Last conductor

When and where was the last conductor in the UK. Was it in London when the 159 was converted or were there others after that

Stagecoach East Scotland still use conductors on their Tayway 73 Service between Dundee and Arbroath. It's the last commercial "standard" bus service to still use conductors.

Still present on Blackpool, Sheffield and West Midlands trams.

Man of Kent said:

Still present on Blackpool, Sheffield and West Midlands trams.

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I think the OP was just referring to bus services given that this is in the Buses & Coaches section of the site.

I assume we're excluding the 9 and 15 London Heritage operations for the purposes of this?

What about the First Group ftr routes? (E.g. York)

Ianno87 said:

I assume we're excluding the 9 and 15 London Heritage operations for the purposes of this?

What about the First Group ftr routes? (E.g. York)

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FTR services are long gone.

Jordan Adam said:

FTR services are long gone.

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As is the heritage part of the London 9.

Just thought I would draw everyone’s attention to this previous topic. Only additional one I spotted during a quick scan was the Luton Airport shuttle.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ies-that-are-conductor-driver-operated.78384/

wouldn't include the London heritage service as drivers act as conductors. On the tram networks are they acting as revenue protection , or actually collecting fares? A proper conductors job on buses is to collect all fares whilst checking tickets

delt1c said:

On the tram networks are they acting as revenue protection , or actually collecting fares? A proper conductors job on buses is to collect all fares whilst checking tickets

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Yes, the full monty. West Mids has offered contactless payment as well as cash for the best part of 18 months. In Sheffield this was being trialled last month, which is a bit of a puzzle, as I am fairly certain the Dundee conductors already do contactless (perhaps Jordan can advise - see, there was a reason for mentioning trams) so it sort of smacks of Stagecoach Supertram trying to reinvent the wheel. No idea about Blackpool, but a search on their website for "contactless" has yielded no results.

bluenoxid said:

Just thought I would draw everyone’s attention to this previous topic. Only additional one I spotted during a quick scan was the Luton Airport shuttle.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ies-that-are-conductor-driver-operated.78384/

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They collect fares off-bus on that. I can't remember if one of the "conductors" travels with it, though.

As I think others have said, several of the tram systems use conductors though they don't control dispatch like a bus conductor did, they're just there to collect fares and for customer service, the tram itself is DOO.

Man of Kent said:

Yes, the full monty. West Mids has offered contactless payment as well as cash for the best part of 18 months. In Sheffield this was being trialled last month, which is a bit of a puzzle, as I am fairly certain the Dundee conductors already do contactless (perhaps Jordan can advise - see, there was a reason for mentioning trams) so it sort of smacks of Stagecoach Supertram trying to reinvent the wheel. No idea about Blackpool, but a search on their website for "contactless" has yielded no results.

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Indeed the Tayway does have contactless, even if it's a bit hopeless on their "crap" machines!

What's the reason for the conductors on Tayway that doesn't apply to every other busy bus route?

Bletchleyite said:

What's the reason for the conductors on Tayway that doesn't apply to every other busy bus route?

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It speeds up journey times, i recall it was worked out if the "clippies" were removed it would add 6 extra buses to the PVR.

Jordan Adam said:

It speeds up journey times, i recall it was worked out if the "clippies" were removed it would add 6 extra buses to the PVR.

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I'm sure it does - the question is why that isn't considered elsewhere (outside London, where the speed of touching in with Oyster/contactless has rendered it redundant)?

Surely the same applies to the likes of (1)4x and 192 in Manchester?

Jordan Adam said:

It speeds up journey times, i recall it was worked out if the "clippies" were removed it would add 6 extra buses to the PVR.

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You have to wonder WHY Lothian has never tried to bring back Conductors on certain routes? like the 25, 26, 44s could do some wonder especially along Princes Street.

overthewater said:

You have to wonder WHY Lothian has never tried to bring back Conductors on certain routes? like the 25, 26, 44s could do some wonder especially along Princes Street.

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In 2019 implementing touch based contactless has proven in London to solve the problem a cheaper way. As Lothian operate a flat fare the mind boggles as to why they don't do it.

overthewater said:

You have to wonder WHY Lothian has never tried to bring back Conductors on certain routes? like the 25, 26, 44s could do some wonder especially along Princes Street.

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I would've agreed 5 years ago, but i think with the advancement in tap in / tap out systems there's not much need for conductors, although there's still a delay due to passengers who prefer the "old" method of payments.

Jordan Adam said:

It speeds up journey times, i recall it was worked out if the "clippies" were removed it would add 6 extra buses to the PVR.

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It's also (allegedly) more popular with passengers - always gets good feedback on surveys and listed as something that would get more people to use buses....

mbonwick said:

It's also (allegedly) more popular with passengers - always gets good feedback on surveys and listed as something that would get more people to use buses....

