Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

yorksrob · 25 Oct 2019

sprinterguy said:
Yeah for some reason there seems to be a desperate struggle to remove Heaton's comparatively comfortable individual seated units from service, so that they can be replaced in the North East by 1980s bus seated examples displaced from Newton Heath. I'm sure there's sound reasoning to this based on times until heavy exams, but from a passenger's perspective it seems quite mental.

One wonders how it can be that only Newton Heath seem to have been doing heavy exams recently !

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sprinterguy · 25 Oct 2019

yorksrob said:
One wonders how it can be that only Newton Heath seem to have been doing heavy exams recently !

I presume that Heaton were expecting to have the full compliment of ex-Neville Hill class 158s they were promised by now, whereas Newton Heath may have been expected to be the last bastion of Northern class 142 operation, the last unit of which was originally expected to be withdrawn nearly a fortnight ago.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some "juggling" going on to keep the lowest engine hours examples eking out their final days across a wider Northern network than was planned.

anamyd · 25 Oct 2019

Karl said:
142 001
142 002
142 003
142 004
142 005
142 006
142 007
142 008 - Withdrawn. Collision with 87 027 Wolf of Badenoch at Winsford in 1999.
142 009
142 010

142 011
142 012
142 013
142 014
142 015
142 016
142 017
142 018
142 019
142 020

142 021
142 022
142 023
142 024
142 025
142 026
142 027
142 028
142 029
142 030

142 031
142 032
142 033
142 034
142 035
142 036
142 037
142 038
142 039
142 040

142 041
142 042
142 043
142 044
142 045
142 046
142 047
142 048
142 049
142 050

142 051
142 052
142 053
142 054
142 055
142 056
142 057
142 058
142 059 - Withdrawn. Collision damage after hitting buffer stops at Liverpool Lime Street 1991.
142 060

142 061
142 062
142 063
142 064
142 065
142 066
142 067
142 068
142 069
142 070

142 071
142 072
142 073
142 074
142 075
142 076
142 077
142 078
142 079
142 080

142 081
142 082
142 083
142 084
142 085
142 086
142 087
142 088
142 089
142 090

142 091
142 092
142 093
142 094
142 095
142 096

Why has your list only got 142s on it, and only mentions two withdrawn in 1991 and 1999...?

NorthernSpirit said: ↑
Here's a list.

Red - withdrawn.
Orange - scrapped.
Yellow - converted to other use (does not include food tins or razor blades).
Green - modified for Passengers of Reduced Mobility.
Blue - in storage.
Purple - preserved.

Class 142
001 - set to be preserved
002
003
004
005 - First to be withdrawn
006
007
008 - Scrapped
009
010
011
012
013
014
015
016 - Withdrawn
017
018
019
020
021 - Withdrawn
022 - Withdrawn
023
024
025 - Withdrawn
026
027
028
029
030
031
032
033
034
035
036
037
038
039
040
041
042
043
044
045
046 - in storage.
047
048
049
050
051
052
053
054
055
056
057
058
059 - Scrapped
060
061
062
063
064
065
066 - withdrawn
067
068
069
070
071
072
073
074
075
076
077
078
079
080
081
082
083
084
085
086
087
088
089
090
091
092
093
094
095
096

Class 143
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613 - Scrapped
614
615 - Scrapped
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625

Class 144 - All units stabled at Neville Hill.
001
002
003
004
005
006
007
008
009
010
011
012 - 144 Evolution has full PRM modifications.
013
014
015
016
017
018
019
020
021
022
023

I'll try and keep the list updated.

yorksrob · 25 Oct 2019

sprinterguy said:
I presume that Heaton were expecting to have the full compliment of ex-Neville Hill class 158s they were promised by now, whereas Newton Heath may have been expected to be the last bastion of Northern class 142 operation, the last unit of which was originally expected to be withdrawn nearly a fortnight ago.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some "juggling" going on to keep the lowest engine hours examples eking out their final days across a wider Northern network than was planned.

Oh well, I suppose at least the bus seat ones aren't too bad !

simon7929 · 25 Oct 2019

Number 21/22 and 46 are now out of store and are in regular use. Others have been stored since the initial first batch of 6. Number 66 is not officially withdrawn but has not ran since early August and will now need an exam if it is to be used. Given that there are many others in warm store. I would guess it is likely we may never see it run again. But I could be wrong?

sprinterguy · 26 Oct 2019

yorksrob said:
Oh well, I suppose at least the bus seat ones aren't too bad !

They certainly have a very retro 1980s feel.

NorthernSpirit · 26 Oct 2019

NorthernSpirit said:
Here's a list.

