Antisocial behaviour between Godalming & Guildford

Monty · 16 Oct 2019

pompeyfan said:
thank you for clarifying. I wonder if it would be worth the time and effort to retrofit and make GOPs BR1 operated and the PA key operated, similar to the 377s

That was one of the changes with the 707s GOPs, they require a BR1b key to open. But I remember we had all sorts of issues with quality control and for a while SWT even considered retrofitting them to T/L key type locks before they lost the franchise and it became clear the 707s time on the South Western Division would be limited.

It would depend on money (and I keep being told it's in short supply) and finding reliable manufacturer. But I don't think the will is there.

RailUK Forums

Goldfish62 · 16 Oct 2019

Monty said:
You don't even need a T key to behonest, a large flat head screwdriver will do the job just as well. In a pinch you can open a panel with a set of house keys...

Yep. I've opened the window in a roasting 458 using one of my house keys. Wedge in and twist.

Peter Mugridge · 16 Oct 2019

Monty said:
You don't even need a T key to behonest, a large flat head screwdriver will do the job just as well. In a pinch you can open a panel with a set of house keys...

Not sure how long you've been on the railway, but do you remember Traction Inspector Bentley and Train crew Manager Denton at Waterloo? I complained to them face to face once that the class 455 cabs were hopelessly insecure and that the lid of a standard BIC biro was enough to open the lock from the saloon. They didn't believe me, so I showed one of them in person... Horrified look on the face... and within months the catches in question had been covered up with metal panels.

Monty · 16 Oct 2019

Peter Mugridge said:
Not sure how long you've been on the railway, but do you remember Traction Inspector Bentley and Train crew Manager Denton at Waterloo? I complained to them face to face once that the class 455 cabs were hopelessly insecure and that the lid of a standard BIC biro was enough to open the lock from the saloon. They didn't believe me, so I showed one of them in person... Horrified look on the face... and within months the catches in question had been covered up with metal panels.

Been on now for about 13 years now, so might of been a little before my time. That said at the depots I've been based from we didn't have much to do with Waterloo management and inspectors. It is quite alarming though just how easy it is to use every day items to bypass locks and switches.

TRAX · 16 Oct 2019

French trains use this design of locks:

Square and triangle, which are operated by these:

Which can be found in hardware stores, but you really would want to be looking for them and aren’t that cheap.

Thus doors and closets are much more secure than with a female lock which can be operated with anything that can fit in it.
And cabs have yet another key needed to be opened.

Don’t UK trains have this type of square and triangle male locks ? They are found on trains worldwide, I don’t think you guys are an exception ?

Elecman · 16 Oct 2019

TRAX said:
French trains use this design of locks:
View attachment 69455
Square and triangle, which are operated by these:
View attachment 69456
Which can be found in hardware stores, but you really would want to be looking for them and aren’t that cheap.

Thus doors and closets are much more secure than with a female lock which can be operated with anything that can fit in it.
And cabs have yet another key needed to be opened.

Don’t UK trains have this type of square and triangle male locks ? They are found on trains worldwide, I don’t think you guys are an exception ?

You can buy those multi Utility keys from Poundland!! So they are dirt cheap

Grumpy Git · 16 Oct 2019

Elecman said:
You can buy those multi Utility keys from Poundland!! So they are dirt cheap

I wish they sold them in airport duty-free shops. I've had them in my laptop bag inadvertently when departing Manchester airport and invariably get them confiscated by jobsworths in security.

TRAX · 16 Oct 2019

Grumpy Git said:
I wish they sold them in airport duty-free shops. I've had them in my laptop bag inadvertently when departing Manchester airport and invariably get them confiscated by jobsworths in security.

I always manage to get past the Eurostar checks with mine, once with difficulty though. Still, easy to find or not, I suspect these don’t really spring to the mind of vandals and co. compared to seeing a female lock and going "oh hey let’s see what I can stick in there" (no, not that).

Grumpy Git · 16 Oct 2019

TRAX said:
I always manage to get past the Eurostar checks with mine, once with difficulty though. Still, easy to find or not, I suspect these don’t really spring to the mind of vandals and co. compared to seeing a female lock and going "oh hey let’s see what I can stick in there" (no, not that).

