See my edited comment above.
Unless you know the site and the situation,how can you make such a comment. I suspect there is far more to it than just cutting trees down.
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Flooding: 26th October - Stafford - Stoke and the North West of England
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See my edited comment above.
Unless you know the site and the situation,how can you make such a comment. I suspect there is far more to it than just cutting trees down.
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RailUK Forums
I make the comment hoping someone might explain what is so difficult, not actually expecting “they can’t be bothered” to be the answer. If it was an unstable cutting then you would think that would be the primary issue quoted.
Andrew Holland
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My wife and I were on the 1930 London Euston service going to Wigan last night (it departed around 2025), we ended up being told iniitally the train was going to terminate a Birmingham by the time we reached (and stayed for the best part of an hour at) Rugby then eventually as we got underway again were told we'd be terminating again at Crewe. Changed at Crewe and eventually got back to Wigan at around 0110. Recall how we passed that flooded section at dead slow speed looking out the window we could see reflections of flowing water and one of the train crew pointed out, no that's not a canal or river by the tracks, that's a field! The staff were great, apart from the train manager who was bit too patronising and inclined to go on the defensive when passengers quite rightly took umbridge at his initial advice that "Virgin trains will not be providing any onward travel or accommodation assistance" followed by "British Transport police will be in attendance when the train stops in Conventry and Birmingham" - when he was reminded that Virgin Trains have a legal "duty of care" to passengers by a calm but firm speaking pasenger, he decided to contront the passenger and talk down to him rather than engaging with him reasonably and trying to reassure him. Could do with more training for this manager and could do with learning what "empathy" means, but the rest of the crew did a great job in a difficult situation... just glad we got home ok!
Elecman
Established Member
No long gone as has the pub
If anyone is interested, this is the Marches Line, at Pontralis. The picture shows the washed away ballast and residual flood water, with sleepers floating attached to the rails:
Source:
BBC News - Transport for Wales: North-south rail line closed by flood damage
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50199080
Source:
BBC News - Transport for Wales: North-south rail line closed by flood damage
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50199080
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Likely to be shut until the 5th November , (Hereford to Abergavenny) - so some serious damage in the Pontrilas area - with the Central Wales also blocked north of Llandrindod or Llanwrtyd , there is no effective North-South Wales service.
Interesting implications for freight and by default - Cross Country via Brum.
70014IronDuke
Established Member
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Are you sure? There were two through trains running today, according to RTT.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt
Although I agree, that is hardly an 'effective' N - S Wales service.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
So they ran - good. Was mentioned there was going to be a line inspection in daylight.
I feel a proprietal interest in these services, as I authorised the extra Sunday round trip way back as a Rail Passenger Partnership deal in SRA times.
Furryanimal
Member
Looking at TFWs journey checker they are running trains to/from Abergavenny tomorrow.Not clear if the replacement buses are running just between Abergavenny and Hereford.
For more info/pictures of Pontrilas, see here: https://www.networkrailmediacentre....-flash-floods-damage-railway-in-herefordshire
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Was the Conwy Valley line affected?
If you're thinking of the Davenport Arms sadly gone, now a housing development.
Cambrian359
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I think it was the only line in Wales not to be affected
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Cambrian359
Member
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It was reopened for use Saturday morning, where others fell one by one
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Goodness only knows how it got away with it.
Cambrian359
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There was a few breaks in the rain and we didn’t seem to get the volumes that was originally forecasted, luckily for the line
londonmidland
Established Member
A brief dry and sunny spell next week but quite a bit more rain is forecast by the end of the week for everywhere.
Weather models are already indicating up to a further 100mm of rain for parts of Wales over the next 10 days. With the ground and fields being so saturated, runoff is likely with further flooding likely.
Watch this space..
Weather models are already indicating up to a further 100mm of rain for parts of Wales over the next 10 days. With the ground and fields being so saturated, runoff is likely with further flooding likely.
Watch this space..
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Talking earlier today with friends living in Worcester where road conditions due to flooding are still very tricky , with river levels very high (ditto in Hereford) - such that there are great concerns when the waters from Wales etc trickle / or more likely run down in the next 48 hours. Local 2 mile journeys by road across Worcester are / were taking 2 hours. Bound to be an impact on rail routes..
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
The line was closed for a few months recently to try and deal with a problem once and for all
Somewhat belatedly is my account of a journey yesterday (Saturday) from Chester to Swanley for a model railway exhibition.
