23 Oct 2019

Would two 12 car Class 700s on Thameslink work out longer than a double Pendelino?

stj · 23 Oct 2019

zn1 said:
there was a south sleeper job in to euston many many moons ago that had a Mk2 DVT + passenger + sleeper rake 87 loco and 2-3 motorail GUVS at country end, a rare run and it didn't run like this very often..I would say these jobs e were the longest service jobs until Motorail was stopped on the scotland sleeper jobs.

Yes I remember seeing this one.

driver_m · 23 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It is possible to couple 2 x 11-car Pendolinos together, though it's obviously never done in service as no platforms are long enough. I suspect that probably wins.

15 car Voyagers has been done in passenger service (so 15 x about 23m) - that probably wins the longest that people have travelled on unless the Caledonian Sleeper is longer.

It has only happened as a test. In practice it can’t happen either as they’re not allowed to electrically couple.

longest train I’ve known about is an 18 car Merseyrail.

greyman42 · 23 Oct 2019

I seem to remember occasions when 16 car EMUs ran out of London Victoria. Apparently it has a platform long enough to accommodate it?

Snow1964 · 23 Oct 2019

Longest I have ever seen is a 24 car (2 x12 car) where front set was being rescued back in 1980s

From memory it was a 4TC + 4TC + 4REP double where one train had run over some dead animal in New Forest and ripped all the shoes off on on side of the REP unit. As it was at least mile to nearest road and not possible to transfer passengers, after pushing item off the conductor next train was sent to couple up. It then continued onto Bournemouth where there is a double length platform and the 33/1s could take the leading TC units on

southern442 · 24 Oct 2019

agourdie said:
Would two 12 car Class 700s on Thameslink work out longer than a double Pendelino?

A 24-car 700 would be longer than an 18-car pendolino but not a 22-car pendolino.

aleggatta · 24 Oct 2019

southern442 said:
A 24-car 700 would be longer than an 18-car pendolino but not a 22-car pendolino.

Am I right in thinking that it is possible to have a 36 car 700? (the reasoning for a 36 car head shunt at Three Bridges?) not sure if it's ever been formed up though...

Trivia: Longest train that a single TOC could run by coupling together compatible multiple-units

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