The last time I had one taken off me, the security person argued it was a tool, (whilst I said it was a key), and their description trumped mine, ("but you are welcome to check it in with your luggage sir" - yeh, after waiting an hour in the queue to get to here, no thanks!)

aleggatta · 16 Oct 2019

Peter Mugridge said:
Not sure how long you've been on the railway, but do you remember Traction Inspector Bentley and Train crew Manager Denton at Waterloo? I complained to them face to face once that the class 455 cabs were hopelessly insecure and that the lid of a standard BIC biro was enough to open the lock from the saloon. They didn't believe me, so I showed one of them in person... Horrified look on the face... and within months the catches in question had been covered up with metal panels.

It's amazing how you can say something to one person and get a problem rectified, but you say it to others and it falls on deaf ears, like the major design flaw in Electrostar cab/saloon door locks.

Peter Mugridge · 16 Oct 2019

Monty said:
Been on now for about 13 years now, so might of been a little before my time. That said at the depots I've been based from we didn't have much to do with Waterloo management and inspectors. It is quite alarming though just how easy it is to use every day items to bypass locks and switches.

Ah, yes - they'll be somewhat before your time but it might be worth your asking some of the older hands about them. Proper traditional time served railwaymen who knew their jobs properly and when to be tough, but were very fair. I'm sure some of the older hands will remember them.

aleggatta said:
It's amazing how you can say something to one person and get a problem rectified, but you say it to others and it falls on deaf ears.

Probably goes back to those two, as I said above, being experienced time served people. Characters like that would know straight away when someone asks to show them something if it's worth seeing what they're on about. Imagine trying to explain a similar problem to some of the modern fast track graduate managers...

DelW · 17 Oct 2019

I don't know if it's related, but earlier this evening there was a heavy security presence on both platforms at Godalming, with SWR staff checking tickets at both platform entrances, backed up by at least 6 BTP officers and/or PCSOs. I've never seen that before in 25 years of using the station.
There was nothing untoward on the station while I was there, or on the Waterloo bound train I boarded.
(I didn't post at the time because of the very small chance that they might be targeting undesirables who just might monitor public forums like this. Unlikely I know, but I wouldn't want to have compromised such an operation).

pompeyfan · 18 Oct 2019

This sounds like just a generic heavy revenue block, which were stepped up when SWR said that they were putting gates in at Godalming

cjohnson · 20 Oct 2019

From SWR Twitter this eve:

An object was thrown at a train in the Goldaming area. This train has had to terminate. The lines in that area are now clear and trains are running but there may be some delays.

https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1186007379449733120?s=21

Goldfish62 · 21 Oct 2019

Reading about all these goings on I'm glad I live on the gentile Reading line...

Railwaysceptic · 22 Oct 2019

Goldfish62 said:
Reading about all these goings on I'm glad I live on the gentile Reading line...

Gentle or gentile?

talltim · 22 Oct 2019

Goldfish62 said:
Reading about all these goings on I'm glad I live on the gentile Reading line...

Railwaysceptic said:
Gentle or gentile?

Books other than the Torah?

GodAtum · 24 Oct 2019

pompeyfan said:
I’m sure there’s forum members on here that live in the above area. As many may be aware, there’s a group of youths that repeatedly assault passengers and staff, access the PA and start playing music and often expletives, and recently have started gaining access to intermediate cabs and sounding horns.

If you see anything please contact the BTP, the more reports, the more resources that should be used.

That area is known for anti-social behaviour of youths. I saw a lot of it around Guildford, Woking, Godalming and Aldershot.

Stigy · 24 Oct 2019

These ‘kids’ have been knocking around for ages. I was semi-responsible for trying to sort these idiots out. I’m glad I’m out of the equation now though. They need to be basically bullied off the railway. A few of them
Are 18 and over now so can be dealt with through the courts, the problem is those who have the power to report them for offences seldom use their powers effectively. The police rarely do anything else other than keep a high visibility presence in the area (it may not be noticed, but they’re doing what they can with the numbers they have in terms of visibility). High visibility is good, but these ‘kids’ need arresting everytime. I frankly couldn’t care less about the lack of room In a custody suit on a Friday and Saturday night, if they’re committing offences they need dealing with. SWR (their RCOs and prosecutions dept.) need to come down hard in them, and get in their faces.

