Tribute to the Leyland Tiger and Volvo B10M

Hello. I've been dying to start a Volvo B10M thread in particular so I thought I'd include the Leyland Tiger as this was still being produced alongside the B10M.

Any comments can include the bodywork on the Leyland Tiger and B10M chassis rather than just the type itself.

My first trip on a Volvo B10M that I can remember was on a Tappins Coaches Mark 3 Plaxton Paramount 3500 on a school trip down to the seaside from Fitzwaryn School for the day (probably Bournemouth or somewhere like that). I wasn't use to a long coach trip never mind a coach trip put it that way.

My first trip on a Leyland Tiger has to have been roughly 1999/2000 - in fact I remember going on 2 (I'm 26) from Fitzwaryn down to the seaside for the day (1 each year). These had the Plaxton Paramount bodies that featured metal bars and smooth dark wood interior. Lovely coaches too. I'm not sure if it was a 3200 or 3500. I remember 1 coach was plain white.

My first trip on a Volvo B10M bus was a 31 on a Sunday from Wantage roughly to the Mably Way roundabout or the stop before it, Autotype (some sort of servicing area). Stagecoach Oxford Alexander PS Euro 2 Voith example it was.

I'll say a bit more later on but the only B10M's that I've been on that were close to a breakdown were a Tappins Coaches Mark 3 Plaxton Paramount 3500 on a St. Gregory's School service (long story short - I was at that school from September to December in 2004) where the doors wouldn't open but did eventually - this was in like December 2004. The driver took it back to the depot (it meant my first visit to the Tappins Coaches depot ). The replacement coach was a Van Hool Alizee - I've a feeling it was roughly an L / K-reg model.

The other B10M Northern Counties Paladin-bodied example was a Stagecoach Oxford one on a 31 from Wantage (Autotype), 15:45ish back to the Vineyard in Abingdon in probably September / October 2005. I think the driver was reporting on the radio that the engine temperature was I think 90 degrees - hotter than it should have been. I then recall her saying something like it would be swapped for a Brookesbus in Oxford.

Apart from those 2, no breakdowns on a single B10M. My last trip on one was an "A"-registered preserved Van Hool Alizee at the Spring Gathering at Brooklands Bus Museum in Weybridge. The "A" indicates the registration being one of those with 3 letters and 4 numbers. The air-conditioning worked - amazing for what was a 32-year-old coach!I

Never driven a Tiger but the B10M buses we had were fantastic machines, reliable and due to being lighter than a coach absolutely flew.

B10M Alexander PS ZF gearbox - Fantastic service bus.

Never been a great fan of coaches with service bus bodies but this was the exception. Step entrance yes, but nice shallow steps and lower than any other mid engined service bus.

Stagecoach had a few of these at Stonehaven depot in the early 2000's with semi coach seats, numbers 591-7, M registration though I can't remember the 3 letters of the registration.

593 was the pick of the bunch and could surprise car drivers with its pace both from a standing start as well as on the dual carriageway. 597 was the dog, seeming to be sedate through the gears in contrast and sounding like it was attempting to hoover up itself in the process.

Reliable too, I only ever had one breakdown which was due to the gear selection connector/rod on top of the gearbox becoming detached. B7 Plaxtons regularly overheated in contrast.

The Voith examples IMO weren't a patch of the ZFs but still far superior from a drivers point of view to the MAN 18.220s which eventually replaced them.

PG said:

B10M Alexander PS ZF gearbox - Fantastic service bus.

Never been a great fan of coaches with service bus bodies but this was the exception. Step entrance yes, but nice shallow steps and lower than any other mid engined service bus.

Stagecoach had a few of these at Stonehaven depot in the early 2000's with semi coach seats, numbers 591-7, M registration though I can't remember the 3 letters of the registration.

593 was the pick of the bunch and could surprise car drivers with its pace both from a standing start as well as on the dual carriageway. 597 was the dog, seeming to be sedate through the gears in contrast and sounding like it was attempting to hoover up itself in the process.

Reliable too, I only ever had one breakdown which was due to the gear selection connector/rod on top of the gearbox becoming detached. B7 Plaxtons regularly overheated in contrast.

The Voith examples IMO weren't a patch of the ZFs but still far superior from a drivers point of view to the MAN 18.220s which eventually replaced them.

