Unfortunately-named locomotives?

341o2 · 27 Oct 2019

The original loco on the Newlyn quarry railway was named Koppel until the outbreak of WW1 when it became Penlee
Garside's at Leighton Buzzard named their locos after racehorses as well, some examples

Brendan's cottage
Brown Jack
Lemon Cheese
Much Obliged
French Design
Sheila's Cottage
Scratch II
Torch Singer
Flush Royal
Fleeting Moment
Oxo
Gay Donald
Hard Ridden

And D9001 St Paddy if you are amused by Irish jokes

RailUK Forums

341o2 · 27 Oct 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
A famous historic destroyer that took part in the Battle of the River Plate in 1939.

Named after a Greek mythological hero

Calthrop · 27 Oct 2019

Cricketer8for9 said:
Guillemots aren’t the worst flyers. Not graceful, but actually pretty quick as they need to flap hard to keep in the air. Now Great Auk would have been something different.

Re guillemots, that was my attempted drift -- as you say, they have to flap so hard... similarly, maybe even more so, with their relative the puffin. Puffins in flight look quite comical, with furious action with their stubby little wings necessary for them to get anywhere at all. Everyone loves puffins -- but their name would not have been suitable for an A4: the species "does" bumbling comedy, not speed and elegance.

Taunton said:
Quite a number of the pre-grouping railways had names from Classical History, presumably because the senior engineers had been to traditional schools where Latin and Ancient Greek were the principal subjects.

Giving rise, I understand, to an ongoing source of some bother -- the artisans who made the nameplates were often semi-literate at best, and tended to misread the classical (and sometimes Scriptural) names, which they were unfamiliar with anyway in written form: so nameplates came out, and remained on the locos, mis-spelt -- I've heard of "Lagoon" for Laocoon, and "Goliah" for Goliath.

geoffk said:
Considering the link between music and railways, it's surprising that composers never featured as a class theme until the class 92s came along and these, in view of their intended work, mostly took the names of European composers (and writers). There were two steam locos named Sir Edward Elgar (a Bulldog and a Castle) but never a Henry Purcell, Ralph Vaughan Williams or Sir William Walton.

At the risk of coming across as class-ist (as with mis-spellings, above) -- I wonder whether in steam days, composers were avoided because the names might bewilder the less-educated-and-cultivated passengers ("who are these Purcell / Wiliams / Walton geezers when they're at home?"). Probably not -- the railways' managements simply pleased themselves as regards naming their motive power...

krus_aragon · 27 Oct 2019

341o2 said:
Named after a Greek mythological hero

Go back another century, and the LNWR had oodles of names from Greek mythology. Chimera, Charon, Diomed, Hero, Tartarus, Memnon, Zeno and Zopyrus are all names given to the first batch of LNWR Samson Class locomotives built in 1863-1866.

Some more oddball names from that batch include Terrier, Glowworm, Violet, Bee, Roberts, Ostrich, and Puck.

Calthrop · 27 Oct 2019

Taunton said:
A number of railways had locomotives which in 1914 were named after German etc royalty. These were removed quite rapidly.

Hearing of WWI doings like this, and @341o2's mention of the Newlyn quarry loco, always has me wondering whether the opposite kind of stuff was done in Germany (I rather have the impression that by the early 20th century, German railways had given up naming locos, anyway). Have always liked the tale of how in 1917, when our Royal Family got rid of their hitherto German name in favour of "Windsor"; the Kaiser remarked, "That's very interesting; and now I'm off to the theatre to see that famous play 'The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha'."

krus_aragon · 27 Oct 2019

Taunton said:
Mills, in his 1960s comedy railway book (one of very few ever done, and the very best) "4ft 8½ And All That" has a cartoon of the Crewe works naming department thinking up all the improbable names.

That's now on my Christmas list, thanks!

