Aviation Discussion

Techniquest · 26 Oct 2019

That sucks for me too, as I was strongly considering using that Air New Zealand flight from Heathrow when I actually find the time to book that trip. Still working on that, mostly down to a lack of space on the magic plastic to book it but also due to not having enough holiday time for it yet.

Grand Canyon will probably get done first to be fair.

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WestCoast · 26 Oct 2019

Air New Zealand seem to regularly undercut Norwegian on London - LAX tickets so that is just one indicator that it isn’t profitable to run services through to the UK anymore. You can still fly via the US to New Zealand as they’ll be codesharing with partners, including the route that intrigues me, Singapore Airlines Manchester - Houston connecting to Air NZ’s Houston - Auckland service.

telstarbox · 26 Oct 2019

Quick question - do BA Cityflyer (economy) still give you a free coffee and a sandwich or is it M&S now?

Techniquest · 26 Oct 2019

WestCoast said:
Air New Zealand seem to regularly undercut Norwegian on London - LAX tickets so that is just one indicator that it isn’t profitable to run services through to the UK anymore. You can still fly via the US to New Zealand as they’ll be codesharing with partners, including the route that intrigues me, Singapore Airlines Manchester - Houston connecting to Air NZ’s Houston - Auckland service.

That certainly is an interesting route. Not one that I'd have even thought of as an option. Guessing it's 777s for Singapore between Manchester and Houston?

Royston Vasey · 26 Oct 2019

telstarbox said:
Quick question - do BA Cityflyer (economy) still give you a free coffee and a sandwich or is it M&S now?

Yes catering is still complimentary

atillathehunn · 26 Oct 2019

Techniquest said:
That certainly is an interesting route. Not one that I'd have even thought of as an option. Guessing it's 777s for Singapore between Manchester and Houston?

A359s mostly.

atillathehunn · 26 Oct 2019

Bald Rick said:
I stand corrected. What a palaver.

A huge pain that surely makes it an uncompetitive option against many other one stop options.

Royston Vasey · 26 Oct 2019

atillathehunn said:
A huge pain that surely makes it an uncompetitive option against many other one stop options.

I believe it is at least a fast-tracked screening lite for which ANZ continuing passengers are issued special tickets, and bags remain on the plane and do not need to be rechecked as per the usual first point of entry recheck for connection onto a domestic.

So it doesn't sound too different to the usual passport/BP check and transit security you experience connecting in Hong Kong, Doha, Dubai etc (where queues can be long) although I believe you do need to hold an ESTA even to transit.

FQTV · 26 Oct 2019

WestCoast said:
Air New Zealand seem to regularly undercut Norwegian on London - LAX tickets so that is just one indicator that it isn’t profitable to run services through to the UK anymore. You can still fly via the US to New Zealand as they’ll be codesharing with partners, including the route that intrigues me, Singapore Airlines Manchester - Houston connecting to Air NZ’s Houston - Auckland service.

The London route has been, literally, something of a vanity trip for years for NZ. They’re now flirting with a liberal scatter of US and Canada routes and interlining with United and Lufthansa (and even BA) to offer connections to the U.K. and Europe.

Looking at some of the sector revenues, though, I would be surprised to see routes like Chicago last all that long, either.

They’re too small, in the wrong alliance, and now they’re run by a man from Walmart. Irritating viral social media safety videos aren’t enough, I would suggest.

Techniquest · 27 Oct 2019

atillathehunn said:
A359s mostly.

Thanks for the gen, certainly makes going via Houston more appealing as I've yet to try an A350.

berneyarms · 27 Oct 2019

It is still the end of an era, as direct flights have existed between London and Auckland since 1963 when BOAC launched twice weekly services with a De Havilland Comet 4.

Slightly more stops though!

BA720 LHR-ROM-DAM-KHI-CCU-RGN-SIN-DRW-SYD-AKL CM4 FY 2

London-Rome-Damascus-Karachi-Calcutta-Rangoon-Singapore-Darwin-Sydney-Auckland

Quite a trek!

atillathehunn · 27 Oct 2019

Royston Vasey said:
I believe it is at least a fast-tracked screening lite for which ANZ continuing passengers are issued special tickets, and bags remain on the plane and do not need to be rechecked as per the usual first point of entry recheck for connection onto a domestic.

So it doesn't sound too different to the usual passport/BP check and transit security you experience connecting in Hong Kong, Doha, Dubai etc (where queues can be long) although I believe you do need to hold an ESTA even to transit.

I think there are two points:

1. LAX setting aside all of these commonalities is still not a good airport. DOH, SIN and HKG are world leading airports. LAX is a joke.