Our 7.17 Virgin service was cancelled, presumably stock was trapped south, as the line between Chester and Crewe was blocked. We were directed to the 07.12 TfW service to Manchester, a three car so quite cosy although everyone seated. No sign of movement, so we assumed the crew were late arriving from somewhere else. We spotted the Northern service from Leeds arrive alongside with the crew making ready for speedy reversal, so we jumped ship and Northern's shiny new class 195 departed just a couple of minutes late at 7.22; almost empty. Time at Warrington for a coffee and bacon roll in the nice new Costa on platform 3, before we were invaded by the contingent from the late running Tfw service. The 8.22 non stop to Euston had plenty of space for everyone, and the announcements on the platform were excellent at pointing the way to unreserved seats and reinforcing that it was Euston only. Save for some slow running at Crewe, journey uneventful and arrived at Euston 50 minutes behind schedule, very commendable.
Returning to Euston for the 18.10 to Chester, a few delays but we got away at reasonable 18.23; 5 car voyager (with 5 empty behind) by no means full, although no buffet. With the line to Chester reopened (subsequently reclosed), we were hoping for a trouble free journey. It was not to be. Held at Nuneaton for about 30 minutes owing to "signalling problems at Stafford". Told we would be proceeding through the Stafford area at 5mph and expect delays, before getting away again at line speed only to be held again just south of Stafford owning to "flooding at Madeley". Several Pendalinos in view on the loop and the Wolverhampton line. Told now the line was being inspected and we would proceed shortly, only to crawl across the crossovers in to platform 1, presumably a rare move. All the time the Train Manager was excellent, relaying the sometimes contradictory information to us in a simple friendly way. Finally told to disembark the train as we were going nowhere. We were faced with many hundreds of people, possibly over a thousand,milling around inside and outside the station with little or no information. I appreciate Stafford is not a particularly easy station for this sort of operation, but I do think the provision of a megaphone, charged and ready to go, should be at every manned station. A few coaches departed, one for Crewe and a couple for Manchester, and other people sort of drifted away perhaps to seek out accommodation. Still hundreds left and no more transport. After about 45 minutes and it starting to get cold we spotted an old single decker bus arriving already loaded with West Midland Trains on the destination. We were one of the few people that twigged, and asked the driver where he was going, and the cheery answer was Crewe. We set off with spare seats up the M6, most of this length is 50mph speed limit anyway, so top speed not important. Wild rumors of landslips on the M6 and the A500 being closed were false and we arrived reasonably speedily at Crewe. No staff to be seen, just a matter of fact announcement that there were no trains North and no onward transport.
Quick thinking took us to the taxi queue, we were surprisingly the only ones, and a taxi turned up seconds later. The cheery driver agreed to take us to Chester (for £60 up front), but was told by his switchboard that the direct A51 was blocked (at Barbridge as it turned out) and we would have to take the A534 and A41, two sides of a triangle. Despite going through some hairy looking flood water we got back about midnight, some four hours late.
We count ourselves lucky, I hate to thing what time some people got home , especially if saddled with luggage, children etc. That said the situation was developing fast, and Virgin Trains seemed to be receiving conflicting messages from NR. Just goes to show how re rely on these usually excellent services to make long days out feasible
Our 7.17 Virgin service was cancelled, presumably stock was trapped south, as the line between Chester and Crewe was blocked. We were directed to the 07.12 TfW service to Manchester, a three car so quite cosy although everyone seated. No sign of movement, so we assumed the crew were late arriving from somewhere else. We spotted the Northern service from Leeds arrive alongside with the crew making ready for speedy reversal, so we jumped ship and Northern's shiny new class 195 departed just a couple of minutes late at 7.22; almost empty. Time at Warrington for a coffee and bacon roll in the nice new Costa on platform 3, before we were invaded by the contingent from the late running Tfw service. The 8.22 non stop to Euston had plenty of space for everyone, and the announcements on the platform were excellent at pointing the way to unreserved seats and reinforcing that it was Euston only. Save for some slow running at Crewe, journey uneventful and arrived at Euston 50 minutes behind schedule, very commendable.
Returning to Euston for the 18.10 to Chester, a few delays but we got away at reasonable 18.23; 5 car voyager (with 5 empty behind) by no means full, although no buffet. With the line to Chester reopened (subsequently reclosed), we were hoping for a trouble free journey. It was not to be. Held at Nuneaton for about 30 minutes owing to "signalling problems at Stafford". Told we would be proceeding through the Stafford area at 5mph and expect delays, before getting away again at line speed only to be held again just south of Stafford owning to "flooding at Madeley". Several Pendalinos in view on the loop and the Wolverhampton line. Told now the line was being inspected and we would proceed shortly, only to crawl across the crossovers in to platform 1, presumably a rare move. All the time the Train Manager was excellent, relaying the sometimes contradictory information to us in a simple friendly way. Finally told to disembark the train as we were going nowhere. We were faced with many hundreds of people, possibly over a thousand,milling around inside and outside the station with little or no information. I appreciate Stafford is not a particularly easy station for this sort of operation, but I do think the provision of a megaphone, charged and ready to go, should be at every manned station. A few coaches departed, one for Crewe and a couple for Manchester, and other people sort of drifted away perhaps to seek out accommodation. Still hundreds left and no more transport. After about 45 minutes and it starting to get cold we spotted an old single decker bus arriving already loaded with West Midland Trains on the destination. We were one of the few people that twigged, and asked the driver where he was going, and the cheery answer was Crewe. We set off with spare seats up the M6, most of this length is 50mph speed limit anyway, so top speed not important. Wild rumors of landslips on the M6 and the A500 being closed were false and we arrived reasonably speedily at Crewe. No staff to be seen, just a matter of fact announcement that there were no trains North and no onward transport.
