• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lift problem at Manchester Victoria

Status
Not open for further replies.
Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,407
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
For some time, the platform 3 lift on the bridge that allows passengers arriving or departing to access/egress platforms 4,5, 6 has been out of commission and people with disabilities, large items of heavy luggage or childrens' trolleys have been inconvenienced. There is a notice on the barriers stopping bridge level access to the lift stating the problem is known, but has any one any idea when this lift will be working again?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

B

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,739
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Xenophon PCDGS said:
For some time, the platform 3 lift on the bridge that allows passengers arriving or departing to access/egress platforms 4,5, 6 has been out of commission and people with disabilities, large items of heavy luggage or childrens' trolleys have been inconvenienced. There is a notice on the barriers stopping bridge level access to the lift stating the problem is known, but has any one any idea when this lift will be working again?
Click to expand...

I can't explain the problem at Manchester Victoria, but I have noticed in recent months more & more problems with lifts not just across the rail network, but away from it too. For example at my office, there have been increasing problems with the lifts which now regularly see 3 or 4 out of 8 in the building routinely out of service. Maybe there is a wider problem?
 
Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,407
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Earlier today, whilst at Manchester Victoria, I noticed the lifts connection on platform 3, platforms 4 and 5, platform 6 were all totally shuttered of with fencing and staff from Stannah were on site. People arriving at platforms 4, 5 and 6 were forced to carry large-sized items up and down stairs, but some Northern staff were using a wheelchair attachment affixed to a transportation unit that could climb the stairs by means of what looked like a motorised rubber caterpillar drive, to transport elderly and disabled people who were unable to climb the stairs.

I spoke to a Northern member of staff who was operating this unit and he said "After Christmas" when I asked him how long the lifts were likely to be out of commission. He said that notices were being affixed to inform passengers of problems and that Northern staff would be assisting during the period of the lift upgrading.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
According to a posting I saw on FB this rather cack-handed sounding device can only cope with a maximum combination of person and chair of 100kg, which in my view is pushing the definition of "reasonable adjustments" given that quite a lot of wheelchair users are heavier due to it being more difficult to exercise compared with an able bodied person. I'm sure they could have done better than this for a main station in Britain's second/third city, and I do hope someone pushes the point.
 
F

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
156
Victoria is on a completely different scale to almost all Northern’s other stations - thinking of the over bridge staircase entry/no entry farce in recent years, the entirely preventable (it was an obvious problem for a fortnight before) roof collapse (or burst) not so long ago, and now this - perhaps they aren’t geared up for big estates and should pass it to network rail like Piccadilly is?
 
LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,685
Location
Mold, Clwyd
When I passed through Victoria on Monday, engineers were fiddling with the lift controls, though they were still operational.
One of them said the lifts were being replaced, so they would be unavailable for "some time".
Beats me why there are no escalators at the modernised Victoria, the footfall on the steps is enormous.
 
S

SteveM70

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
3,876
LNW-GW Joint said:
When I passed through Victoria on Monday, engineers were fiddling with the lift controls, though they were still operational.
One of them said the lifts were being replaced, so they would be unavailable for "some time".
Beats me why there are no escalators at the modernised Victoria, the footfall on the steps is enormous.
Click to expand...

especially when we have our daily game of musical platforms
 
J

js1000

Member
Joined
14 Jun 2014
Messages
1,011
Foxcover said:
Victoria is on a completely different scale to almost all Northern’s other stations - thinking of the over bridge staircase entry/no entry farce in recent years, the entirely preventable (it was an obvious problem for a fortnight before) roof collapse (or burst) not so long ago, and now this - perhaps they aren’t geared up for big estates and should pass it to network rail like Piccadilly is?
Click to expand...
I don't think that's an excuse though. Victoria should be a bit of a nice earner for Northern that covers upkeep. Starbucks, Costa, Greggs, WH Smith, Beer House & Kitchen, Victoria Tap etc with increased levels of footfall following diversion of more TPE services through the station. It was never like that before the roof upgrade. There is a clause in the Northern franchise agreement though that obligates Northern to transfer operations of Victoria and/or Oxford Road to Network Rail if they so request during the course of the franchise. The lift 'problems' sound like a necessary mid-life upgrade to me. Everything needs refurbishing at some point.
 
M

modernrail

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
1,054
With Victoria now being the main Manchester station hub for TPE it needs to be transferred to Network Rail and needs significant upgrading of the through platforms. Lifts, lighting, display screens, staff levels, ventilation the lot. The lack of escalators is a real problem with the volumes of long distance passengers now suddenly using a set of platforms that were clearly (badly) designed for local services.
 
D

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,678
I remember when First North Western "managed" Liverpool Lime Street before it was taken out of their hands and passed to Network Rail due to their complete neglect.
 
G

Geeves

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2009
Messages
1,936
Location
Rochdale
The lift works are being funded Network Rail. It's only because Northern have been badgering NR for years something is finally being done. It will be worth it in the long run as it's a very thorough job being done though I appreciate it's making life difficult for the less able bodied amongst us.

As for complaints about the station being inadequate and how it should be handed to NR, that would be a mere sticking plaster to cover the fact the station lay out was designed for 10 trains an hour, versus the 26 at some points of the day it's got now. What can be done?
 
