Flooding: 26th October - Stafford - Stoke and the North West of England

chris_in_salop · 26 Oct 2019

Cambrian359 said:
All 5 routes out of Shrewsbury were closed earlier due to flooding! Not sure I’ve seen that before!

Looking back in my notes, the last time this happened was Monday 24 September 2012. It might have happened more recently though!

RailUK Forums

Mugby · 26 Oct 2019

Llanigraham said:
How about the definition in the Rule Book?

Not having the rule book to hand right now, perhaps you could tell us what said definition is?

Deafdoggie · 26 Oct 2019

gazzaa2 said:
A fair bit of rain over the last 24 hours but hardly apocolyptic. It shouldn't cause that much chaos.

The slightest bit of extreme weather these days (heavy rainfall, minus temperatures, snow, heat) and the rail system grinds to a halt.

There really has been a lot of rain in Staffordshire. Many roads were closed. A lot still are. Including a stretch of the M6. If an area floods, an area floods. What do you want them to do?

Ambulances were stuck getting to emergencies. If a route (road or rail) is flooded, it's flooded.

There's really little else that can be done except wait for flood water to subside An embankment on the M6 suffered a mud slide. It's not just a rail problem.

InOban · 26 Oct 2019

These intense rainfall events are always focussed on a narrow line along the front. Unless you were underneath it, I don't think you can appreciate what 100mm of rain is like. It is a prediction of global warming that these extreme events will become more common. We had one which washed out the WHL only a few weeks ago.

rdeez · 26 Oct 2019

Looks like the bi-directional signalling installed when Stafford was re-signaled is coming in useful tonight...quite the queue building up there at the moment.

I have family there and the flooding is really quite bad in the area at the moment from what they've told me. Quite a few roads impassable as well.

Bungle965 · 26 Oct 2019

Virgin have ended up in CSL2 Black tonight due to the weather and subsequent flooding.
Bad couple of days, yesterday there was an incident at Wembley which meant that services to London were suspended for a good few hours and now today with flooding.
Sam

tshanazt · 26 Oct 2019

Mugby said:
Not having the rule book to hand right now, perhaps you could tell us what said definition is?

Open following link and scroll down to Section 4. http://www.ttweb.co.uk/rulebmods/m/m3.pdf

Higginsafcb · 27 Oct 2019

Had a fun trip north on 18:10 Euston_Chester. Held at Nuneaton, and eventually terminated at Stafford where the Virgin Staff had utter chaos to deal with several train loads of passengers. Eventually a few services slowly forwarded to Crewe. Then an expensive taxi ride to north wales as no coaches could be sourced from Crewe.

Furryanimal · 27 Oct 2019

The line between Newport and Hereford is closed for about a week due to an embankment being damaged at Pontrilas.Hope someone eventually decides that they can run trains up to Abergavenny but TFWs journey checker suggests they won’t be.

30907 · 27 Oct 2019

tshanazt said:
Open following link and scroll down to Section 4. http://www.ttweb.co.uk/rulebmods/m/m3.pdf

To save others the trouble:

(4.1. is the instruction to drivers)
4.2 Train running
When you receive a report of flood water, you must tell Operations
Control immediately.
You must find out if the flood water:
• is up to the bottom of the rail head
• is up to the top of the rail head
• is above the top of the rail head
• is moving and likely to dislodge the ballast
• has dislodged the ballast.
As long as the flood water is not moving and likely to dislodge the
ballast or the ballast has not been dislodged, you may allow trains
to:
• continue normally if the water is up to the bottom of the rail
head
• run at a maximum speed of 5 mph (10 km/h) if the water is no
deeper than the top of the rail head.
If the water is deeper than the top of the rail head, you must:
• suspend the normal running of trains
• tell Operations Control and wait for further instructions

jfollows · 27 Oct 2019

InstantStation said:
Does anyone have any idea about Rail Replacement Buses tomorrow from Stoke to Stafford?

Fortunately, it appears that the line has reopened in time for services on Sunday.

"Yesterday, flooding in the Stafford area resulted in major disruption between Stafford and Crewe and also between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent via Stone.
Inspections took place overnight and all lines have now been reopened.
Some morning services may be disrupted due to displacement of trains and staff."

Residual problems indicated around Sandbach which, if they are resolved today should not have major impact on services.

PHILIPE · 27 Oct 2019

Furryanimal said:
The line between Newport and Hereford is closed for about a week due to an embankment being damaged at Pontrilas.Hope someone eventually decides that they can run trains up to Abergavenny but TFWs journey checker suggests they won’t be.

See Posts #27 and #28

iantherev · 27 Oct 2019

deleted.

iantherev · 27 Oct 2019

PHILIPE said:
See Posts #27 and #28

Abergavenny doesn’t really have space to be a terminus for replacement buses unless you shut the car park off (which brings its own issues). I would have thought Cwmbran more likely.

PHILIPE · 27 Oct 2019

sd0733 said:
There is a track washout at Pontrilas so the Hereford-Cardiff line is expected to be closed for 2 days according to Network Rail
Not going to help TFWs stock having 2 fleets separated for a while. Most of the ones trapped in the North seem to be 150s aswell!

Use Heart of Wales line which is due to re-open later today following it's own flooding problems

mpthomson · 27 Oct 2019

InOban said:
These intense rainfall events are always focussed on a narrow line along the front. Unless you were underneath it, I don't think you can appreciate what 100mm of rain is like. It is a prediction of global warming that these extreme events will become more common. We had one which washed out the WHL only a few weeks ago.

Except they aren’t becoming more common statistically.

43055 · 27 Oct 2019

Mugby said:
I got a Rail Replacement Bus from Stoke to Stafford this afternoon. It left Stoke at 1630 and took 25 mins. to reach Stafford.