341o2 · 27 Oct 2019

Not exactly a name, but Bulleid's turf burning locomotive proudly stated it was "CIE Experimental Turf Burning Locomotive" It was not long before cleaners ignored the "Experi" part of this.
Another loco with an awful name is RH&D no4 The Bug, and for a time no8 was renamed Bluebottle by Howey after a problematic run

Calthrop · 27 Oct 2019

Yet more showing up here, involved with our regrettable falling-out with our German cousins 1914 -- 18. RH&D 0-4-0 No. 4 was by a German builder: John Howey spent most of World War I as a P.O.W. in Germany, which is reckoned to have a lot to do with his being un-keen on anything German; hence the opprobrious name he gave to the loco concerned.

Dr_Paul · 27 Oct 2019

Calthrop said:
Giving rise, I understand, to an ongoing source of some bother -- the artisans who made the nameplates were often semi-literate at best, and tended to misread the classical (and sometimes Scriptural) names, which they were unfamiliar with anyway in written form: so nameplates came out, and remained on the locos, mis-spelt -- I've heard of "Lagoon" for Laocoon, and "Goliah" for Goliath.

I believe that one loco with a classical name had its name-plate mistakenly rendered as 'Sampson', as that's how it's often pronounced, in the same way as Plumstead, which often gains an additional 'p' after the 'm' when it is said.

edwin_m · 27 Oct 2019

Dr_Paul said:
I believe that one loco with a classical name had its name-plate mistakenly rendered as 'Sampson', as that's how it's often pronounced, in the same way as Plumstead, which often gains an additional 'p' after the 'm' when it is said.

Seems to be an accepted alternative, as there are communities named "St Sampson" in Guernsey and Cornwall.

Calthrop · 27 Oct 2019

Dr_Paul said:
I believe that one loco with a classical name had its name-plate mistakenly rendered as 'Sampson', as that's how it's often pronounced, in the same way as Plumstead, which often gains an additional 'p' after the 'm' when it is said.

Feeling is got, that "Samson" / "Sampson" have been effectively interchangeable -- "spoken and written" -- more or less since forever; albeit modern scriptural standardisation favours the no-p form. The town of St. Sampson in Guernsey, is officially spelt that way: named -- I learn -- after the sixth-century Saint Sampson; who was named thus by his parents, actually after "him in the Old Testament with the hair". Said Saint born in South Wales; went on to do missionary work in Cornwall and Brittany (and the Channel Islands?).

Further, re nineteenth-century locomotive names weird and abstruse from the point of view of those lower down on the totem pole: I've remembered an anecdote about, I think either the London, Chatham and Dover or the South Eastern, which had a loco called Psyche. The nameplate, I think, was actually spelt correctly; but the operating staff, not big on Grecian-type learning, called the machine variously "Fish", "Pish", and "Physic". I can imagine these guys grumbling, "bloody over-educated chinless wonders who run this outfit, christening stuff with weird names which no sane person has ever heard of..."

ETA: @edwin_m -- somehow while doing my post, I missed seeing yours immediately before.

Cricketer8for9 · 27 Oct 2019

Re guillemots: point taken.

Lucan · 27 Oct 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
A famous historic destroyer that took part in the Battle of the River Plate in 1939.

Ajax was a light cruser, not a destroyer. On the subject of HM ships, there was a whole class of fast patrol boats (built I think in the 1950s) called the "Gay" class, one of which ("Gay Archer"), was berthed in Watchet harbour last time I was there.

krus_aragon · 27 Oct 2019

Calthrop said:
Feeling is got, that "Samson" / "Sampson" have been effectively interchangeable -- "spoken and written" -- more or less since forever; albeit modern scriptural standardisation favours the no-p form.

The no-p form is the one that I'm familiar with, as that's the form used in the (William Morgan) Welsh Bible. A glance in an online version of the King James Version uses the same spelling too.