As has been said, these kids are feral, they need dealing with.

GodAtum · 24 Oct 2019

Stigy said:
These ‘kids’ have been knocking around for ages. I was semi-responsible for trying to sort these idiots out. I’m glad I’m out of the equation now though. They need to be basically bullied off the railway. A few of them
Are 18 and over now so can be dealt with through the courts, the problem is those who have the power to report them for offences seldom use their powers effectively. The police rarely do anything else other than keep a high visibility presence in the area (it may not be noticed, but they’re doing what they can with the numbers they have in terms of visibility). High visibility is good, but these ‘kids’ need arresting everytime. I frankly couldn’t care less about the lack of room In a custody suit on a Friday and Saturday night, if they’re committing offences they need dealing with. SWR (their RCOs and prosecutions dept.) need to come down hard in them, and get in their faces.

As has been said, these kids are feral, they need dealing with.

Agreed, unfortunately I've been affected by them a number of times.

Deepgreen · 24 Oct 2019

Elecman said:
You can buy those multi Utility keys from Poundland!! So they are dirt cheap

I doubt if the price bothers the abusers - stealing costs nothing.

A Challenge · 25 Oct 2019

Stigy said:
The police rarely do anything else other than keep a high visibility presence in the area (it may not be noticed, but they’re doing what they can with the numbers they have in terms of visibility).

Is this like when I heard that there had been a few robberies in an area, so they wanted a police presence in the area to reassure people - sent along two plain-clothed police officers in an unmarked car?

RichardN · 11 Mar 2020

https://www.eagleradio.co.uk/news/l...m-parts-of-farncombe-godalming-and-guildford/

eagleradio said:
A young person has been banned from entering certain parts of Farncombe, Godalming and Guildford after Surrey Police secured a Criminal Behaviour Order.
It was after multiple reports of antisocial behaviour from a small group of young people in Farncombe over the past few months.

It included verbal abuse, criminal damage and fighting at local train stations.

I suspect this could be related.

cactustwirly · 11 Mar 2020

A Challenge said:
Is this like when I heard that there had been a few robberies in an area, so they wanted a police presence in the area to reassure people - sent along two plain-clothed police officers in an unmarked car?

I don't see why that's a bad thing?
An unmarked car and plain clothes is going to be more effective at gathering intelligence.

theironroad · 11 Mar 2020

RichardN said:
https://www.eagleradio.co.uk/news/l...m-parts-of-farncombe-godalming-and-guildford/

I suspect this could be related.

I'd imagine so and while it is very welcome , one conviction is a tip of the iceberg. I'm not even sure if the deterrent value will work on the others as certainly they've been up to their usual shenanigans in the last few days.

Glad that they've taken seriously though as people have been assualted by this gang.

mmh · 11 Mar 2020

cactustwirly said:
I don't see why that's a bad thing?
An unmarked car and plain clothes is going to be more effective at gathering intelligence.

Unmarked cars and plain clothes police don't reassure the public that they have a police presence, and they don't deter people from offending.

The detectives are important, but so is visible policing.

Stigy · 11 Mar 2020

mmh said:
Unmarked cars and plain clothes police don't reassure the public that they have a police presence, and they don't deter people from offending.

The detectives are important, but so is visible policing.

I agree that it doesn’t necessarily reassure the public as they’re not seen, but it Becomes effective if/when offenders start to get arrested (This in turn reassures as the public get the sense that there’s a presence, as things start get done). The element of surprise and not knowing who’s watching often serves as a deterrent. Unfortunately, the little darlings involved in most of the ASB in and around Godalming don’t really care. Because they’re scum, and they need a fire extinguisher round the back of the head and bundling in a van, never to be seen again. But that’s just my opinion after witnessing first hand how disgusting these lot are.

Antisocial behaviour between Godalming & Guildford

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