I needed to get back to Derby and the only way was bus to Stafford then LNW to Tamworth and XC from there to Derby.
EMR hadn't arranged any buses from Stoke to Derby via Uttoxeter.

Not sure why no buses were arranged. Maybe EMR didn't want to risk the buses getting stuck? From Facebook posts it sounded quite bad just west of Uttoxeter with one village being cut off by flooding. Around Tutbury and Hatton the fields alongside one road turned into lakes in just 3 hours while I was out yesterday.

craigybagel · 27 Oct 2019

iantherev said:
Abergavenny doesn’t really have space to be a terminus for replacement buses unless you shut the car park off (which brings its own issues). I would have thought Cwmbran more likely.

The logistics of turning trains around at Cwmbran are very awkward. The signalling isn't ideal for it, but more awkwardly then that is trying to find units and crews when their availability will already be compromised by the issues across the network. For the minimal gain you're better off running the buses from Newport instead, which is what TfW are doing.

Robertj21a · 27 Oct 2019

43055 said:
Not sure why no buses were arranged. Maybe EMR didn't want to risk the buses getting stuck? From Facebook posts it sounded quite bad just west of Uttoxeter with one village being cut off by flooding. Around Tutbury and Hatton the fields alongside one road turned into lakes in just 3 hours while I was out yesterday.

Were buses, and drivers, available at short notice om a Saturday ?

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2019

43055 said:
Not sure why no buses were arranged. Maybe EMR didn't want to risk the buses getting stuck?

It's probably more likely that EMR tried but the coach companies didn't want to risk their coaches getting stuck. They're often small family firms and wouldn't be covered by insurance for something wilful like that - and lose their coach and they've lost their company.

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2019

mpthomson said:
Except they aren’t becoming more common statistically.

It rather appears that they are. Though it could be a cycle - we did have about 5 very dry years from around 2001 to 2006, and now we seem to be having a few very wet ones.

Robertj21a · 27 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It's probably more likely that EMR tried but the coach companies didn't want to risk their coaches getting stuck. They're often small family firms and wouldn't be covered by insurance for something wilful like that - and lose their coach and they've lost their company.

Very likely there were few drivers with enough driving hours left, coupled with a reluctance to work on a 'sports' and/or family day.

Trainfan2019 · 27 Oct 2019

I was affected yesterday on EMR. Roads were very bad round parts of Kidsgrove and risky to replacement coaches.

LNW-GW Joint · 27 Oct 2019

InOban said:
These intense rainfall events are always focussed on a narrow line along the front. Unless you were underneath it, I don't think you can appreciate what 100mm of rain is like. It is a prediction of global warming that these extreme events will become more common. We had one which washed out the WHL only a few weeks ago.

This deluge (not large by tropical standards) was exacerbated by being delivered by a long waving front travelling in a line SW to NE which was firing at the same area of the UK for an extended time.
The same front travelling NW to SE would have been unremarkable, with heavy rain lasting for a few hours only.

Llanigraham · 27 Oct 2019

Photos in here of the problem at Pontrilas:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50199254

Roads and rail routes remain blocked as the effects of heavy rain continue to cause problems across the Midlands.

In Herefordshire, part of the railway was washed away at Pontrilas, halting services to Abergavenny.

Network Rail said engineers would assess the track on Sunday and it was unclear how long it would take to fix.

Rail lines out of Shrewsbury to Welshpool, Wrexham and Crewe were out of action on Sunday morning.

Dozens of roads in Shropshire, Herefordshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire and Worcestershire have been closed due to floods, including many rural routes.

CHAPS2034 · 27 Oct 2019

LNW-GW Joint said:
This deluge (not large by tropical standards) was exacerbated by being delivered by a long waving front travelling in a line SW to NE which was firing at the same area of the UK for an extended time.
The same front travelling NW to SE would have been unremarkable, with heavy rain lasting for a few hours only.

Spot on. Someone once described being under a waving front as being "under a conveyor belt of rain" and that's what happened on Friday and Saturday. The rainfall rate wasn't particularly high, but was constant for many, many hours.

When the front eventually started to move off to the SE it went quite quickly, so areas further south would have had a few hours rain at most. In fact this one then started to break up, so the rain would have been lighter and patchier.

There are still some issues in Wales - Fishguard Harbour to Clarbeston Rd will be closed until 15/11 and of course the Marches line is out of action. Flooding is still affecting some trains in Yorkshire and Virgin have a lot of knock on effects still after last night.

ElectroSoldier · 27 Oct 2019

LNW-GW Joint said:
Crewe-Chester is also affected, and other places nearby.
There's a notorious stretch on the line just east of Calveley which suffers from field runoff whenever there is heavy rain.
After 26 hours of heavy rain around here it has eased off now, but there is still a lot of landwater to get rid off.
It will take a day or so for the rivers to peak.
It's also not that uncommon on the west side of the country.

Is the PWay cabin still at Calverley?
It use to be right next to a smashin little pub on the Nantwich road

Meerkat · 27 Oct 2019

Fishguard to Clarbeston Rd- how can it take over two weeks to deal with “unsafe trees”?

CHAPS2034 · 27 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Fishguard to Clarbeston Rd- how can it take over two weeks to deal with “unsafe trees”?

Depends where they are - may be high up in a deep cutting?

Possibly the slopes where the trees are has become unstable in the wet conditions and that needs strengthening?

May be other reasons too?

I'm sure the engineers know what they are up against and roughly how long it will take to make the situation safe for trains to pass.

Meerkat · 27 Oct 2019

CHAPS2034 said:
Depends where they are - may be high up in a deep cutting?

that doesn’t explain why it would take two weeks to cut them down!

Flooding: 26th October - Stafford - Stoke and the North West of England

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