Click to expand...

The ones up north were M-OSO. Perth had a couple of them before they went to Stagecoach Glasgow.

Perth seemed to like them anyway, they had from new K-LTS (571-578) with ZF gearboxes, but then got offcasts from various UK depots.

Duplicate.

Duplicate.

Duplicate.

SYT/MainlinE operated a substantial fleet and they continued under FirstBus, very nippy as said. In c.2000, they were replaced on my local route with low floor Darts which could not keep to the timetable! Latterly they were confined to secondary routes, but would be used to fill in for breakdowns etc. A little noisy at full chat in the middle although quiet on the rear bench seats!

There's probably enough of my Tiger wibble on this forum already - I've had a few favourites over the years, and I still miss the sound of a TL11 being driven hard. I was never that keen on the Gardner engined ones, and never had the chance to try out one that was L10-fitted.
A couple that we had locally were A116/7ESA; the P-type bodywork often offends, but I liked its angular looks and these things could fairly shift. All time favourite was probably KSL41X, which was originally obtained for the Aberdeen FC contract. 6-speed ZF and it went like the clappers.

My first B10M experience was with one of the D-MVR batch that Stagecoach acquired from Shearings. It was chalk and cheese, to be honest - the B10Ms could actually do hills compared with the various Tigers that they displaced, and they were the mainstay of the Aberdeen - Inverness route until the introduction of the Interurbans a year or two later. The PS-type examples were fine on local duties, but I had one with the higher-backed "dual purpose" seats on a longer journey one day, and they really weren't suitable. They were good machines nonetheless.

The Jonckheere-bodied B10Ms that Park's used on Citylink routes were nice coaches too, and were probably among the last lot I remember to have "proper" transmissions.

GaryMcEwan said:

Duplicate.

Click to expand...

Must have been a busy service to require 3 duplicates

Looking back the Tiger was a decent enough machine which was definitely an improvement over its predecessor, the Leopard.

Worst Tiger I had the (dis)pleasure of driving was undoubtedly Strathtay 416 which had an East Lancs EL2000 rebody. Good performance but the steering felt like it had concrete blocks added - heavy to the point where you sometimes needed to bring the bus to a halt to avoid hitting something as you struggled to heave it round!! I recall a mechanic mentioned it as a design fault with the power steering ram - never had that problem on any other Tiger.

However Leyland had been caught (cat)-napping by the superior Volvo B10M, which blew the Tiger out of the water.

I've also been on around a handful of B10M City bus double-deckers in the South West - firstly in around 2004/2005 then like 4 altogether in 2009 and 2010.

In my view they were the best vehicles I rode on up there. They had purple leather coach seats and good engines for the hill climbing - far better than the one of the A-VAF Leyland Olympians (751 or 754) which did the hills at nearly traffic pace.

I remember me, Mum and some others catching a Volvo Citybus from Plymouth (Bretonside Bus Station) in July 2005 (Wednesday 27th I'm certain) to Paignton Zoo roughly in the morning. X80 or X81 this was.

Coming back I couldn't believe it when we had a little Mercedes-Benz Vario / Plaxton Beaver 2 instead of a double-decker. Even Mum was surprised at the size of the bus! Wasn't that crowded.

The only problem with the Alexander RV-bodied Citybuses was that there was mostly always a damp flannel smell.I

The Plymouth City bus examples I remember very well between 2003/2004 - June 2006, even seeing a big line up of them when passing the Plymouth Citybus depot at Milehouse. Handy for when there was a breakdown - it would be a Volvo B10M to the rescue!

Mitchell Hurd said:

I've also been on around a handful of B10M City bus double-deckers in the South West - firstly in around 2004/2005 then like 4 altogether in 2009 and 2010.

In my view they were the best vehicles I rode on up there. They had purple leather coach seats and good engines for the hill climbing - far better than the one of the A-VAF Leyland Olympians (751 or 754) which did the hills at nearly traffic pace.

I remember me, Mum and some others catching a Volvo Citybus from Plymouth (Bretonside Bus Station) in July 2005 (Wednesday 27th I'm certain) to Paignton Zoo roughly in the morning. X80 or X81 this was.

