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Stations that should have their platforms renumbered

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Greybeard33

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I only heard the announcement for the Chester train I'm afraid. For some reason the Manchester train wasn't announced at all!
At most other stations on the Mid Cheshire line, P1 is Manchester-bound and P2 is Chester-bound. Maybe the announcement system was configured on the assumption that Navigation Road is a normal two platform station, so it tries to announce the Manchester trains through non-existent speakers on "Platform 1"?!
 
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SteveyBee131

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8 platforms at one time. The original station front is a fragment on platform 4. A trainshed covered platforms 1 and 2 as at Beverley with a short bay at the Hull end. Such were the flows of people in the summer that two extra platforms and a bay were built in front of the station in 1912. This allowed better passenger flow and created pairs of up and down platforms to deal with the immense traffic coming to the coast via Market Weighton. An excursion station (platforms 7 and 8) was built for long trains and connected to the main station via a footbridge. A new concourse by George Bell united the complex.
Today it's a shadow of its former self but the concourse is well presented and spacious.
Mr Pearson the last manager said he didn't want to renumber the platforms when 1 and 2 were abolished in 1983.
Thanks for the insight, very interesting ;)
 

61653 HTAFC

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Isn't Leeds to due to acquire a platform 0 soon, previously having had a platform W prior to the 2000 remodel?
W (now 1) was added as the first (or preliminary) stage of the remodelling, and the W designation was always known to be temporary (depending on who you ask, the W stands for West or Wellington). Subsequent growth has led to the need for another platform, and as they've now renumbered them in order, 0 is the logical designation.

I do wonder if the future will see Leeds gain a platform -1 and -2! :lol:
 

ijmad

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Stratford still shows no signs of being renumbered

It occurs to me that if they added 1 to all the Kings Cross platform numbers (to get rid of 0), Platform 9¾ would be in the right place, between P9 and P10
 

hwl

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Stratford still shows no signs of being renumbered

It occurs to me that if they added 1 to all the Kings Cross platform numbers (to get rid of 0), Platform 9¾ would be in the right place, between P9 and P10
KGX - Way too sensible despite the resignalling in the near future, the core issue is the sequence of work making it a bit harder.

Stratford - needs re-signalling
 

ijmad

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KGX - Way too sensible despite the resignalling in the near future, the core issue is the sequence of work making it a bit harder.

Stratford - needs re-signalling

Honest question, because I really don't know the answer - but why is there even a link between the signalling system and the platform numbers as presented to passengers?

It would seem more sensible to me to have a platform identifier used by drivers, signallers, dispatchers etc that would be unique, maybe even system-wide unique, and then just map that ID to a friendly 'platform number' for the purposes of passenger information. So 'Platform 1' is actually 'Platform Q-431' and so it can easily be changed to be presented as 'Platform 2' next week if it's easier for the passengers.

I guess maybe things are just not set up this way.
 

notlob.divad

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Honest question, because I really don't know the answer - but why is there even a link between the signalling system and the platform numbers as presented to passengers?

It would seem more sensible to me to have a platform identifier used by drivers, signallers, dispatchers etc that would be unique, maybe even system-wide unique, and then just map that ID to a friendly 'platform number' for the purposes of passenger information. So 'Platform 1' is actually 'Platform Q-431' and so it can easily be changed to be presented as 'Platform 2' next week if it's easier for the passengers.

I guess maybe things are just not set up this way.

Exactly. From my understanding, this is pretty much how 'gates' in airports are arranged. There is a relatively user friendly numbering system for passengers to use within the terminal building. But then when you start looking around the apron from the pilots perspective, to the untrained eye the numbering system seems entirely different.
 

YorksDMU

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I don't think anyone mentioned Bridlington yet. These days it has 3 platforms, but they are numbered 4, 5 and 6! I wonder where in the mists of time 1, 2 and 3 went!

(On a side note but slightly off topic, I seem to remember seeing some semaphores last time I was there :D)

Well, there were indeed platforms 1,2 and 3 originally, along with the excursion platforms 7 and 8.
Platforms 1,2 and 3 were closed down in early 1983 to simplify the station. A housing estate is now to be found on that site. The excursion platforms are just disused with the lack of excursion trains.
The semaphores still exist and are controlled by Bridlington South box.
Here are two photo’s from May 20th, of this year, taken when I was trying out the class 170’s.
349BF7BD-630B-4980-99DA-87BEAE6BA3F3.jpeg
 

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xotGD

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W (now 1) was added as the first (or preliminary) stage of the remodelling, and the W designation was always known to be temporary (depending on who you ask, the W stands for West or Wellington). Subsequent growth has led to the need for another platform, and as they've now renumbered them in order, 0 is the logical designation.

