bluegoblin7
Established Member
Worth noting that the failure was not related to CBTC and would have occurred with or without resignalling.
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SSR resignalling
- Thread starter Dstock7080
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Worth noting that the failure was not related to CBTC and would have occurred with or without resignalling.
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Since the last stage of resignalling was commissioned, the service on the south side of the circle has been notably worse. There are often gaps in the service westbound am peak of up to 10 minutes. Lots of muttering on the platform from punters.
Is this related to the resignalling or pure coincidence?
Is this related to the resignalling or pure coincidence?
Dstock7080
Established Member
Circle Line services are scheduled to be every 10min during peak periods.
Sorry I didn’t make myself clear - 10 minute gaps in all services, Circle and District. I’m not sure how issues west of Edgware Road could affect the District, but something is happening!
londonboi198o5
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Circle line frequency is every ten minutes
And district line Edgware Road to Wimbledon is every ten minutes
And district line Edgware Road to Wimbledon is every ten minutes
Perhaps I’m still not making myself clear.
On the south side of the Circle. Let’s say Blackfriars (as that’s where I was).
Gaps of 10 minutes in all services westbound. Ie no train for 10 minutes, District or Circle. Of course that means that the first one, often 2 are impossible to board. So it is quicker to walk to Westminster than wait.
The frequency there is, IIRC, 2-3 mins (24tph?)
On the south side of the Circle. Let’s say Blackfriars (as that’s where I was).
Gaps of 10 minutes in all services westbound. Ie no train for 10 minutes, District or Circle. Of course that means that the first one, often 2 are impossible to board. So it is quicker to walk to Westminster than wait.
The frequency there is, IIRC, 2-3 mins (24tph?)
I’ve not experienced this but can’t see how it would be related to signalling upgrade as the District line services on the main route (Upminster to Ealing Bdy/Richmond/Wimbledon) are not affected by the upgrade.
Also worth pointing out that many of the present issues relate to items at the boundary, so as the works progress and fewer system changeovers are required, reliability should improve.
Also worth pointing out that many of the present issues relate to items at the boundary, so as the works progress and fewer system changeovers are required, reliability should improve.
The only thing I could think of was if some H&C trains were running into trouble, they might be turned back short on the east side or even Moorgate, causing extended dwells west of Barking for the District, causing bunching, and some bigger gaps in front of the first affected.
I assume that stock / drivers do not interwork between the H&C and district on the east side.
LU_timetabler
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I don't see how gaps of 10 mins on the south side of the Circle can have anything to do with the new signalling, it is far more likely to be a District problem back up the line, which caused a gap to occur. I think it is probably a coincidence. I know there have been a number of signalling failures at places such as Aldgate, Minories Junction and Tower Hill on the old equipment over the past several weeks / couple of months.
It was the same again this morning. 7 minute gap heading west from Blackfriars - albeit ‘advertised’ as a 3 minute gap on the boards. It simply wasn’t like this before the Resignalling.
I have it on very good authority that reliability on the sub surface generally has declined considerably since the resignalling.
I have it on very good authority that reliability on the sub surface generally has declined considerably since the resignalling.
philthetube
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The circle is scheduled to run every ten mins, if you mean district line services then that is another question, these are not affected currently by the new signalling.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Quite easily. As I've pointed out before, you really should come and spend some time with the operational part of service control, because you really don't know what you're talking about...
swt_passenger
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The piece in the latest Modern Railways about SSR re-signalling progress includes an endstate frequency diagram, and it still shows a 4tph Olympia shuttle. I thought this had been permanently ended, except for the various start and end of service trains, and the possibility of special services during certain exhibitions.
Has the article’s author used out of date info?
Has the article’s author used out of date info?
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Sounds like it. There are no plans to reinstate a full Olympia shuttle at this stage.
swt_passenger
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Yes, I was fairly sure the decision post dates a lot of the online information that’s knocking around. There’s almost bound to be stuff like TFL board papers online, that include frequency diagrams that were drawn up before the Olympia trains were pulled.
LU_timetabler
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Also Olympia runs on weekends still.
Are there enough S7 units to saturate the Circle & District via Victoria headways with full end-to-end diagrams?
If not, we could very well see an Olympia service in the future, as a method to "terminate at Earl's Court" from the East (and thus maximise core frequency), without tying up the heavily-used platforms there with turnarounds.
If not, we could very well see an Olympia service in the future, as a method to "terminate at Earl's Court" from the East (and thus maximise core frequency), without tying up the heavily-used platforms there with turnarounds.
swt_passenger
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Forgot them, but they wouldn’t normally be shown on what is almost certainly a weekday peak period diagram, which I think is implied by the 32tph on the various combined totals?
swt_passenger
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Yes there ought to be, because there are intended to be no short workings at all in the peaks, eg at Tower Hill. Westbound from Earls Court there are 16 tph to Wimbledon, and 8 tph to Richmond and Ealing Broadway shown, ie the full intended frequency.
Very well! The depots must be reveling in the magnitude of maintenance flexibility at the moment!
swt_passenger
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I think there’s still trains away getting ATO mods, but yes they shouldn’t be fully utilised yet.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
All trains back from ATO mods but not all are yet commissioned for use. Fleet requirements are effectively higher whilst some units are VOBC signed off and some aren’t (as you need a buffer of both varieties). Some trains are also on different software versions and held back for testing.
No short trips planned to Tower Hill but trains will reverse at the east end at Barking. There aren’t enough trains to run a full Upminster service.
Sending trains to Olympia causes too many delays to through services on the west, there isn’t a plan for them to return post ATO, and as mentioned the weekend is nothing more than a footnote (and even then it tends to be 3tph, not 4tph).
swt_passenger
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Yes that’s true, I wasn’t really thinking of the furthest east end. That seems fairly settled in all the proposals with Barking and Upminster services increasing slightly compared to now, but not running the whole service through.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Just a thought, but wouldn't that cause an issue at West Kensington East Junction? I seem to recall that the line towards Olympia crosses the eastbound track on the flat?
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bluegoblin7
Established Member
Correct.
swt_passenger
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That was exactly the justification when they pulled the service. Which is why I was surprised to see it on a drawing in a current publication.
Dstock7080
Established Member
trains from High Street Kensington cannot go into platform 3 at Earl’s Court.