(I know in modern Greek there's some ambiguity around 'mp': the letter beta is pronounced 'veta', and a 'b' sound is written as a 'm' and 'p' together. Cue restaurants in Greece advertising "roast lamp" to English-speaking tourists! I did start wondering if that may be a feature on ancient Greek as well, but then I remembered that Samson was in the Old Testament, which was usually translated directly from the Hebrew.)

Cowley · 27 Oct 2019

Lucan said:
Ajax was a light cruser, not a destroyer. On the subject of HM ships, there was a whole class of fast patrol boats (built I think in the 1950s) called the "Gay" class, one of which ("Gay Archer"), was berthed in Watchet harbour last time I was there.

That’s interesting. Not heard of those before.

One loco that used to make me chuckle was 47280 ‘Pedigree’ - named after the dog food company...

DerekC · 27 Oct 2019

The story I liked was A3 Pacific 4479 "Robert the Devil" turned out by the LNER to haul a Church of England special for a Synod meeting in York, but that may be apocryphal!

Calthrop · 28 Oct 2019

krus_aragon said:
The no-p form is the one that I'm familiar with, as that's the form used in the (William Morgan) Welsh Bible. A glance in an online version of the King James Version uses the same spelling too.

(I know in modern Greek there's some ambiguity around 'mp': the letter beta is pronounced 'veta', and a 'b' sound is written as a 'm' and 'p' together. Cue restaurants in Greece advertising "roast lamp" to English-speaking tourists! I did start wondering if that may be a feature on ancient Greek as well, but then I remembered that Samson was in the Old Testament, which was usually translated directly from the Hebrew.)

As Asterix and Obelix might have said: "Ils sont fous, ces Grecs" !

Taunton · 28 Oct 2019

Calthrop said:
As Asterix and Obelix might have said: "Ils sont fous, ces Grecs" !

Surely Tintin would be more appropriate for discussing Thompson and Thomson ?

Dr_Paul · 28 Oct 2019

Lucan said:
Ajax was a light cruiser, not a destroyer. On the subject of HM ships, there was a whole class of fast patrol boats (built I think in the 1950s) called the "Gay" class, one of which ("Gay Archer"), was berthed in Watchet harbour last time I was there.

On a similar note, there was the Royal Navy's Tide class oilers, one of which was Tiderace. The Wikipedia page says: 'RFA Tideflow (A97) was a Tide-class replenishment oiler of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Commissioned in 1956, the ship was originally named Tiderace, but was renamed Tideflow in 1958 to avoid confusion with other members of the class.' I've heard that this renaming was because sailors used to pronounce the name not 'Tide-race' but to rhyme with Liberace, the very camp American pianist who was popular at the time.

Lucan · 28 Oct 2019

IMHO some of the most unfortunate names are those honouring individuals or institutions that people might not have heard of. These names therefore sometimes come with long-winded explanations. Or with simply too much information. From a 1961 Ian Allen spotters book I find:

34090 "Sir Eustace Missenden, Southern Railway" [Having to explain his connection is a failure]
60847 "St Peter's School York AD 627" [Date really necessary?]
70048 "The Territorial Army 1908-1958" [Date range necessary?]
46165 "The Ranger (12th London regt.)" [Just "The Ranger" would have been good]
60809 "The Snapper, The East Yorkshire Regiment, The Duke of York's Own" [Just "The Snapper" ditto]
60835 "The Green Howard, Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment" [The name plate must have been the size of a billboard]

A couple more clangers :
62686 "The Fiery Cross" [KKK ?]
60099 "Call Boy" [No girl though]

pdeaves · 29 Oct 2019

Lucan said:
70048 "The Territorial Army 1908-1958" [Date range necessary?]

Yes, if the name was specifically to commemorate a half century. If that is the point, then it loses some of the meaning without the dates.

341o2 · 29 Oct 2019

An unfortunate name through no fault of its own - Cavan and Leitram no 8 Queen Victoria. When Southern Ireland gained independence, locally it was decided that the C&L might be as well, so apparently one afternoon the nameplates were hacked off the tank sides. A lengthy and noisy procedure, but no one heard or saw anything. Some months later, they were discovered and their reinstatement ordered. This lasted until no8's next turn to Drumshambo, where the job was done properly.

