A range of issues for the rail industry would be solved by the DfT investing in training a largo pool of new train crew, with a significant number who do not wish to work full time and are willing to be deployed on Sundays and any other times when there is a shortage of other available staff.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Why are Northern allowed to cancel Sunday Services seemingly at will?
- Thread starter Puffing Devil
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Therein lies a chunk of the problem with these negotiations. "We want to address Sundays, for the benefit of the passengers. Here is a deal for you to vote on, please note as a result we will be increasing your spare movement, reducing your PNBs, and at some point you may be required to take full operational control of the whole train and drive without a guard as a well'.
"Sod off".
Sundays in the week costs them so much they can't resist trying to grab some other terms at the same time and then the whole house of cards comes falling down.
This has been done to death .
Would be costly , and would be near impossible to retain competency on routes and traction covering the whole country . And every time a toc recruited for full time drivers you would probably lose a large chunk of them . Besides they would have to be contracted on a retained basis with commitments to work certain days even if not required otherwise they might also all just decide they dont want to work certain days .
You will probably come back and say "keep it regional" , in which case why not just resolve the problem by paying for contract changes of the regional pools of drivers that are employed by tocs ?
dk1
Veteran Member
That might stand a chance of working in fairyland but never in the real world.
Have you ever tried to see a doctor on a Sunday?
ElectroSoldier
Member
And in the last 4 or 5 posts you see the problem with Northern.
There are ideas to "fix it" but either nobody wants to spend the money on fixing it or when you get the money nobody wants to do the work.
There are ideas to "fix it" but either nobody wants to spend the money on fixing it or when you get the money nobody wants to do the work.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
In which case, just don't run any Northern Sunday services.
yes, with much more ease than a Northern passenger has getting a train on a Sunday...
Then you are better off than this area. I can assure you of that.
Apologies for the OT nature.
ElectroSoldier
Member
With regards to the bosses at Northern. I do wonder how much their hands are tied by their franchise obligations.
I know for instance that Virgin Trains said they had aspirations to add a second service from London to Liverpool, but how much effort did they make to do it... And if they did why were they stopped...
Its a diffucult one to judge because its hard to gauge just how much the government decides what they do and dont do.
I know for instance that Virgin Trains said they had aspirations to add a second service from London to Liverpool, but how much effort did they make to do it... And if they did why were they stopped...
Its a diffucult one to judge because its hard to gauge just how much the government decides what they do and dont do.
Killingworth
Established Member
In fairness to Northern, all their trains ran on the Hope Valley line between Sheffield and Manchester this Sunday. We've got used to it being unreliable. Ran, however most were late, and by up to 40 minutes.
Virgin over a considerable time period made quite a few aspirations that never came to fruition. 135 mph running, tilting trains improving cross country journey times & plans to run regional Eurostar are just a few I can recall .
Last edited:
ElectroSoldier
Member
Yeah I remember the 135 services... Didnt RailTrack put the kibosh on that early on because the infrastructure would never support it at the level of funding at the time?
Their Cross Country aspirations changed a lot when they realised how often they could be on time.
I dont remember the regional eurostar though
Their Cross Country aspirations changed a lot when they realised how often they could be on time.
I dont remember the regional eurostar though
As a matter of interest, how many other TOCs have Sundays outside the working week for drivers? I know that Central Trains used to be one and I believe it was carried over into EMT and LM.
northernchris
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 1,509
Leeds was also bad this morning for crew shortages. Over the past few weeks it's been an increasing trend in Yorkshire which I'm hoping is connected to the amount of training currently ongoing rather than anything more severe
Looking at t'interwebby thing, it appears to be half term in Leeds and Sheffield this week; surely that has something to do with it?
20.55 from Lime Street to Manchester Airport is cancelled this evening "because of a shortage of train drivers" .
This is the stopping service too calling at all stations, with the next one being at 21.55.
Rather pathetic if you ask me, and it's only Monday!
This is the stopping service too calling at all stations, with the next one being at 21.55.
Rather pathetic if you ask me, and it's only Monday!
221129
Established Member
So they haven't got a driver how do you propose they move it?
Bevan Price
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 7,343
Employ enough drivers to cover typical "absence" levels, rather than always choose "cancel" as the easy option.
There are enough trains along that section of line to add additional stop orders on at least one.
dk1
Veteran Member
If only it was that straightforward.
Not after the 20.55 there isn't.
The next train from Lime Street to Manchester on that line is the 21.37 EMR service, and I highly doubt they will want to delay that train by stopping at additional stops to rescue the Northern amateurs!
Ah, misread that thinking it was an airport (Styal) line stopper that was cancelled!
northernchris
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 1,509
It more than likely is a factor, as with the amount of training ongoing at both Leeds and Sheffield there's probably a high reliance on overtime to cover the shortfall
At the end of the day people can be selfish. I have been told a number of times on Christmas day that I have ruined someones Christmas because on Christmas day we can't provide a replacement cooker on Christmas Day because lots of other people also want the day off with 100% service from everyone apart from them. Adding in every weekend of the year just shows you how big the problem is. If everyone wants everything 365 days a year we have a problem unless everyone is willing to chip in........ and they aren't.
Quite. But not all the ones cancelled were actually cancelled. And some that weren’t cancelled were cancelled. A typical farce.
The 1000 Worksop to Lincoln (ex Leeds 0838) was cancelled on the boards at Worksop. Announcements were made to confirm this.
At around 1010 a 158 pulls in with passengers on board. It’s the 1000 to Lincoln. Started at Sheffield it seems.
Meanwhile the guard says the Gainsborough train that was on the board is cancelled.
The 1043 Sheffield stopper showed on the board as running on time but was cancelled.
Just seems like they’ve got a bunch of toddlers running the whole thing.
Grannyjoans
Member
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2017
- Messages
- 403
That is just what is behind all problems with this franchise. Lack of money.
If the money that has so-far been wasted on HS2 was put into Northern then everything would be sorted by now, from Sundays being covered to getting enough new trains to get rid of the undesirable types of rolling stock
Last edited:
156420
Member
But, but, it’s not Sunday!
This thread has been all about cancellations on Sundays, yet there are still a similar amount of cancellations on a weekday, so who can we blame that on? Traincrew again, for not working every rest day under the sun?
And there are some traincrew working every rest day under the sun at the moment!
- Status