• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

GWR Dec 19 timetable

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,488
And once again I never said I was bothered one way or another about all trains being faster services.
The faster times you point out could equally be achieved by HST`s. Nothing to do with faster trains which I admitted the 802`s are on acceleration. As for old timetables via Bristol that is irrelevant.
I was expecting a decent Royal Duchy and Cornish Riviera service which we don`t have anymore. Those reductions you mention are simply just GWR moving goalposts.

The limited stop nature of the Cornish Riviera and other West of England named trains has long been a function of passenger loadings rather than a desire to operate a super fast train between London and Cornwall. If the Up train is predicted to be full after Exeter then there is no point in calling at Tiverton, Taunton, etc. as it will just result in an overcrowded train. The larger capacity of the new trains means that the regular hourly fast Plymouth’s have sufficient capacity for the more popular intermediate calls (Ie Taunton, Tiverton, Newton Abbot and Totnes.) You may find in 10 years, if trains are much busier, that the key leisure trains become limited stop again. Again, this will be a simple function of supply vs demand.

Also - the choice of which train to name is generally made by a Marketing dept who will be looking for a journey time they can headline. This is why names generally disappear with new timetables, although interestingly GWR are (I believe) continuing to market the traditional names, as part of the brand.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,231
And once again I never said I was bothered one way or another about all trains being faster services.
The faster times you point out could equally be achieved by HST`s. Nothing to do with faster trains which I admitted the 802`s are on acceleration. As for old timetables via Bristol that is irrelevant.
I was expecting a decent Royal Duchy and Cornish Riviera service which we don`t have anymore. Those reductions you mention are simply just GWR moving goalposts.

So a lot of posts later, we discover that your rant was actually all about the odd train, that you favour using, running at light speed - and who cares how long the other trains take.

Whereas GWR has instead opted to give everyone using its services between London and Cornwall a pretty standard journey time, instead of the current random selection of timings, with anything up to 45 minutes' difference between the fastest and slowest.

To expand on Wilts Wanderer's point, most of GWR's named trains on other routes have run at bog-standard timings matching the other trains on the same routes for a long time now - the Cathedrals Express is actually slower between London and Hereford than the preceding services both ways. Some of them may be getting a Reading call taken out in a couple of months' time, but that's about as exciting as they get. We no longer live in age when there are a handful of express trains a day on each route that the railway wants to make a lot of fuss about.
 

Master29

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
1,970
So a lot of posts later, we discover that your rant was actually all about the odd train, that you favour using, running at light speed - and who cares how long the other trains take.

Whereas GWR has instead opted to give everyone using its services between London and Cornwall a pretty standard journey time, instead of the current random selection of timings, with anything up to 45 minutes' difference between the fastest and slowest.

To expand on Wilts Wanderer's point, most of GWR's named trains on other routes have run at bog-standard timings matching the other trains on the same routes for a long time now - the Cathedrals Express is actually slower between London and Hereford than the preceding services both ways. Some of them may be getting a Reading call taken out in a couple of months' time, but that's about as exciting as they get. We no longer live in age when there are a handful of express trains a day on each route that the railway wants to make a lot of fuss about.

I`m not talking halcyon days stuff here. This is the current timetable I`m talking about. A couple of 3.45 hour/minute daily wouldn`t have changed things much surely in the scheme of things, and yes, I willingly accept slower trains which has always been the way. It`s personal choice on two well used services. I take your point however this not on this occasion being solely about the W of E. Doesn`t mean I have to agree with this though.

I never bought into the "Bullet Trains in Cornwall" truck that was touted and this is where GWR and various other agencies need to stand up admit just a bit of a con trick. Whilst you and others correctly point out there was never going to be massive speed increases Mr Average Dave Joseph was never really going to be sold "it`s all about averages across the network" was he? Might be why tripadvisor and their like are swarming in anti GWR posts (some which aren`t their fault either).
You and I can believe what we will.
 

CharlesR

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2019
Messages
236
Looking as so plans to run services from London to South Wales 3tph off peak as well as peak from May.
 

Attachments

  • 84DCE362-370A-481E-8BD8-9E85BEE34C97.jpeg
    84DCE362-370A-481E-8BD8-9E85BEE34C97.jpeg
    96.9 KB · Views: 112

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,422
Looking as so plans to run services from London to South Wales 3tph off peak as well as peak from May.
Seems unlikely. Isn’t the third peak only South Wales train path going to be used for a Bristol Temple Meads fast train in the offpeak?
 

II

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2016
Messages
276
First I've heard about it. Crossed wires amongst the Twitter team? Or will one of the two planned additional off-peak Superfasts to Bristol now go to South Wales instead? A spoiler to ruin the chances of an open access application being successful?
 

