No Break of Journey -Restriction Code 5F

I am planning travel from Windsor and Eton Central (WNC) to Taynuilt (TAY) and National Rail gives four iteneraries per day:

0959 WNC -> 1919 TAY £178.40
1059 WNC -> 2100 TAY £178.40
1800 WNC -> 1102 TAY £178.40 (next day - overnight on sleeper, so not including sleeper supplement)
2346 WNC -> 1504 TAY £219.50 (next day - overnight in London)

National Rail warns me that multiple tickets may be needed for the journey (presumably for the last train of the day) which is fair enough, and I am assuming that is for the last train of the day.

I would prefer to overnight in Glasgow and do the trip over two days, but looking on brfares for the ticket and restrictions I am told that the Via London off peak single fare is restriction code 5F with the note "Break of journey is not permitted on the Outward journey, except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities."

Am I allowed to get a later train from Windsor and have an overnight in Glasgow despite the restriction code, or am I required to follow one of the itineraries?

Thanks

I find it absurd that a journey of such distance could have a break of journey restriction but in any event, if you rock up at Glasgow Central or Queen Street after the last train to Taynuilt has gone it would be difficult to enforce such a rule. I also have serious doubts whether there was ever any intention to bar break of journey in this way for such journeys - it's really what the overnight break of journey bit is there for.

For context, 5F is the restriction code applied to Virgin-priced off-peak tickets between London and stations north of Preston. These have more generous time restrictions than those between London and Preston, so the purpose of the break of journey restriction appears to be to prevent people starting/ending short on such tickets to avoid having to pay an Anytime fare between London and Preston (or intermediate stations).

If you break your journey overnight in Glasgow you are clearly not trying to avoid a higher fare in this way so I would hope a pragmatic approach would be taken and allow you to do this.

Thanks for this. I was rather surprised about the lack of an overnight break of journey given the length of the journey. As I am going up for a funeral, I don't want the additional bother of hoping a pragmatic approach will be taken, so will be getting two tickets - one to Glasgow and another to Taynuilt, even though this is more expensive.

I also don't want to get the first train of the day from Glasgow so would not be continuing at the first opportunity.

Are you making a return journey or is it just one way?

It'll be a return starting the day after, but on the way back I will be starting short at Cardross.

So I assume you are looking at the Off Peak Return then, rather then the single.

I personally would travel up as far as Glasgow and recommence travel the following day. It doesn't need to be the first train of the day, it could even be in the afternoon.

Simply explain to the guard on the Scotrail service you started your journey in Windsor the night before (you can show your seat reservation for the Euston to Glasgow service) and you're finishing your journey off having slept the night in Glasgow.

I really do not think you will have any problems and Scotrail guards are very decent.

AFAIAA if you are unable to complete your journey in one day you can complete it on the following. This is not regarded by some as a break of journey per se. You do not have to go as far as possible on day one but can stop at a point suitable to you.

You must, however, observe any time restrictions on your ticket on the second day too - therefore you may have no choice about taking a later train on day two.

NB my last paragraph is a general point, for your specific ticket you would be able to travel on the first train to Taynuilt if you so desired - albeit it's at some ungodly hour.

When are you going? What is your ideal itinerary, and would you be OK with Advances?

Haywain said:

I find it absurd that a journey of such distance could have a break of journey restriction but in any event, if you rock up at Glasgow Central or Queen Street after the last train to Taynuilt has gone it would be difficult to enforce such a rule. I also have serious doubts whether there was ever any intention to bar break of journey in this way for such journeys - it's really what the overnight break of journey bit is there for.

Click to expand...

I completely agree.

However break of journey restrictions cannot be enforced by booking engines (not least because an overnight stay doesn't count as a BOJ, nor does changing trains, or even changing stations and having a 3 course meal at a station pub); what is happening is the ticket is considered to have expired at 0429 the next morning. Because that's what the data says. Even though the rules allow you to break your journey overnight in Glasgow and knowledgeable ticket office or on train staff could confirm that and issue an itinerary.

In effect, the rail industry is forcing booking sites to mis-sell tickets. They're just hoping no-one is going to take this matter to court. Well, they're probably right on this one, but I think they're going to get a nasty shock at some point as they can't keep breaking consumer laws forever and always get away with it...

Thanks to everyone for their help. I have tried at both Windsor and Eton Central and Riverside to get an itinerary, buy tickets and book seats.

Central told me that I could complete the journey if I started late but couldn't book seats for me because they couldn't connect to the booking system.
Riverside said that they wouldn't sell me the tickets because they couldn't produce an itinerary and it sounded like they were using the same system as the public see.

I suspect that I would get a 'computer says no' error when trying to pass the barriers at Queen Street on the second day of travel.

With a bit of searching I found the ATOC retail brief (which may be out of date) at https://www.atoctravelagents.org/cl...il Brief - Phase 2 - Travel Agents 290708.pdf which suggests at 3.1.2 that overnight break of journey is an unrestricted right as opposed to break of journey which may be restricted. The Conditions of Travel just suggest at 16.1 that any break of journey can be restricted for off peak tickets.

The difference between a direct ticket and splitting in Glasgow is only £14 but it is the principle of the thing that gets me.

rob.rjt said:

I am planning travel from Windsor and Eton Central (WNC) to Taynuilt (TAY) and National Rail gives four iteneraries per day:

0959 WNC -> 1919 TAY £178.40
1059 WNC -> 2100 TAY £178.40
1800 WNC -> 1102 TAY £178.40 (next day - overnight on sleeper, so not including sleeper supplement)
2346 WNC -> 1504 TAY £219.50 (next day - overnight in London)

National Rail warns me that multiple tickets may be needed for the journey (presumably for the last train of the day) which is fair enough, and I am assuming that is for the last train of the day.

Click to expand...

I see that warning too, but it doesn't seem to be borne out by the fares it then goes on to suggest. £178.40 is the price of an Off-Peak Single from WNC to TAY, and £219.50 is an Anytime Single - necessary because the 05:31 train from Euston to Glasgow Central is not valid on the Off-Peak Single due to the morning time restriction.