If this represents the sort of logic you come out with, then it hasn't given you a good grounding. You are coming across as a low achiever using inverse snobbery to try and drag those down who have achieved more than you.
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Is First Class too expensive and should it be abolished?
- Thread starter Mogz
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If this represents the sort of logic you come out with, then it hasn't given you a good grounding. You are coming across as a low achiever using inverse snobbery to try and drag those down who have achieved more than you.
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cactustwirly
Established Member
Except when that National Express is more inconvenient and double the price of the train!
I travel in so called "cattle class" anyway
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Except when that National Express is more inconvenient and double the price of the train!
I travel in so called "cattle class" anyway
I don't find NatEx is always cheaper than the train anyway, and it particularly wasn't when I was a student (late 90s) because train fares hadn't whacked up that high by then.
Megabus can be if booked way in advance due to it applying an airline-like fare structure where some tickets are loss leaders.
cactustwirly
Established Member
cactustwirly
Established Member
When I travelled from Leicester to Reading at the weekend, NX was like £46 each way! The train was £20 each way, or £51 for a Super Off-peak return, plus it actually goes to where I want to go in half the time.
Plus the train is a lot more comfortable, over my dead body will I get a coach unless it's my only option
Megabus don't go to Reading, and they don't go to the centre of Leicester anyway.
Failed Unit
Established Member
where do you draw the line?
London - Lincoln. 2 hours. Full IC
Cambridge - Brighton slightly more than 2 hours but commuting train.
TPE must mainly be a commuting railway. But it has first for the off long distance traveller. (Probably needs it in Edinburgh- Leeds route)
always a difficult one as poor stock does long distances.
Cambridge to Brighton is actually Cambridge to London, and London to Brighton, without the need to terminate two sets of services in a busy city centre. That it happens to allow Cambridge to Brighton passengers to make their journey without changing is more of a happy coincidence.
I would tend to draw two lines: where the average passenger's journey time is less than about half an hour there's no need for First Class. Where it's more than two hours, full First Class provision is justified.
In between lies a grey area where operational practicalities and particular market characteristics need to be considered. In general, a reduced standard of First Class (i.e. bigger seats, but few/no freebies - noting that I'd get rid of 'complimentary' hot meals anyway) is appropriate here. This ought to be modified where appropriate, of course, to take account of the occasional longer 'commuter' route or shorter 'intercity' routes.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Sorry I go against the group think on first class.
BTW I am happy with what I have achieved, thanks. I have a proper degree, am on my second career, have a responsible job, take home a decent wage, have my own home and have fulfilling relationships. I am cool thanks.
Except when that National Express is more inconvenient and double the price of the train!
I travel in so called "cattle class" anyway
Is National Express often double the price of a London to Newcastle ticket? How about MK to Leeds? I have never got a train fare as low as an national express price. Looking at Mk to Leeds: A turn up ticket on the bus at 16:30 this afternoon is £19.60. The same train journey at 16:30 is £106.35 and takes about the same time.
No. I went to university at 18. I had a mature outlook on life, had some "life experience" to fall back on and wasn't a cossetted kid like many students seem to be.
No First Class...? Where would I sit?
Tomorrow morning I'm off to Leeds from Stevenage in the rush. £75 First Class including Full English, Toast and Pasties, Coffee/Tea/OJ, no driving and every chance hassle free. Space to work for an hour in relative peace and comfort. And only booked Sunday. What's not to like.
Tomorrow morning I'm off to Leeds from Stevenage in the rush. £75 First Class including Full English, Toast and Pasties, Coffee/Tea/OJ, no driving and every chance hassle free. Space to work for an hour in relative peace and comfort. And only booked Sunday. What's not to like.
GrimShady
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Dec 2016
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Students should be nowhere near FC!
Pasties?
When presumably all the workers can share the same (second) class in socialist solidarity.
First class will be exclusively for senior party members and their friends and families.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
what on earth are you talking about?
What pastries though? I've not seen any. I have a better look on Monday.Pastries....but a good pasty works. Maybe not in the early morning though!!