Last edited:
M

muz379

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2014
Messages
2,218
Bletchleyite said:
According to a posting I saw on FB this rather cack-handed sounding device can only cope with a maximum combination of person and chair of 100kg, which in my view is pushing the definition of "reasonable adjustments" given that quite a lot of wheelchair users are heavier due to it being more difficult to exercise compared with an able bodied person. I'm sure they could have done better than this for a main station in Britain's second/third city, and I do hope someone pushes the point.
Click to expand...
Tbh I think 100kg is pushing it even just to transport someone of average weight (around 80kg for a man) plus an electric wheelchair which can easily weight 20kg plus because of the bank of batteries contained within it .
 
Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,407
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Bletchleyite said:
Not an awful lot without demolishing the arena. At least Picc 13/14 has a load of wasteland next to it (for now).
Click to expand...

But there are already regenerative plans in place that cover the development of the area of Mayfield, so no need to bring that into the equation and as for the comment about the demolition of the area, there has been enough comment passed over recent years about Manchester being fortunate to have such an event facility in the city centre core. Manchester Victoria station is not the station that it once was in the days of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, with ten east-facing terminal bay platforms (1-10), six through platforms (11-16) and an east facing bay platform (17).

All Manchester Victoria is these days is a station with two east-facing bay platforms and four through lines.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
What is interesting is that Manchester, after closure of Central (which would be of limited use for the current service pattern anyway), has always lacked west-facing terminal capacity.

Anyway, this has nowt to do with lifts :)
 
F

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
156
True! But is it fair to say the vision for Victoria is suffering because it’s not in Network Rail’s hands? I’m guessing Northern don’t have much resource to think/lobby long-term about ‘how to solve a problem like Victoria’; so, is having the central stations under fragmented management making it harder to solve the bigger problem, and for Victoria, meaning obvious things like lifts and retail development don’t get thought about in time because it’s just not Northern’s core business?
 
D

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,678
Foxcover said:
True! But is it fair to say the vision for Victoria is suffering because it’s not in Network Rail’s hands? I’m guessing Northern don’t have much resource to think/lobby long-term about ‘how to solve a problem like Victoria’; so, is having the central stations under fragmented management making it harder to solve the bigger problem, and for Victoria, meaning obvious things like lifts and retail development don’t get thought about in time because it’s just not Northern’s core business?
Click to expand...

I quote the example of Liverpool Lime Street above. I don't anyone would wish or see the logic in this being returned to being managed by the successor of First North Western i.e. Northern.
 
Last edited:
F

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
156
Yes, a good example, and it supports the idea of moving Manchester Victoria under Network Rail doesn’t it? Managing something like Victoria strategically just isn’t Northern’s core business - it’s Network Rail’s.
 
S

SteveM70

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
3,876
Having used Victoria for 30 years on and off, but many times a week over the last few years, it seems to me that the influx of TPE services have changed the role of the station somewhat - it was previously mainly a start or end point of a journey, now there are far more passengers changing there.

As such, the lack of facilities on the platform side of the gateline is pitiful. No toilets, no catering, few seats, even no proper information provision as the only screens showing full details of all services are on the other side of the gateline and angled so that seeing them from the platform side is nigh on impossible (there are screens showing summary level departures but these can’t be used to clarify intermediate stops)

There are also reports elsewhere of gateline staff refusing to allow passengers to exit in order to go to the toilet and re-enter.

As long as Northern are responsible for the station, I can’t see anything being done about it.
 
M

muz379

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2014
Messages
2,218
dont have a strong opinion either way on who should manages the station .

But if the lifts are beyond economical repair and need refurbishing this will be an issue regardless of who manages the station .

if the station is took out of Northerns portfolio there will also have to be compensation probably in the form of increased subsidy to make up for the loss of rental income from retail units in the station as well .
 
N

notlob.divad

Established Member
Joined
19 Jan 2016
Messages
1,609
Good that something is being done about PRM access at Victoria. It is all well and good havng PRM compatible rolling stock, but if there are people who cannot get to the platforms, accessing the rolling stock is irrelevent.

As for Network Rail taking over there is one very simle reason why this won't happen, and equally why the facilities are unlikely to recieve any substatntial upgrade. The station is neither in London, nor served by trains that also serve London. Network Rail's stations are either central London stations, or the terminus of London services. As Manchester Victoria fulfills neither of these functions, it can be ignored and any improvements are well down the list of priorities for decision makers.
 
D

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,678
notlob.divad said:
Good that something is being done about PRM access at Victoria. It is all well and good havng PRM compatible rolling stock, but if there are people who cannot get to the platforms, accessing the rolling stock is irrelevent.

As for Network Rail taking over there is one very simle reason why this won't happen, and equally why the facilities are unlikely to recieve any substatntial upgrade. The station is neither in London, nor served by trains that also serve London. Network Rail's stations are either central London stations, or the terminus of London services. As Manchester Victoria fulfills neither of these functions, it can be ignored and any improvements are well down the list of priorities for decision makers.
Click to expand...

Broadly that's the case. The one that looks a bit unusual is Guildford. Network Rail seems to gone hot and cold about expanding their stations over the years. Certainly Liverpool Lime Street wasn't on the original list but it did fall into the "served by multiple TOCs and it is not really obvious which one should manage it" box as well as the "TOC that is managing it is not doing a good job" box.
 
M

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,534
Is Guildford because Network Rail are chucking a massive development on top of it?
Plus maybe extra platforms.
 
D

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,678
Meerkat said:
Is Guildford because Network Rail are chucking a massive development on top of it?
Plus maybe extra platforms.
Click to expand...
Struggling to think of a single reason to be honest. Anyone?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top