Red - withdrawn.
Orange - scrapped.
Yellow - converted to other use (does not include food tins or razor blades).
Green - modified for Passengers of Reduced Mobility.
Blue - in storage.
Purple - preserved.

Class 142
001 - set to be preserved
002
003
004
005 - First to be withdrawn
006
007
008 - Scrapped
009 - Stored
010
011
012
013
014
015 - Stored
016 - Stored
017
018
019
020
021 - Withdrawn
022 - Withdrawn
023
024
025 - Stored
026
027
028
029
030
031
032
033
034
035
036
037 - Stored
038 - Stored
039
040
041
042
043
044
045
046 - withdrawn
047
048
049
050 - Stored
051
052 - Stored
053
054
055
056
057
058
059 - Scrapped
060
061
062
063
064 - Stored
065
066 - Stored
067
068
069
070
071
072
073
074
075
076
077
078
079
080
081
082
083
084
085
086
087
088 - Stored
089
090
091
092
093 - Stored
094
095
096 - Stored

Class 143
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613 - Scrapped
614
615 - Scrapped
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625

Class 144 - All units stabled at Neville Hill.
001
002
003
004
005
006
007
008
009
010
011
012 - 144 Evolution has full PRM modifications.
013
014
015
016
017
018
019
020
021
022
023

I'll try and keep the list updated.

List updated as of Saturday 26th October 2019. Its becoming a little more colourful now on the class 142 front. If there are any changes please keep me updated and I'll update the list.

Karl · 27 Oct 2019

anamyd said:
Why has your list only got 142s on it, and only mentions two withdrawn in 1991 and 1999...?

I'm not up to date with withdrawals etc.

simon7929 · 27 Oct 2019

Not sure about 21. It was out in service last Thursday but may have returned to store status. But 22 was around Middlesbrough yesterday and seems to be back in regular service along with 046.

WVL14 · 27 Oct 2019

Stopped Pacers:
.
142005 is shown at Newton Heath X/STO (stored) status.
.
All the following units are shown at Heaton in T/TFR 'transfer' status:-
142009 arr 18-10-19.
142015 arr 12-10-19.
142016 arr 08-10-19.
142021 arr 25-10-19.
142025 arr 18-09-19.
142037 arr 20-10-19.
142038 arr 22-10-19.
142050 arr 15-10-19.
142052 arr 18-10-19.
142064 arr 21-10-19.
142066 arr 04-09-19.
142088 arr 18-10-19.
142093 arr 20-10-19
142096 arr 17-10-19.
.
All other Northern 142s have worked within the last 72 hours.
.
Also shown at Heaton in 'transfer' status are:
144005 arr 21-10-19
144016 arr 21-10-19.
.
Some 144s which have not worked for a few days are:
144006 at Neville Hill not worked since 24-10-19
144010 at Neville Hill not worked since 24-10-19
144017 at Neville Hill not worked since 22-10-19
144022 at Neville Hill not worked since 10-10-19
.
Hope that helps.
.

simon7929 · 27 Oct 2019

Number 66 seems to be off the list.

WVL14 · 27 Oct 2019

simon7929 said:
Number 66 seems to be off the list.

.
Apologies. I don't know how I missed that one. I even crossed it off on my list as was working through them despite having it showing as being at Heaton since 04-09-19.
Shall update that list
.

jaketaylor · 27 Oct 2019

I’lll be travelling to Bishop Auckland on Tuesday afternoon, am I more likely to get a pacer or sprinter?

sprinterguy · 31 Oct 2019

RAIL are reporting that the Rail Minister has announced "definitive" dates for the final withdrawal of Northern's Pacers:

11 class 142s are expected to still be in service on 01/01/2020, with the last withdrawn on 17/02/2020.
23 class 144s are expected to still be in service on 01/01/2020, with the last withdrawn on 17/05/2020.

Anybody care to place any bets? :lol:

Not least the idea that whittling down the class 142 fleet to eleven operational examples over the next two months seems a tad optimistic.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...drawals?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Minister quotes definitive dates for final Northern Pacer withdrawals
31/10/2019 in Network

Class 142 Pacers are expected to be withdrawn by Northern by February 17 2020, with all the ‘144s’ out of service by May 17 2020, according to Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris.

Responding to a Commons Written Question from Dan Jarvis (Labour, Barnsley Central) about delays to the removal of Pacers from service, Heaton-Harris said: “Northern retired the first of its 102 Pacers in August and it plans to remove two-thirds by December 2019.

“Northern advises that, subject to receiving appropriate dispensation, up to 34 (11 Class 142 and 23 Class 144) Pacers will remain in the fleet for a short time into 2020, to cover the delay in delivery of new trains into the franchise.