Not seen any of this mythical fruit that's supposed to be available either.
I've had fruit on the train lots of times. Pastries is more likely found in the FC Lounge rather than on the train. Minor details...
trainophile
Established Member
TPE used to offer pain au raisins but I haven’t seen any of those recently. They were very nice, much more substantial than the current offerings of biscuits or crisps if you’re lucky.
I suppose pain is bread strictly speaking, so maybe doesn’t count as a pastry.
I suppose pain is bread strictly speaking, so maybe doesn’t count as a pastry.
CaptainHaddock
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 Feb 2011
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- 2,214
What a strange direction this thread has taken! Are people really willing to pay up to 50% more for their ticket if, in return, they get given a banana and a piece of bread with some dried fruit in it?
trainophile
Established Member
Well obviously the more comfortable seats and more personal space is the main factor, we briefly diverged onto the refreshments on offer, as conversations can do.
I paid £20 more for a FC ticket with Virgin from Lancaster to Euston, the upgrade was adequate but not brilliant. Although a weekday evening the vegetarian option was a bhaji wrap with sticky toffee pudding for desert and had a couple of beers. The seats were a slightly more comfortable and a larger table is nice but I can't see myself paying anymore over £20 for it, and if I wanted food a trip to the shop would give as good an experience in terms of catering (minus the STP). Maybe £30 if I was going London to Glasgow. The difference in price in walk-up fares is far form worth it though.
LNER first class is the best I've experienced so would be inclined to pay for that if it wasn't much extra.
LNER first class is the best I've experienced so would be inclined to pay for that if it wasn't much extra.
nottsnurse
Member
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- 1 May 2014
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On a network as congested as the UK's I see 'First Class' as an expensive (in passenger stock space) indulgence that we, as a nation, would be far better off getting rid of.
You keep thinking it's 50% more. And you keep thinking it's just a banana and what ever. First Class offers so much more than simply a freebie. Space, ambience and quiet to name but three. And I've rarely, if ever, spent more than £100 on a ticket (I travel a lot for work so I'm talking many hundreds of tickets).
the coffee is very welcome, but for me, the main attraction of 1st Class is the chance to have a single seat to myself
I should also note that I usually travel Standard Class. But once a year I do a 2 week All LIne Rover. And the difference in price between classes isnt all that much on those, so First Class it is
cactustwirly
Established Member
Not getting rid of completely, but definitely reduced.
On EMR, the 222s have way too much first class, and not enough standard seats:
A 4 car 222 only has 2.5 coaches of Standard and 1.5 of first; A 5 car has 3.5 standard, and 1.5 first and a 7 car set has 4 standard, and 3 whole coaches of first!
First class often carries around fresh air, whilst passengers in standard are left standing
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
My personal view is that a First Class ticket should be available for all Standard tickets (same restrictions, routes etc) at an uplift of no more than 160%, then I'd use it more often. However, it is probably going to have a greater effect on overcrowding to make First a high-cost premium thing and reduce the amount of it, which is the route GWR took.
Good point!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I would agree, reducing the amount of space given over to first class in favour of increasing standard class capacity should have a more positive effect on overcrowding as you have seats overall assuming first class is given more legroom and 2+1 seating. If you have a vehicle which can seat 54 first or 88 standard, my view is having that vehicle as standard is of more benefit than reducing first class fares to a level which encourages more people to purchase tickets for those 54 seats; going the GWR route to mind mind benefits more than the alternative.
I still feel there is a place for proper first class on long-distance InterCity services, but I think offering it on any suburban services is hardly worthwhile anymore.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would be inclined to agree - I would abolish it on all regional and commuter type services, retaining it only on IC/IR type stuff i.e. Avanti, LNER, GWR IC, EMR IC, GA IC, ScotRail I7C, TPE, XC and the very long distance Welsh stuff e.g. North Wales-South Wales and Manchester-South Wales (and maybe the Cambrian).
randyrippley
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Feb 2016
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Remove first from all trains EXCEPT open access services
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