2. That ESTA. None of the other connecting countries require that pseudo tax pseudo visa. Indeed, I and many colleagues are now prohibited from the ESTA due to our work travel. There are many others for whom the ESTA simply doesn't apply.

Royston Vasey · 27 Oct 2019

atillathehunn said:
I think there are two points:

1. LAX setting aside all of these commonalities is still not a good airport. DOH, SIN and HKG are world leading airports. LAX is a joke.

2. That ESTA. None of the other connecting countries require that pseudo tax pseudo visa. Indeed, I and many colleagues are now prohibited from the ESTA due to our work travel. There are many others for whom the ESTA simply doesn't apply.

I've not done international to international at TBIT, only domestic to international, which involved no checks at all and was a dream. Plenty of domestic-domestic and international-domestic cross terminals which have varied from ok to dire.

The ESTA requirement is an anomaly resulting from the Americans' unique paranoia, obsessive vetting, institutional distrust of outsiders (and a mounting illegal immigration issue) and I agree is ridiculous, but that's their right to police their border as they wish. I am fortunate enough to have always had a visa or no issue getting an ESTA.

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2019

atillathehunn said:
2. That ESTA. None of the other connecting countries require that pseudo tax pseudo visa. Indeed, I and many colleagues are now prohibited from the ESTA due to our work travel. There are many others for whom the ESTA simply doesn't apply.

ESTA doesn't, I believe, apply any more specific restrictions than Visa Waiver traditionally did. So if you can't use ESTA, you shouldn't have used Visa Waiver either.

I believe the EU is planning to introduce its own version soon.

flymo · 27 Oct 2019

Still remember the first time I went to NZ in 2007, flew AirNZ from HKG-AKL on the LHR - AKL via HKG flight (NZ38/39 ??) and it was great. B747 "Dunedin" on the outward leg, fantastic crew, fantastic service and a great country to visit. On the way back, (can't remember the plane reg) our flight was about 01:00 and there were the 2 "London Heathrow" flights on the departure screens at AKL, one via HKG, one via LAX. Seems incredulous that soon 'London Heathrow' will be a sight consigned to the past at Auckland. Somewhat sad as these two destinations must be two of the furthest apart destinations at any airport, loved seeing the Koru at LHR too.

AirNZ are a great airline and I'm sure there were a loyal group of flyers but alas sign of the times, however sad that is.

berneyarms · 27 Oct 2019

Indeed - it reflects the shift on long haul service to the Pacific region from Europe away from direct flights to connections.

After this I think the only direct flights will be:

Air France and Air Tahiti Nui from Paris CDG to Papeete via LAX.
French Bee from Paris Orly to Papeete via SFO
BA London Heathrow to Sydney
QANTAS London Heathrow to Perth, Melbourne and Sydney.

Changing times!

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2019

berneyarms said:
Indeed - it reflects the shift on long haul service to the Pacific region from Europe away from direct flights to connections.

For very long flights this is not really a bad thing, I reckon - getting off to stretch your legs is something that has big value for the Economy passenger.

atillathehunn · 27 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
ESTA doesn't, I believe, apply any more specific restrictions than Visa Waiver traditionally did. So if you can't use ESTA, you shouldn't have used Visa Waiver either.

I believe the EU is planning to introduce its own version soon.

Your point may well be correct but it was not was intended. Travel to certain countries invalidates your ESTA even when you had one, used it, and still have time left, but in the interim travelled somewhere else. My line of work doesn't always take me to the good places and many colleagues end up needing the visa.

WestCoast · 27 Oct 2019

Techniquest said:
Thanks for the gen, certainly makes going via Houston more appealing as I've yet to try an A350.

I regularly see very decent fares advertised for Manchester - Houston on Singapore, definitely keen to try this unique route as it must be one of the most pleasant economy class trips across Atlantic. Plus I do like the A350 too.

I have opted for Singapore/Air NZ combo via Singapore for my trip to see family in New Zealand next year, Singapore A350 to SIN and then Air NZ B787s through to Auckland. I was actually tempted by Qatar Airways, they had good fares and was tempted to try their 18 hours marathon flight from Doha to Auckland. However, the chance to spend two nights in Singapore on the way back was much more appealing than the same in Doha!

methethpropbut · 27 Oct 2019

WestCoast said:
Air New Zealand seem to regularly undercut Norwegian on London - LAX tickets so that is just one indicator that it isn’t profitable to run services through to the UK anymore. You can still fly via the US to New Zealand as they’ll be codesharing with partners, including the route that intrigues me, Singapore Airlines Manchester - Houston connecting to Air NZ’s Houston - Auckland service.

Intriguing as well, since I believe SIN is a common stopover point to New Zealand as well? Imagine flying out via Houston and returning via Singapore, both times on the same flight number

WestCoast · 27 Oct 2019

berneyarms said:
Indeed - it reflects the shift on long haul service to the Pacific region from Europe away from direct flights to connections.