Coming back I couldn't believe it when we had a little Mercedes-Benz Vario / Plaxton Beaver 2 instead of a double-decker. Even Mum was surprised at the size of the bus! Wasn't that crowded.

The only problem with the Alexander RV-bodied Citybuses was that there was mostly always a damp flannel smell.I

The Plymouth City bus examples I remember very well between 2003/2004 - June 2006, even seeing a big line up of them when passing the Plymouth Citybus depot at Milehouse. Handy for when there was a breakdown - it would be a Volvo B10M to the rescue!

Click to expand...

The B10M deckers would have been E215-217BTA that were new to Western National and were common on the Plymouth to Torbay route. The damp smell was a common issue with Alexander bodies of that era, and not confined to Volvo chassis. They had a spell with Badgerline, who also had 12 similar examples of which some lasted until just a few years ago as open toppers in Cornwall. PCB's were mainly ex Trent mahcines.

The performance of Leyland Tigers was dependant on a number of factors such as the engine type and rating, and the gearbox. ZF gearboxes were the choice of most private coach firms whilst the NBC and municipals* tended to go for the Leyland pneumocyclic box IIRC. Not a bad motorway cruiser but my local firm bought a lot of secondhand Tigers for interurban routes. (*excludes Northern Ireland - not familiar with those ones)

I'm not surprised that the ZF-bodied Tigers were the choice - I believe most had Cummins L10 engines which I'm aware were rated up to 290bhp, a bit faster than a B10M I'd have thought.

Fuel economy was First Class on the L10-powered Tigers according to a website I looked at.

When I was a lad in Tenby, my local bus and coach company, Silcox always used Bristols and Leopards, with a couple of new coaches most years. 1982 brought in the Tiger and I can remember the excitement (to a young bus enthusiast, at least) of their X reg vehicles, including a pair of these impressive Plaxtons. Not my photo, but appears to be public.

They got a couple more Tigers with early Plaxton Paramount bodies in 1983, then moved away from Leyland to Daf.

Bus wise, their Tigers came in the form of a job lot of ex MOD Plaxton Derwents (and a few others) which were never the most glamorous of vehicles.

Interesting to note that back in the 1990's the specialist magazines claimed that Stagecoach only standardised on the B10M for bus work because Volvo couldn't hit delivery schedules on orders for the B6. Allegedly there were "production difficulties" at the Scottish assembly plant.

TheGrandWazoo said:

The performance of Leyland Tigers was dependant on a number of factors such as the engine type and rating, and the gearbox. ZF gearboxes were the choice of most private coach firms whilst the NBC and municipals* tended to go for the Leyland pneumocyclic box IIRC. Not a bad motorway cruiser but my local firm bought a lot of secondhand Tigers for interurban routes. (*excludes Northern Ireland - not familiar with those ones)

Click to expand...

As far as I remember, the TL11 was usually rated at either 218 or 245bhp, with the addition of the 260 later on. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall there was a de-rated option (175?) offered for service bus applications. The 245 and 260 variants required the hydracyclic box as opposed to pneumocyclic, and of course the ZF manual was an alternative. I've no idea what the engine outputs were for the Gardner lumps.

Mitchell Hurd said:

I'm not surprised that the ZF-bodied Tigers were the choice - I believe most had Cummins L10 engines which I'm aware were rated up to 290bhp, a bit faster than a B10M I'd have thought.

Fuel economy was First Class on the L10-powered Tigers according to a website I looked at.

Click to expand...

I don't think you mean to say "ZF-bodied" If I understand correctly, the ZF transmission referred to by TheGrandWazoo was the 6-speed manual. Most independent coach operators at the time would have specified manual transmissions.

While the ZF auto was certainly offered as an option, it was later in the Tiger's production lifespan, as was the option of the Cummins L10.

PG said:

Worst Tiger I had the (dis)pleasure of driving was undoubtedly Strathtay 416 which had an East Lancs EL2000 rebody. Good performance but the steering felt like it had concrete blocks added - heavy to the point where you sometimes needed to bring the bus to a halt to avoid hitting something as you struggled to heave it round!! I recall a mechanic mentioned it as a design fault with the power steering ram - never had that problem on any other Tiger.

Click to expand...