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That is very true too. Although perhaps stretching a bit it's also arguably safer because the driver isn't having to deal with passengers or think about giving the right change, all the while for passengers there's a member of staff keeping an eye on the vehicle at all times- almost to some extent like a train guard. Although of course the main benefit has always been speeding up of journey times as passengers can just walk straight on rather than having to queue to pay for their fare.

If you want to see really slow OPO buses come to Malta, they can spend 2 or 3 minutes at stops whilst customers ask questions, however they are so crowded on busiest routes conductors couldnt collect fares.

I cannot see anyway back to the old days of ducks, increased cost with very little return, a decent driver can load a bus almost as quickly as the people get on, say half using passes and half paying, provided they all know want they want. It's easier for ducks to fiddle too, another reason the companies don't want them.
Back in the day it was the conductors job to pay for breakfast or a pint at the terminus.
Continuing to drag the topic further off, I did my ticket machine training in 1985 at Darlington with what we were told was the last conductor to be taken on by United.
United still had a conductor on the PTE wage rate, he had refused to train as a driver, we were %100 OMO so they put him in the cash office at Gallowgate.

In the 1970s it was quite common for a handful of conductors to remain after a garage or operator had officially gone over to 100% OMO, most London Country garages could field a few. Presumably these were staff who were either unwilling or unable to retrain as drivers, and did not want to take voluntary redundancy. Harlow had an agreement that if a non-farebox bus was used on its flat-fare Town Services it had to carry a conductor, as a driver operating in conventional OMO fare-collection-and-ticketing mode reputedly could not keep to the schedule. One particularly wonderful occasion I remember was when the driver of a coach-seated Leyland National on Green line route 708 was having trouble with the doors, having to leave his cab repeatedly to operate them using the emergency buttons. He pulled up at Two Waters Garage and went in, presumably expecting his vehicle to be subbed; but emerged instead with a conductor whose job was to be to operate the doors!

Ipswich Transport converted its last route (Whitton-Rushmere Heath) to OMO in July 1980, but retained a few conductors (and indeed a handful of open-platform AEC Regents) for a few years afterwards. Indeed scheduled crew operation was reintroduced not long after when one journey an hour on the Maidenhall route 1A was extended to Stoke Park; the new terminus had a reversing move for a while which was only permitted if a conductor was supervising from the rear platform. Otherwise the Regents and their crews would work scheduled duties on otherwise OMO routes. Official crew operation ended in April 1986 but crew operated Regents continued to appear in service quite regularly. On 2nd August 1986 the Regents and crews were given an official send-off when the last two Regents performed their final runs over the "Nacton Cycle" routes to Ipswich's south-east suburbs.

Northampton Corporation retained crew operation on its route 13 to Links View for several years after its other services had gone over to OMO, a reversing movement at the terminus being the official reason although crew operation also allowed a vehicle to be saved on the schedule and also provided work for the few conductors who had not retrained as drivers or taken voluntary redundancy.

Man of Kent said:

No idea about Blackpool, but a search on their website for "contactless" has yielded no results.

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Cash only on board, but they do M-Tickets & live tracking via a phone app

Geordie driver said:

United still had a conductor on the PTE wage rate, he had refused to train as a driver, we were %100 OMO so they put him in the cash office at Gallowgate.

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Wirewiper said:

In the 1970s it was quite common for a handful of conductors to remain after a garage or operator had officially gone over to 100% OMO, most London Country garages could field a few. Presumably these were staff who were either unwilling or unable to retrain as drivers, and did not want to take voluntary redundancy.

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United Automobile still retained conductors until October 1986 at their Redcar depot. The local TGWU branch were militant and refused to accept OMO deckers under any circumstances so they were incrementally replaced by Leyland Nationals until only a pair of VRs survived til deregulation.

Derby City Transport must have had some conductors still in 1985 (despite going OPO well before that) because I remember arguing with one about whether I was entitled to a child fare ticket...

What about the 'conductors' (albeit non fare collecting) on borisbus services. They disappeared in 2016.

Other than that it'd have been the 2005 withdrawals surely?

Tom B said:

What about the 'conductors' (albeit non fare collecting) on borisbus services. They disappeared in 2016.

Other than that it'd have been the 2005 withdrawals surely?

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Their official name, as per their contracts, was Customer Assistants. On the first route on which they appeared, the 38, I believe drivers acted as C.A.s before the recruitment process bagan.

delt1c said:

When and where was the last conductor in the UK. Was it in London when the 159 was converted or were there others after that

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I'm not sure what year that was, but York had them between around 2006-2012 on the number 4 "ftr" route. They then went to Leeds.

delt1c said:

wouldn't include the London heritage service as drivers act as conductors. On the tram networks are they acting as revenue protection , or actually collecting fares? A proper conductors job on buses is to collect all fares whilst checking tickets

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On the heritage routes they are still "collecting fares" though, you tap your Oyster on the readers they bring around.