I do wonder if the future will see Leeds gain a platform -1 and -2! :lol:
As the additional platforms are imaginary, perhaps "square root of minus one" would be an appropriate number?
 

Tomnick

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Honest question, because I really don't know the answer - but why is there even a link between the signalling system and the platform numbers as presented to passengers?

It would seem more sensible to me to have a platform identifier used by drivers, signallers, dispatchers etc that would be unique, maybe even system-wide unique, and then just map that ID to a friendly 'platform number' for the purposes of passenger information. So 'Platform 1' is actually 'Platform Q-431' and so it can easily be changed to be presented as 'Platform 2' next week if it's easier for the passengers.

I guess maybe things are just not set up this way.
Because it’d be horribly confusing.

An example from Sheffield, since that’s where it all started. A driver approaching from the south with a terminating or reversing train can take any main route except that into 2C (unless they’ve got a train short enough to fit). That’s 1, T, 2, 5, 7 or 8 route indications but not D. A driver of a through train can take 1, T, 2 or 5 but not D, 7 or 8. The driver has to make the decision quickly, often sighting the route indication from a fair distance, without reference to any written material. Can you imagine having to make that decision if you’re presented with a random selection of letters and numbers that bear no resemblance to reality?
 

ijmad

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The only thing odd about Stratford is that there is no Platform 7. Used to be a bay platform between 6 & 8. Everything else makes perfect sense.

Are you kidding?

Platform 1 and 2 are at the other end of the station to where you'd expect next to Platform 12. Platform 3 and 5 are on the same island but Platform 4 (which is actually an island of two platforms) is in a completely different location serving an entirely different kind of route. There's a platform 10A which has no real reason to exist apart from there not being a gap in the numbering.

Most people walk in at the low level end, so we'll make the Jubilee 1, 2 & 3, the low level DLR 4 and 5, then the other DLR 6 and 7, then up to the high level where the Central line westbound gets 8 & 9, the Elizabeth line westbound gets 10, Central line eastbound gets 11, Elizabeth line eastbound gets 12, Greater Anglia gets 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 and the Overground gets 18 and 19. Nice and logical.
 
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R G NOW.

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It wasn’t a question!
What I should of said was that Cardiff should have platforms renumbered as 5 is missing. They could then get rid of platform 0 and number it 1. The only problem is that the route indicators into the station possibly do not have a five on them. The signalling has not long ago been replaced.
 

The Planner

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You will be able to add Coventry to the list in a year or so, as the new bay platform will be numbered 5 when its next to 1 and 4 is the other side of the station. Unless someone actually decides to call it 0.
 

61653 HTAFC

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What I should of said was that Cardiff should have platforms renumbered as 5 is missing. They could then get rid of platform 0 and number it 1. The only problem is that the route indicators into the station possibly do not have a five on them. The signalling has not long ago been replaced.
Isn't another issue with Cardiff Central the tiles in the pedestrian subway at the foot of each staircase to the platforms, which can't easily be changed due to the station being listed?
 

JBuchananGB

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Platform 1 and 2 are at the other end of the station to where you'd expect next to Platform 12. Platform 3 and 5 are on the same island but Platform 4 (which is actually an island of two platforms) is in a completely different location serving an entirely different kind of route. There's a platform 10A which has no real reason to exist apart from there not being a gap in the numbering.
Platforms 1 & 2 were the low level North London Line Platform numbers, so obviously they retain their numbers when relocated to form a new terminus for the North London Line. When the DLR first came into Stratford it came into Platform 4, which was a bay between Platforms 3 & 5. When it was relocated, it made good sense to retain the number 4.

The island platforms 9 & 10 were constructed when the original signal box was demolished, and the original no 9 became 10a. It is wonder to behold how 10 & 10a are used in the evening peak hour to get the down trains through alternating between the platforms. 11 &12 are on the line to Tottenham Hale, which didn't see much traffic for quite a few years.

Along came the Jubilee Line, and quite sensibly took the next available numbers, i.e. 13, 14 & 15. When the original low level line to North Woolwich was converted to the DLR, naturally the next available numbers were assigned.
All eminently reasonable.
 

ijmad

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All eminently reasonable.

Rail historicity is far less important than ease of use for passengers (commuters and tourists) at a station as busy as Stratford.

This seems to be a concept that's lost on much of the rail enthusiast community.
 