I understand that 416 was formerly VSS4X, in which case I'd understand if it was slightly knackered; being hammered up and down the road to London for years is going to take its toll. Out of that batch of 6 vehicles, we had VSS3X allocated locally and it certainly wasn't known for its sparkling performance!

GusB said:

As far as I remember, the TL11 was usually rated at either 218 or 245bhp, with the addition of the 260 later on. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall there was a de-rated option (175?) offered for service bus applications. The 245 and 260 variants required the hydracyclic box as opposed to pneumocyclic, and of course the ZF manual was an alternative. I've no idea what the engine outputs were for the Gardner lumps.


I don't think you mean to say "ZF-bodied" If I understand correctly, the ZF transmission referred to by TheGrandWazoo was the 6-speed manual. Most independent coach operators at the time would have specified manual transmissions.

While the ZF auto was certainly offered as an option, it was later in the Tiger's production lifespan, as was the option of the Cummins L10.


I understand that 416 was formerly VSS4X, in which case I'd understand if it was slightly knackered; being hammered up and down the road to London for years is going to take its toll. Out of that batch of 6 vehicles, we had VSS3X allocated locally and it certainly wasn't known for its sparkling performance!

Click to expand...

Sounds about right.

GusB said:

As far as I remember, the TL11 was usually rated at either 218 or 245bhp, with the addition of the 260 later on. Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall there was a de-rated option (175?) offered for service bus applications. The 245 and 260 variants required the hydracyclic box as opposed to pneumocyclic, and of course the ZF manual was an alternative. I've no idea what the engine outputs were for the Gardner lumps.


I don't think you mean to say "ZF-bodied" If I understand correctly, the ZF transmission referred to by TheGrandWazoo was the 6-speed manual. Most independent coach operators at the time would have specified manual transmissions.

While the ZF auto was certainly offered as an option, it was later in the Tiger's production lifespan, as was the option of the Cummins L10.


I understand that 416 was formerly VSS4X, in which case I'd understand if it was slightly knackered; being hammered up and down the road to London for years is going to take its toll. Out of that batch of 6 vehicles, we had VSS3X allocated locally and it certainly wasn't known for its sparkling performance!

Click to expand...

I don't know how that's happened - must have been the predictive thing on my Kindle. I meant ZF-boxed Tigers !

GusB said:

Most independent coach operators at the time would have specified manual transmissions.

Click to expand...

The Silcox coaches I mentioned earlier had the little gearstick, like the Nationals but on a raised pod on the driver's left. The ex MOD buses were fully manual.

back in Yorkshire rider days i use to travel on plaxton bodied leyland tigers numbers 1606/7/10/13/14/15/16/17/19/24/25/26 these where all coaches 1613 to 19 where in Gold Rider livery and very comfy aswell

I owned a Volvo b10m M759 lax (Alexander ps) which I sold a couple of years ago. Good bus to drive

When coming back from St. Gregory's school in Oxfordshire during September - December 2004, I remember we had a Mark 2 Plaxton Paramount 3200-bodied B10M (same lengths as the very early Paramount, 53 seaters I think). These felt more roomier than the newest batch of 50-seat Paramounts from the F / G-plates.

I don't know why but I felt that the later Paramounts ever so slightly felt rocky - unless it's a coincidence in that the driver perhaps went round corners say 2mph quicker.

In Abingdon after Sunday 7pm Mass around like 8pm in around June 2007, I remember one of the N-reg B10M / Van Hool Alizee (that model if it was a personalised registration), Tappins Coaches, pulling up outside the church on Radley Road incase it was needed.

Then not long after Mum and I got home, one of the 50-seat Paramounts went by heading down the Vineyard.

I bet if the B10M's stayed it would mean an easy job for mechanics if something went wrong.

Mitchell Hurd said:

I bet if the B10M's stayed it would mean an easy job for mechanics if something went wrong.

Click to expand...

Would rather work on a B10 any day compared to the new stuff. No laptop required either!

Rather than edit my last post, June 2007 was when it was flooded in parts of Oxfordshire - it was flooded on Ock Street in Abingdon which was the reason for Tappins, out of the kindness of their hearts, sent the B10M coach (although I guess someone at church, Parish priest or someone who works there, may have rung Tappins). I remember the Stagecoach Oxford service 31's terminating in Abingdon that evening rather than run to and from Wantage.