Quick thinking took us to the taxi queue, we were surprisingly the only ones, and a taxi turned up seconds later. The cheery driver agreed to take us to Chester (for £60 up front), but was told by his switchboard that the direct A51 was blocked (at Barbridge as it turned out) and we would have to take the A534 and A41, two sides of a triangle. Despite going through some hairy looking flood water we got back about midnight, some four hours late.
We count ourselves lucky, I hate to thing what time some people got home , especially if saddled with luggage, children etc. That said the situation was developing fast, and Virgin Trains seemed to be receiving conflicting messages from NR. Just goes to show how re rely on these usually excellent services to make long days out feasible
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While I accept some preventative work was done, I'd expect given the line's low-lying nature this would be more to make it survive flooding without major work (e.g. by culverting) than to prevent it flooding and therefore short term closures until the water drains?
Laurencew,
I've read your report and I count myself lucky. I was at Stafford on Saturday from 1700 until 1800 and everything seemed to be running reasonably well, if not exactly on time. The only problems seemed to be some LNW cancellations due to shortage of train crew (which is standard anyway) I arrived off the bus from Stoke just before 1700 and would have stood a chance of catching the 1656 to Tamworth but that was one of the cancellations. No alternative but to wait an hour for the next one at 1756 and I completely agree about Stafford Station being a pretty inhospitable place to hang around, having a totally inadequate waiting room and a very small and draughty concourse. The only seating available was outside on the platform, in the cold.
The real problems must have started soon after I left!
I've read your report and I count myself lucky. I was at Stafford on Saturday from 1700 until 1800 and everything seemed to be running reasonably well, if not exactly on time. The only problems seemed to be some LNW cancellations due to shortage of train crew (which is standard anyway) I arrived off the bus from Stoke just before 1700 and would have stood a chance of catching the 1656 to Tamworth but that was one of the cancellations. No alternative but to wait an hour for the next one at 1756 and I completely agree about Stafford Station being a pretty inhospitable place to hang around, having a totally inadequate waiting room and a very small and draughty concourse. The only seating available was outside on the platform, in the cold.
The real problems must have started soon after I left!
eisenach
Member
TfW seems to be running services as far south as Hereford on the Marches line. Presumably some stock was stranded on the wrong side of the washout at Pontrilas. Does anyone know how much work had to be done to get trains into appropriate places, if any, and how it was done?
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Considering the number of depots they have north of Hereford, and the fact that a member here has reported that they were using a 175 on the Birmingham service out of Shrewsbury this morning, it looks like they are trying quite hard to cover as many services as possible. However I do note that atleast one of the Cambrian services has been cancelled this morning.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
There would be plenty of stock on each side so there wouldn't have to be a mass re-arrangement. What is on the northern side will stay that side and what is on the south side, likewise. They would virtually balance each other out.
Last edited:
I was on the 17.30 Euston to Glasgow, the train terminated at Stafford, Train Manager advised that no onward transport could be provided and all hotels are booked up in Stafford area, was advised train would run to Birmingham N S and if we could get a hotel there to keep all receipts and claim back once home. We did this and travelled back up to Barrow Sunday lunch time with a slight delay.
Line convection. A narrow band of very heavy rain aligned along the front and embedded in a wider swathe of lighter frontal rain.
Yes they are:
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/resear.../uk-extreme-events-_heavy-rainfall-and-floods
https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/joc.6213
https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2018/heavy-rainfall-events-increasing/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3066443?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/documents/...+#15.pdf/8b8457b7-7bd2-49fc-888a-9b3f6785a40e
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Travelled from Liverpool Lime St. to Euston on the VTWC 08:47 today. The area around Stafford looks something like the Everglades at the moment.
No problems this morning as far as I am aware.
As an aside, two 195's were at Lime St. this morning. 195001 on platform 6 (@ 08:00 ish) and 195118 on platform 9 or 10 (I was half-asleep)
No problems this morning as far as I am aware.
As an aside, two 195's were at Lime St. this morning. 195001 on platform 6 (@ 08:00 ish) and 195118 on platform 9 or 10 (I was half-asleep)
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