No9 King Edward retained its plates because removal was more difficult and the engine was not allowed on the tramway

Merthyr Imp · 29 Oct 2019

Lucan said:
A couple more clangers :
62686 "The Fiery Cross" [KKK ?]
60099 "Call Boy" [No girl though]

'The Fiery Cross' was taken from the novels of Sir Walter Scott as were the names of most of the D11 class 4-4-0s. From Wikipedia: "In Scotland the "fiery cross", known as the Crann Tara was used as a declaration of war, which required all clan members to rally to the defence of the area. The practice is described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott."

'Call Boy' was the name of the winner of the Derby in 1927. The majority of the A3s were named after notable racehorses. No doubt if a horse by the name of 'Call Girl' had ever won a major race it would have stood a chance of having a locomotive named after it.

edwin_m · 29 Oct 2019

Circa 2007 I was passing through Gloucester and I'm certain I saw a 47 named "Margaret Thatcher" in the sidings of the minor operator that occupied them at the time. But I've never seen any confirmation of this so maybe I was hallucinating. Anyway I wondered how many minutes that might survive on the railway...

talltim · 29 Oct 2019

Lucan said:
Ajax was a light cruser, not a destroyer. On the subject of HM ships, there was a whole class of fast patrol boats (built I think in the 1950s) called the "Gay" class, one of which ("Gay Archer"), was berthed in Watchet harbour last time I was there.

How about Gay Bruiser? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-class_patrol_boat

d9009alycidon · 29 Oct 2019

Merthyr Imp said:
'The Fiery Cross' was taken from the novels of Sir Walter Scott as were the names of most of the D11 class 4-4-0s. From Wikipedia: "In Scotland the "fiery cross", known as the Crann Tara was used as a declaration of war, which required all clan members to rally to the defence of the area. The practice is described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott."

Indeed, and the KKK took a lot of inspiration from Scottish culture and "fraternities". The rituals, the hoods, the whole “clan” thing. Although the origin of the KKK using cross burning is attributed to a fim called "Birth of a Nation" by D.W. Griffith’s, based on the 1905 novel The Clansman: A Historical Romance of the Ku Klux Klan. This included scenes depicting Klan members burning crosses before lynching a black man accused of murder.
There were (alledgedly) other naming quirks on Scottish Locomotives, for example heaven help the shedmaster that rostered any driver or firemen named McDonald to crew 72002 Clan Campbell. There was also somehting about the names of K4s that meant that you had to watch which two you ran in multiple

Robin Edwards · 29 Oct 2019

adding a D30 theme beyond Wandering Willie, how's about :
62430 Jingling Geordie or 62434 Kettledrummie
my favourite D11 62684 Wizard of the Moor

Also, in current times would 60043, 60536 and 62441 have been differently named?

Robin Edwards · 29 Oct 2019

edwin_m said:
Circa 2007 I was passing through Gloucester and I'm certain I saw a 47 named "Margaret Thatcher" in the sidings of the minor operator that occupied them at the time. But I've never seen any confirmation of this so maybe I was hallucinating. Anyway I wondered how many minutes that might survive on the railway...

No official name that I'm aware of. Are you sure it wasn't a nightmare that woke you?

d9009alycidon · 29 Oct 2019

edwin_m said:
Circa 2007 I was passing through Gloucester and I'm certain I saw a 47 named "Margaret Thatcher" in the sidings of the minor operator that occupied them at the time. But I've never seen any confirmation of this so maybe I was hallucinating. Anyway I wondered how many minutes that might survive on the railway...

Definately would never have been seen on a turntable..........

India Four Two · 29 Oct 2019

“Named after a Greek mythological hero”

True, but it is obvious when you look at the D50 Class names, that Ajax was named after the warship.

Unfortunately-named locomotives?

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