CharlesR

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2019
Messages
236
First I've heard about it. Crossed wires amongst the Twitter team? Or will one of the two planned additional off-peak Superfasts to Bristol now go to South Wales instead? A spoiler to ruin the chances of an open access application being successful?

The last bit leaves me wondering - makes sense in a way. I’m pretty sure they don’t have the stock for it so it will replace the 4th train per hour?
 

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
2,491
If this refers to the Cardiff services, the Twitter team have got it wrong. The fast Bristol services are not being diverted to Cardiff.
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,231
I`m not talking halcyon days stuff here. This is the current timetable I`m talking about. A couple of 3.45 hour/minute daily wouldn`t have changed things much surely in the scheme of things, and yes, I willingly accept slower trains which has always been the way. It`s personal choice on two well used services. I take your point however this not on this occasion being solely about the W of E. Doesn`t mean I have to agree with this though.

I never bought into the "Bullet Trains in Cornwall" truck that was touted and this is where GWR and various other agencies need to stand up admit just a bit of a con trick. Whilst you and others correctly point out there was never going to be massive speed increases Mr Average Dave Joseph was never really going to be sold "it`s all about averages across the network" was he? Might be why tripadvisor and their like are swarming in anti GWR posts (some which aren`t their fault either).
You and I can believe what we will.

Well lots of other people's personal choices and journey needs that don't happen to line up with a super-fast train each day couldn't care less if such services exist - e.g. the ones between London and Birmingham and London and Manchester that Virgin operates amid a 3tph frequency.

PS: Back on Monday, you gave us a little list of journey times between Bodmin and Paddington. On actually dissecting it just now, I find that all is not what you made it seem, is it?

Pre Dec 19 Bodmin Parkway - Padd 06:12 - 10:02 = 3:50 Post Dec 19 06:04 - 09:59 = 3:55.
06.57 - 11.21 = 4.24 07.16 - 11.29 = 4.13.
08.07 - 12.21 = 4.14 07.39 - 12.09 = 4.30
09.01 - 13.15 = 4.14 08.26 - 12.29 = 4.03
10.16 - 14.01 = 3.45 09.29 - 13.29 = 4

The 07.39 departure is not a direct service to London - it requires a change at Newton Abbot from XC to GWR, with a 14-mimute connection allowance there.

Had you instead compared the current 08.07 with the new 08.26 departure from Bodmin - which the rest of us awkward people would probably do, as it is a through GWR train - then the 4hr 14min current journey becomes a 4hr 3min one to London.

Comparing the 09.01 with the new 09.29, the current 4hr 14min run to London becomes a 4hr journey, while comparing the current 10.16 Cornish Riviera with the new 10.29 sees the 3hr 45 min journey become 3hrs 58 min, with three extra calls in Devon to fit in.

And so on - seven of the day's nine through trains between Bodmin and London will get to Paddington in between 3hrs 55mins and 4hrs 3mins. That near enough standard running time is going to be a better selling point than saying to people, 'if you happen to want/need to set off around that time, then that one train gets there 10 minutes faster than the others'.

Seven direct trains the other way have journey times to Bodmin of around 3hrs 50mins - and the 11.04 Paddington to Plymouth has a five-minute connection for Cornwall there, with arrival at Bodmin in 3hrs 51mins.

And Mr Average Dave Joseph of Penzance, Cornwall, will indeed be getting journey times that are up to 15 (20 in one case) minutes better than now. Not a con trick.
 

Master29

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
1,970
Well lots of other people's personal choices and journey needs that don't happen to line up with a super-fast train each day couldn't care less if such services exist - e.g. the ones between London and Birmingham and London and Manchester that Virgin operates amid a 3tph frequency.

PS: Back on Monday, you gave us a little list of journey times between Bodmin and Paddington. On actually dissecting it just now, I find that all is not what you made it seem, is it?



The 07.39 departure is not a direct service to London - it requires a change at Newton Abbot from XC to GWR, with a 14-mimute connection allowance there.

Had you instead compared the current 08.07 with the new 08.26 departure from Bodmin - which the rest of us awkward people would probably do, as it is a through GWR train - then the 4hr 14min current journey becomes a 4hr 3min one to London.

Comparing the 09.01 with the new 09.29, the current 4hr 14min run to London becomes a 4hr journey, while comparing the current 10.16 Cornish Riviera with the new 10.29 sees the 3hr 45 min journey become 3hrs 58 min, with three extra calls in Devon to fit in.