“If these trains were not allowed to continue in the fleet, then a large number of services would need to be cancelled, causing disruption for passengers across the North.”

For the FULL story, read RAIL 891, published on November 6, and available digitally on Android, iPad and Kindle from November 2.

NoMorePacers · 31 Oct 2019

sprinterguy said:
RAIL are reporting that the Rail Minister has announced "definitive" dates for the final withdrawal of Northern's Pacers:

11 class 142s are expected to still be in service on 01/01/2020, with the last withdrawn on 17/02/2020.
23 class 144s are expected to still be in service on 01/01/2020, with the last withdrawn on 17/05/2020.

Anybody care to place any bets? Not least the idea that whittling down the class 142 fleet to eleven operational examples over the next two months seems a tad optimistic.

Considering none have actually been withdrawn yet, I would bet on the whole fleet still being in service come the new year.

sd0733 · 31 Oct 2019

NoMorePacers said:
Considering none have actually been withdrawn yet, I would bet on the whole fleet still being in service come the new year.

At least 005 has been withdrawn and others not used for weeks if not months now so that's not going to be the case.

NoMorePacers · 31 Oct 2019

sd0733 said:
At least 005 has been withdrawn and others not used for weeks if not months now so that's not going to be the case.

As far as I'm aware, 005 was brought back when 007 had an engine failure. The withdrawal was just a publicity stunt.

Besides, it was only put into warm storage. Which is hardly a withdrawal from traffic.

61653 HTAFC · 31 Oct 2019

NoMorePacers said:
As far as I'm aware, 005 was brought back when 007 had an engine failure. The withdrawal was just a publicity stunt.

Besides, it was only put into warm storage. Which is hardly a withdrawal from traffic.

It was reported as being stripped of parts, so I'm skeptical of it's return until there's photographic evidence.

Llama · 31 Oct 2019

005 hasn't been out in service since its 'retirement day', despite the rumours.

156420 · 31 Oct 2019

NoMorePacers said:
As far as I'm aware, 005 was brought back when 007 had an engine failure. The withdrawal was just a publicity stunt.

Besides, it was only put into warm storage. Which is hardly a withdrawal from traffic.

Complete nonsense, sorry. 142007 has been out and about recently. Even 142054 which had to be fitted with a skate out of Lime Street recently has returned to service.

Paul_10 · 31 Oct 2019

I do despice that term rumour(s) in the railway world, its all you hear on these forums and Facebook groups. Glad the myth of 142005 has been put to bed!

As sprinterguy says, it's worth a bet against these dates being met, apart from interest whether it will be met or not, I don't think its wise to put a definate date on anything. The original plan of pacer withdrawal dates shown how you can be left with egg on your face.

Also if we get a cold snowy winter, we are not sure how the 195s and 331s will respond to such conditions.

If my maths is right, northern have got around 67 pacers to withdraw in 2 months including the ones that are in warm storage. I think for all intents and purposes, 2 pacers are definately withdrawn in 142005 and 142066. Interesting times.

Karl · 1 Nov 2019

Pacers = Brexit.

Let's get in done!

Ploughman · 1 Nov 2019

I think it best that we regard a Pacer as being withdrawn when it actually reaches a scrapyard.

Chris217 · 1 Nov 2019

100

Ploughman said:
I think it best that we regard a Pacer as being withdrawn when it actually reaches a scrapyard.

100% agree with that

davart · 1 Nov 2019

Couldn't resist. Although perhaps Pacers will re-assemble themselves 'Terminator' stylee once scrapped...

Karl · 2 Nov 2019

davart said:
View attachment 70018

Couldn't resist. Although perhaps Pacers will re-assemble themselves 'Terminator' stylee once scrapped...

Post of the year!!! Nice one @davart !

Chris217 · 2 Nov 2019

davart said:
View attachment 70018

Couldn't resist. Although perhaps Pacers will re-assemble themselves 'Terminator' stylee once scrapped...

This post made me smile....
Thank you

Jamesrob637 · 2 Nov 2019

The Southport to Alderley Edge which I sometimes see of a morning has been a double Sprinter for a while now - previously it was Pacer plus Sprinter.

yorksrob · 2 Nov 2019

I wonder if they'll be salvaging those wooden ladders that all the142's seem to have. Would be a waste not to.

palmersears · 2 Nov 2019

yorksrob said:
I wonder if they'll be salvaging those wooden ladders that all the142's seem to have. Would be a waste not to.

Could sell them all to an antiques dealer, make a fortune.

Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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