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Why are Northern allowed to cancel Sunday Services seemingly at will?

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mandub

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That is exactly the point that I sought to make in an earlier posting on this thread, which made reference to certain drivers not wishing to work Sundays.

It's true that plenty of drivers at my depot don't want to work any Sundays (me included).
But my unscientific take on it is that despite this the vast majority accept that Sunday working should and will be brought into the working week at some point. So it's just the details of any agreement that holds things up.
The problem with the recently rejected new deal was that it only specified a minimum number of Sundays we'd be expected to work per month & no maximum.
Personally I'd accept an agreement that said something like minimum 1 in 4 & maximum 1 in 3 Sundays. I'm sure others might disagree with this but it'd be OK with me despite not really wanting to work them at all.
 
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SteveM70

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Personally I'd accept an agreement that said something like minimum 1 in 4 & maximum 1 in 3 Sundays. I'm sure others might disagree with this but it'd be OK with me despite not really wanting to work them at all.

And presumably some undertaking around reasonable notice of Sunday working to help you plan your life? I work in logistics for a high street retailer and that was part of the agreement when we brought Sundays into the normal working week for our drivers
 

156420

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Sundays especially, the traincrew diagrams are changing every few weeks, because of the new fleet introduction, you don’t know where you are from one week to the next at the moment with the amount of STP dockets, which is one of the Sunday working issues.
 

Whisky Papa

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Sundays especially, the traincrew diagrams are changing every few weeks, because of the new fleet introduction, you don’t know where you are from one week to the next at the moment with the amount of STP dockets, which is one of the Sunday working issues.

Even when the new fleets are fully up and running, STP alterations for engineering work occur somewhere virtually every Sunday. I presume that puttng diagrams into links that then might change dramatically - or in some circumstances not be required at all - is a further complication, but the depots on the Yorkshire / NE side of Northern must have experience of making this work?
 

Matt_pool

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Sunday should be a day of rest, like Boxing day.
Surely Boxing Day is one of the busiest days of the year because a lot of people have the day off work, and as they were stuck at home all day on Christmas Day they want to get out and about and go to the pub or go shopping.

Which is the the same as on Sundays when most people want to make the most of their day off work before then having to slave away in some cr@ppy 9-5 job from Monday to Friday!
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Surely Boxing Day is one of the busiest days of the year because a lot of people have the day off work, and as they were stuck at home all day on Christmas Day they want to get out and about and go to the pub or go shopping.

Which is the the same as on Sundays when most people want to make the most of their day off work before then having to slave away in some cr@ppy 9-5 job from Monday to Friday!

Boxing day is one of the busiest days of the year out and about not least because about there are the best part of a million people around the country trying to get to football matches and struggle every year. Especially if you support Liverpool and are meant to get to Leicester at and home for an 8.00pm kick off boxing day. The latest there has ever been.
 

Sleeperwaking

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Which is the the same as on Sundays when most people want to make the most of their day off work before then having to slave away in some cr@ppy 9-5 job from Monday to Friday!
Hear hear! I don't want to waste 50% of my weekend just because a religion I don't even adhere to decreed we should all just stay at home instead. And if I'm going away for the weekend, I don't generally mean "Saturday only".
 

Grannyjoans

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slave away in some cr@ppy 9-5 job from Monday to Friday!

Yep but working Sundays means the rail staff will have to do exactly that on Sundays when they've already done Mon to Sat!
No wonder there's no volunteers
 
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Hear hear! I don't want to waste 50% of my weekend just because a religion I don't even adhere to decreed we should all just stay at home instead. And if I'm going away for the weekend, I don't generally mean "Saturday only".

...and I don't want to waste 100% of my weekend at work.
 

Grannyjoans

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Yes but whenever a Sunday appears in my link it always means working 7 days on the bounce. Most of those days being longer than 8 hours. That Sunday would have been the only day off.
 

Mathew S

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Yes but whenever a Sunday appears in my link it always means working 7 days on the bounce. Most of those days being longer than 8 hours. That Sunday would have been the only day off.
But presumably you would then get a longer period of time off than the standard two day weekend?
If not, then I assume that bringing Sundays into the usual working week would go some way to rectifying the problem by having it part of a standard rota?
On the broader point, I have some sympathy for long-serving staff who might say that Sunday working just isn't what they signed up for. However, as others have said, it's not the 1950s anymore and Sunday is (rightly, in my view) just another day.
 

geoffk

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Yep but working Sundays means the rail staff will have to do exactly that on Sundays when they've already done Mon to Sat!
No wonder there's no volunteers
No offence meant but surely train crew who don't want to work on Sundays are in the wrong job.
 

Carlisle

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No offence meant but surely train crew who don't want to work on Sundays are in the wrong job.
Yes it’s only really staff who joined the railways prior to 1994 when most stores etc still closed on Sundays that could justifiably request to be treated differently
 

Grannyjoans

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No offence meant but surely train crew who don't want to work on Sundays are in the wrong job.

If Sundays are in the working week then no problem.

The problems occur when Sunday is outside the working week and it is added on as overtime.
 

Carlisle

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If Sundays are in the working week then no problem.

The problems occur when Sunday is outside the working week and it is added on as overtime.
True, but unions wont likley agree new contracts unless they offer significantly more generous terms than current ones, & neither can management simply impose deals they themselves might deem fair without a high probability of enduring a prolonged period of strike action as a result, so the debate just goes round & round endlessly.
 
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muz379

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I can personally see why many people working on the railway dont volunteer for additional Sunday working . Salaries are already attractive enough , and if you have a family it might be the one guaranteed day of the week you can spend with them . Also as has already been raised there are points in most Roster patterns where working a Sunday will lead to you working an extended number of days without a break .

I think most train-crew I speak to however realise that the reality of the matter is that there does need to be a service on a Sunday and if a reasonable offer was made they would be prepared to entertain a commitment to work them with the most popular solution being to bring them inside the week whilst retaining the 4 day working week . This means TOC's employing a lot more guards/drivers and incurring the costs of that .

I personally dont mind it occasionally , I find our work content is lighter and you usually end up with double units all day so less stress with overcrowding .
True, but unions wont likley agree new contracts easily that aren’t on extremely generous terms & neither can management simply impose deals they themselves might deem fair without a high probability of enduring a prolonged period of strike action as a result, so the debate just goes round & round endlessly.
There is the third side to this , which is that companies dont approach the issue with serious proposals or with any serious intention to actually make a deal .

Take the recent attempt at this very TOC to bring Sundays inside the week , it was not just a straight deal offered on Sundays it included many other condition changes and was vague on how Sundays would be implemented whilst maintaining a 4 day week .
 

Grannyjoans

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True, but unions wont likley agree new contracts unless they offer significantly more generous terms than current ones, & neither can management simply impose deals they themselves might deem fair without a high probability of enduring a prolonged period of strike action as a result, so the debate just goes round & round endlessly.
The last deal to get Sunday's in the working week was undesirable as they were throwing in other unwanted T&C's such as 6 hours maximum without a break! No wonder it never got voted in
 
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