And so on - seven of the day's nine through trains between Bodmin and London will get to Paddington in between 3hrs 55mins and 4hrs 3mins. That near enough standard running time is going to be a better selling point than saying to people, 'if you happen to want/need to set off around that time, then that one train gets there 10 minutes faster than the others'.

Seven direct trains the other way have journey times to Bodmin of around 3hrs 50mins - and the 11.04 Paddington to Plymouth has a five-minute connection for Cornwall there, with arrival at Bodmin in 3hrs 51mins.

And Mr Average Dave Joseph of Penzance, Cornwall, will indeed be getting journey times that are up to 15 (20 in one case) minutes better than now. Not a con trick.
Well Jimm. To be fair I readily admit to not looking at the down services bearing in mind it isn`t quite the same travelling to London. They are certainly an improvement but why the disparity on calling points. Not a recent situation as I`ve noticed this in the past. Certainly on afternoon services the trains heavily offload at the main Somerset and Devon stops which probably has a lot to do with it.
They`ve certainly utilised the IET`s acceleration on the down services.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,721
Location
West of England
Two additional services in the morning and evening peaks will also operate from South Wales to Bristol Parkway and then direct into London Paddington. From May 2020 GWR plans to extend these extra peak time trains to operate throughout the day.

From the GWR website.
 

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
2,491
And it's wrong.

The off peak service west of Swindon in May 2020 will be 1TPH Swansea, 1TPH Cardiff, 2 TPH Bristol via Bath and 2 TPH Bristol via Parkway.
 

Mitchell Hurd

On Moderation
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
1,647
Hi. I'm not sure if this is the right thread (or the GWR West of England stock thread) but I do hope this news hasn't mucked up GWR's plans for the new Thames Valley stopping service timetable for London trains!

With any luck this will just mean Turbos remain on the Gatwick and Henley routes - that's alright.

The routes to and from Cardiff and Portsmouth I understand were (or are) due to go over to 5-car Turbo operation?

I swear there's not one single UK train operator who's got any new / refurbished fleet introduction in recent times.




https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QxfQBCCgwAA&usg=AOvVaw1fxNQoxR-HJk11zkUG9XZb
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,455
Location
UK
Someone brilliant in GWR has decided to downgrade the 1707 Frome service to a 1708 to Bedwyn. Which is fine except that it uses the reversing siding which can only accomodate a 5 car unit :rolleyes:
This timetable is gonna be a complete disaster on the Thames Valley side, too many conflicts at Junctions.
Currently services cross at Dolphin and Maidenhead East junctions, but in the new timetable services cross over at Stockley and Ruscombe junctions in addition, just as an example.
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,935
Someone brilliant in GWR has decided to downgrade the 1707 Frome service to a 1708 to Bedwyn. Which is fine except that it uses the reversing siding which can only accomodate a 5 car unit :rolleyes:

The 17.08 Bedwyn is booked a 10 car 802 in Dec 19 dividing at Newbury.
 

MarlowDonkey

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
1,101
With any luck this will just mean Turbos remain on the Gatwick and Henley routes - that's alright.

Also the Marlow, Windsor and Greenford branches and the Didcot to Oxford locals. Perhaps also the odd Bedwyn or Oxford fast if there isn't an 800/802 available.

There will be two 387s an hour on the Didcot limited stop service, with the "all stations" to and from Reading being provided by TFL's 345s.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,785
Perhaps also the odd Bedwyn or Oxford fast if there isn't an 800/802 available.

Why would that happen (and how)? Any substitution is more likely to be another 800 / 802 if one fails. It isn't as if there are any spare Turbos at Bedwyn, Paddington or maybe even Oxford.
 

Pete_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2017
Messages
1,253
Location
Stroud, Glos
Split at Swindon or go 10 car to Cheltenham?

Also, will it mean the end to the services to and from Salisbury and Southampton?
 

DaveHarries

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2011
Messages
2,298
Location
England
I think there is still 1 train a day from Gloucester to Southampton via Swindon.
Looking at RealTimeTrains for 16th December the longer distance trains linking Swindon and Westbury are as follows:

Mondays to Fridays:
2O20 0611 Swindon - Southampton Central
2G81 0703 Westbury - Cheltenham Spa
2O90 1750 Gloucester - Southampton Central
2G91 2006 Westbury - Cheltenham Spa

Saturdays:
None

Sundays:
2V79 1123 Weymouth - Swindon
2O91 1341 Swindon - Weymouth

HTIOI,
Dave
 

Pete_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2017
Messages
1,253
Location
Stroud, Glos
Apologies, they will go to Cheltenham as a 10 car.

Thanks Mintona. I'm guessing announcements everywhere that only one section will be platformed at Stonehouse! Mind you a few carriages will be off the platform in Stroud...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top