Oxfordblues

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I'd just had lunch in the wonderful "Train Bleu" restaurant at the Gare de Lyon in Paris and set off for Platform 9 for my afternoon train to Marseilles. I'd allowed plenty of time and I knew that Platform 9 would be just along the concourse ahead of me between 8 and 10. I was shocked to discover that the main platforms were titled "A", "B", "C", etc. So where was Platform 9? Fortunately I spotted a small sign "Quais 1-12" pointing down Platform F and ran, just reaching the train with seconds to spare. Apparently the platforms with numbers were beyond the main trainshed where the original platforms were alphabetical.

It might be sensible to number platforms either alpha or numeric, but surely not both. Ask an SNCF official and you would no doubt get a "Gallic shrug"!
 

R G NOW.

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Isn't another issue with Cardiff Central the tiles in the pedestrian subway at the foot of each staircase to the platforms, which can't easily be changed due to the station being listed?
I had not noticed them. Usually stations do not have tiles on like that, but it seems they did at Cardiff then.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I had not noticed them. Usually stations do not have tiles on like that, but it seems they did at Cardiff then.
Just bear in mind I'm not 100% sure I'm correct... I could be talking absolute rubbish! I just remember hearing something along those lines in the past.
 

Ianno87

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What I should of said was that Cardiff should have platforms renumbered as 5 is missing. They could then get rid of platform 0 and number it 1. The only problem is that the route indicators into the station possibly do not have a five on them. The signalling has not long ago been replaced.

Isn't another issue with Cardiff Central the tiles in the pedestrian subway at the foot of each staircase to the platforms, which can't easily be changed due to the station being listed?

I had not noticed them. Usually stations do not have tiles on like that, but it seems they did at Cardiff then.

Just bear in mind I'm not 100% sure I'm correct... I could be talking absolute rubbish! I just remember hearing something along those lines in the past.

Yes, that is indeed the reason for Cardiff Central having a Platform 0 - the listed tiling in the subway. Nothing to do with signalling.
 

Camden

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I disagree that c is not useful. Given it's tucked out of the way, 2c could (if done right) encourage people to walk to the right end of the platform to find it. Like platform 4c at Birmingham New Street.

I'd suggest instead that the As and Bs be switched round to enable this and platform 7 be renamed platform 6c.

For bay platforms having the c follow the number of the adjacent full length platform prevents someone getting to B and not being able to walk far enough to see the adjacent c.
 

jopsuk

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The island platforms 9 & 10 were constructed when the original signal box was demolished, and the original no 9 became 10a. It is wonder to behold how 10 & 10a are used in the evening peak hour to get the down trains through alternating between the platforms.

.
At every other station a letter suffix on a platform number would be part of the same platform.
At Stratford:
3A is across from 3, but at least serves the same track (doors open both sides)- it doesn't matter which one you go to, you'll get the same train
4A and 4B are opposite sides of the same island/finger. No issue there.
10a and 10 face each other across a pair of tracks. Getting between them involves going down to a subway and back up again. If you go to the wrong one in a rush you will miss your train. It is not logical.
 

plymothian

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Aren't most of the stations from Bristol to Taunton like that, with the Bristol/London-bound trains usually departing from Platform 2 on the side nearest the centre of the town/village the station is named after, where any buildings are located? Nailsea, Worle, WsM, Highbridge, Bridgwater are all like it. Yatton's platforms are the same way round but the village centre and station cafe are at least on the Platform 1 side.

The majority of stations on the GWML are numbered with lowest the down side.

Another one to add to the list is Plymouth missing (passenger) platforms 1 and 2.
There are 2 separate platforms 3 - the east facing is out of use, the west is the branch. Platform 2 is also out of use and split in 2 separate parts, and platform 1 doesn't exist at all.
 

sprunt

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An example from Sheffield, since that’s where it all started. A driver approaching from the south with a terminating or reversing train can take any main route except that into 2C (unless they’ve got a train short enough to fit). That’s 1, T, 2, 5, 7 or 8 route indications but not D. A driver of a through train can take 1, T, 2 or 5 but not D, 7 or 8. The driver has to make the decision quickly, often sighting the route indication from a fair distance, without reference to any written material. Can you imagine having to make that decision if you’re presented with a random selection of letters and numbers that bear no resemblance to reality?

I don't understand this - isn't the route selected by a signaller rather than the driver? What decision does the driver have to make?
 

61653 HTAFC

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I don't understand this - isn't the route selected by a signaller rather than the driver? What decision does the driver have to make?
Whether to accept the route given or not. If the driver is heading to Leeds but is offered a route into a bay, they'll need to contact the signaller. If they accept the route that'll be a meeting with no tea and biscuits!
 
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