After this I think the only direct flights will be:

Air France and Air Tahiti Nui from Paris CDG to Papeete via LAX.

French Bee from Paris Orly to Papeete via SFO

BA London Heathrow to Sydney

QANTAS London Heathrow to Perth, Melbourne and Sydney.

Changing times!

Worth noting of course that BA Heathrow to Sydney and Qantas to Melbourne and Sydney both stop in Singapore (Qantas was Dubai for a while but they’ve changed it back to Singapore), however I know the definition of direct in aviation lingo does include “through” flights that make a stop. Qantas Heathrow to Perth is now non-stop!

I suspect the future of Europe to Pacific with non-Asian/Middle Eastern airlines will be select non-stop flights where they can charge a small or maybe not so small premium, there’s “Project Sunrise” at the moment with Qantas researching and planning non-stop London to Sydney flights. Who knows in 10-20 years we could see Air New Zealand back at Heathrow with non-stop flights to Auckland, the thought would have been daft a few years ago but now not so much.

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2019

atillathehunn said:
Your point may well be correct but it was not was intended. Travel to certain countries invalidates your ESTA even when you had one, used it, and still have time left, but in the interim travelled somewhere else. My line of work doesn't always take me to the good places and many colleagues end up needing the visa.

Ah. I believe in the past this scenario would have invalidated your ability to use Visa Waiver on arrival (the old green form), so this in practice changes nothing.

Techniquest · 28 Oct 2019

WestCoast said:
I regularly see very decent fares advertised for Manchester - Houston on Singapore, definitely keen to try this unique route as it must be one of the most pleasant economy class trips across Atlantic. Plus I do like the A350 too.

I have opted for Singapore/Air NZ combo via Singapore for my trip to see family in New Zealand next year, Singapore A350 to SIN and then Air NZ B787s through to Auckland. I was actually tempted by Qatar Airways, they had good fares and was tempted to try their 18 hours marathon flight from Doha to Auckland. However, the chance to spend two nights in Singapore on the way back was much more appealing than the same in Doha!

18 hours on one flight! o_O

Good grief and I thought 14h46m on SYD-AUH was bad enough!

2 days in Singapore sounds interesting, just enough time to admire the modern architecture and have a kip before heading home again. Hmm, yet more ideas coming to mind!

2 weeks today until I jet off for Tokyo!

Gonna be counting the hours soon, and a final check off of everything will be carried out later. I'd best actually make a list of things I want to do there today...

Mag_seven · 28 Oct 2019

Techniquest said:
2 weeks today until I jet off for Tokyo! Gonna be counting the hours soon, and a final check off of everything will be carried out later. I'd best actually make a list of things I want to do there today...

I hope to go to Japan in 2021 - please do report back as to what is like re practicalities of getting around, how you cope with the language etc.

Bald Rick · 28 Oct 2019

WestCoast said:
Worth noting of course that BA Heathrow to Sydney and Qantas to Melbourne and Sydney both stop in Singapore (Qantas was Dubai for a while but they’ve changed it back to Singapore)

The Qantas Melbourne flight (QF9/10) is via Perth, non-stop LHR-PER.

AM9 · 28 Oct 2019

Techniquest said:
18 hours on one flight! Good grief and I thought 14h46m on SYD-AUH was bad enough!

2 days in Singapore sounds interesting, just enough time to admire the modern architecture and have a kip before heading home again. ...

That's right, Singapore is squeaky clean and everything works perfectly*, - but it gets boring after a day and a half.
*Changi airport is a model of excellence, and one of the few places that should be so. No complaints there!

AM9 · 28 Oct 2019

Mag_seven said:
I hope to go to Japan in 2021 - please do report back as to what is like re practicalities of getting around, how you cope with the language etc.

Me too, it's the last major item on my current bucket list. My thinking is that an Olympic year might not be the best time to go there.

berneyarms · 28 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
For very long flights this is not really a bad thing, I reckon - getting off to stretch your legs is something that has big value for the Economy passenger.

You got off the flights regardless at whatever intermediate stop the flight served en route. There’s a difference between “direct” and “non-stop”!!

My point was that airlines which traditionally served the region from Europe are doing so in fewer and fewer numbers.

telstarbox · 28 Oct 2019

How much time would I need to allow at Edinburgh at the moment for an early BA flight, UK domestic, no hold baggage?

Royston Vasey · 28 Oct 2019

Mag_seven said:
I hope to go to Japan in 2021 - please do report back as to what is like re practicalities of getting around, how you cope with the language etc.

In general there is English signage and announcements on public transport, certainly in major cities. Good restaurants with English menus are harder to find!

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